If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[WoundedWarrior]

The Hebrew word translated “gossip” in the Old Testament is defined as “one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger.” A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information

Curse the gossips and the double-tongued,for they destroy the peace of many.

Definition of gossip: casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people

Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip. http://www.gotquestions.org/gossip-Bible.html

If you have something to say about someone, please say it to their face. I have witnessed far too much of this- two people publicly talking between themselves about a third. I wonder why it isn't against the rules.

Would love to say it to his face, but this is a public internet forum -- so it's not possible.

My issue is that this person has slammed several people with sharp words (and continues to do so) but then does not respond when his offensive comments are challenged.

Can I ask, Magenta, why do you criticize me for my actions, when I am attempting to resolve his actions towards me and others here?

Once again, Reference is here: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-before-they-spoke-tongues-6.html#post2221492 <-- I don't know how anyone can follow this conversation and think that Phil is in the right, while I am in the wrong.

 

[Sirk]

If you aren't part of the problem or part of the solution, then.... it is gossip.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

If you aren't part of the problem or part of the solution, then.... it is gossip.

Here's the key:

The Hebrew word translated “gossip” in the Old Testament is defined as “one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger.” A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information

This is not "privileged" information or a secret -- I am challenging Phil's PUBLIC posts.

Curse the gossips and the double-tongued,for they destroy the peace of many.

Definition of gossip: casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people

Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

If anyone reads the conversation in question, they will easily realize that I do not have the intent of building myself up and tearing Phil down -- but they will realize that Phil is tearing people down and I am one who is challenging Phil's statements!

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

Again, anyone who has understood the posts in question knows this is not the nature of the conversation.

If you have something to say about someone, please say it to their face. I have witnessed far too much of this- two people publicly talking between themselves about a third. I wonder why it isn't against the rules.

It is, however, against the rules to do as Phil does: 2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.

So Magenta, while I appreciate your concern -- I think your concern is unwarranted and I wish you would take the time to understand the situation, rather than continuing to argue as to whether this is gossip.

 

[Magenta]

*
WW: Thank you for liking my posts on this subject. I apologize if it seems I am singling you out, for that was not my intention when so many have been doing the very thing I am speaking against. I have nothing against you personally

 

[Magenta]

Would love to say it to his face, but this is a public internet forum -- so it's not possible.

You know what I mean, stop pretending you don't. Say it to him.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

You know what I mean, stop pretending you don't. Say it to him.

I PM'd him, if that's what you mean. He ignored and continues to ignore.

This is why I am now attempting to bring others into the matter.

 

[Magenta]

I PM'd him, if that's what you mean. He ignored and continues to ignore.

This is why I am now attempting to bring others into the matter.

I realize it is a sensitive subject, and I thank you for hearing me on it. PM is not what I meant, as I have nothing against people publicly trying to work out their differences respectfully between the two of them. That is actually a beautiful and inspiring thing to witness. What I witness is not always respectful or inspiring at all, as it often involves bringing another person in to vent frustrations and sling the ad homs. Please understand that I am not accusing you of this. It just breaks my heart to see it, and greatly detracts from what could otherwise be wonderful exchanges on how we each understand the Scriptures and why. Everyone can benefit from such exchanges. I must be about my day... be blessed!

Please forgive me.


​

 

[sydlit]

Just tuned in today, Sat 1:30ish, usually like to read thru diff.threads before posting, which can take hours sometimes, but I couldn't get past this one, since I saw my {purplepal} calling for civility. Glad it seems to have calmed down now, hope the dispute gets resolved as brothers in Christ and not as enemies of the cross or each other. Soldier on, brothers.....onward and upward. {homage}

 

[KennethC]

Wrong approach. If you want to know about salvation, read through your Bible (as I have) and mark every passage on the subject with a highlighter. Then go through it & see what is says.

The problem with those who deny "eternal security," is that they don't believe in salvation at all, but in a chance at it. Such persons do not even mean "salvation" when they say salvation.
Mostly, I think, they have focused on who gets to go to Heaven, instead of how do you get a
transformation, a new birth, a change from sinner to child of God.

So forget your questions. If you have a case to make, you do your work, you quote your scripture, make your interpretation, prove your claims. They we can look at your theories and ask you to
prove them where you fail.

It is a basic red herring to ask, "Well what about this, Well what about that?" Focus on verses that address the topic of salvation.

False statements like the bolded and underlined really need to be squashed and put an end to, because that is junk sayings that have been used and passed on for years now that are completely untrue !!!

 

[ember]

As for my gift: Several people have told me I should be a teacher or Pastor, but I told them I am waiting on God's timing and direction for something like that. For now, there are other things I believe God wants me to do so as to glorify Him.

and how do you see yourself glorifying your Creator in this thread?

I ask questions for answers...although it seems they may be without merit, I can assure you I have reasons for questions

BTW, when you gonna answer the last ones I asked?

see, if you don't see yourself as teacher, then you have to accept that questions are part of a normal dialogue, but actually, God Himself invites questions so why should we not do also?

 

[KennethC]

and how do you see yourself glorifying your Creator in this thread?

I ask questions for answers...although it seems they may be without merit, I can assure you I have reasons for questions

BTW, when you gonna answer the last ones I asked?

see, if you don't see yourself as teacher, then you have to accept that questions are part of a normal dialogue, but actually, God Himself invites questions so why should we not do also?

I know you posted this to Jason but I wanted to answer by how I was lead.

The Holy Spirit and the word of God both say we are not to be called Teacher, we are to be called and thought of as instructors in the faith of what was already taught by the Lord.

We have only one Teacher, one Father, and one High Priest not many.


1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[shotgunner]

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John is not saying that we don't have teachers or that we don't need teachers. What he is saying is that we can hear from God for ourselves and that we don't have to go through the middle man of a teacher.

God gave us teachers.
Ephesians 4:11-12King James Version (KJV)[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[ember]

I know you posted this to Jason but I wanted to answer by how I was lead.

The Holy Spirit and the word of God both say we are not to be called Teacher, we are to be called and thought of as instructors in the faith of what was already taught by the Lord.

We have only one Teacher, one Father, and one High Priest not many.


1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

oops...the buzzer just sounded and you were led wrong so y'all should get that checked out

6Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; 7if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; 8or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

Romans 12: 6-8

The Holy Spirit and the Bible say quite differently from what you appear to be teaching. Yes, you are teaching

 

[Ella85]

I would say pope is more appropriate. Anyone with your level of apostasy should be at the pinnacle.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ahhahaha GOLD!

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

ahhahaha GOLD!

Yeah, he's good at that.

 

[posthuman]

so much "rawr rawr rawr" in this thread

you would think we are bears, not sheep

 

[posthuman]

speaking of being sheep or not -- i've been reading 1 & 2 Peter, as i mentioned the other day, and along with that listening to some sermons about it. i've never really read these before in the context of the central debate of this thread though..

today i heard a man talking about 2 Peter 2, and i assume we're either familiar with it or can read it now -- Peter warns about false prophets & false teachers leading believers unfounded in the truth astray - and the man i was listening to made an interesting point i wanted to share, concerning the last few verses of the chapter -

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
(2 Peter 2:20-22)​

now, these are often pointed to as 'proof texts' when arguing that salvation can be gained and then lost again - that those who 'knew the way of righteousness' and then turned their backs on it are people who have been saved, have become new creations, adopted children of God the Father, and then because of ((insert reason you think a new creation in Christ can go back to being an old creation again)), have lost their salvation, their sonship.

what the man preaching pointed out though, is that these are compared by Peter to two proverbs:
a pig that's been washed going right back to wallowing in the mud, &
a dog returning to it's vomit.

what's significant about that? well, God's people are nowhere in the scripture compared to swine or dogs. they are called His sheep (in lots of references; i shouldn't need to give them, eh?). those who are saved are become new creations, and though we were at one time like pigs, and like dogs, Christ has brought us out of that and made us something else - no longer pigs. no longer dogs
so what this man was teaching is that those who Peter is talking about, false teachers & prophets that have turned their back on the truth, are not dogs who became sheep and then have become dogs again, but pigs who never became anything other than a pig. as John said in another place - gone out of us to show that they had never been a part of us.
that this is not a verse about losing salvation - this is a verse about having been given the truth, shown the light, and rejecting it - these are the ones who loved darkness rather than light, even though the light was revealed to them.

what do you cool dudes & dudettes think of what that old baptist minster was saying?

 

[Bibleteacher33]

The is no such thing as OSAS - the Bible plainly reads that when you die, you go to judgment. At judgment you are either found worthy of the Kingdom or worthy of hell. Those who think they can judge themselves saved is a certain sign they are predestined to the fires of eternal hell

 

[sydlit]

There are many who are victims of false teaching, and so entrenched, that I'm convinced that THEY're convinced they have the truth, and many probably mean well, (sincere but sincerely wrong?), so we really need to exercise some grace here. (Maybe we're being 'tested'?) I don't see anyone being openly antagonistic towards our Lord Jesus Christ, the way others I've dealt with have been (i.e. muslms, jw's, etc.), but R.C. teaching can often be harder to present the truth to, because so much of it seems to be so close. I DO believe there are R.C.s that are saved, but it's IN SPITE of the 'church', not BECAUSE of it. So let's pray for, and continue to reason with those here who may YET be our brothers in Christ. For Jesus' sake and God's glory. (thus endeth my little between round lecture. Ding!)

 

[M33]

The issue of OSAS needs to start at our rebirth. We confess we are sinners, ask Jesus to be our Lord, and receive the Holy Spirit. By receiving the Holy Spirit we are born again into Christ's Kingdom. God now sees us as perfect, through the perfect sacrifice of His Son. Once for all. This action is never repeated. Though we are human and will sin in one respect, we will never be accountable for sin, again. Otherwise, Christ's blood is not sufficient. Once we are adopted, we will permanently be in His family. We want to apologize for any sin, but the payment (in full) has already been made.

The Bible is written to both the saved and unsaved. Most of the warnings about Hell and such are written to non-believers. But once the Holy Spirit takes up residence, we can not be cast into hell. The fact that God Himself, through His Holy Spirit, lives in us, should make this clear. The 10 Commandments and more so, the Sermon on the Mount, both show we can not live a righteous life without Christ. The Apostle Paul said in Romans 7 that he continues to sin, though he really hates it when he does. Though someone argued this point with me, the words are translated in the present tense. If he didn't mean present, the words of God would show the past tense, but they clearly don't...

Romans 7:14-25
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[SUP][d][/SUP] a slave to the law of sin.

The big question that arises here is based on the fact that the only unforgivable sin is "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit". This means not accepting Him into yourself. He is the counselor, and guiding light if you will. So if you ask Him into your heart, how can you evict Him? There is no Scripture that tells us how to get rid of Him, and not believe in Him, once we have received Him.
It is impossible for someone who has received the Holy Spirit, to not believe in Him, anymore. And with His divine presence, we are sealed into the propitiation of Christ. To live in Christ is to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The sin nature is now without consequences. If someone believes they can still commit sins that can causes eternal damnation, Scripture says they haven't seen or known Jesus.


1 John 3:5,6 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.


Maranatha