Question About Tongues

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RickyZ

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Sep 20, 2012
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When God created creation it was perfect. When man fell he brought imperfection to creation. The job of the Messiah is to restore the world to it's created perfection. When the Messiah restores perfection to our imperfect world then these stop-gap measures God had to put into place will cease:

Gifts of healings will cease when in perfection no one is getting sick any more.

Gifts of knowledge will cease when in perfection we become knowledgeable.

Gifts of tongues will cease when in perfection we have once again our pure spiritual language.

How is that so freaking hard for you - and those like you - to understand???

To think that the writing of a book in and of itself is the restored perfection of creation is pure insanity!

To think that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist only in the writings of a book (KVJ1611 I'm talking to you) is pure insanity!

To blaspheme the very Holy Spirit you espouse to follow is pure insanity!

STOP THE INSANITY ROGER! Open your eyes and your spirit to the truth or you WILL suffer the consequences of your disbelief and blasphemes!!!!!!!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Really? What we believe about tongues is the difference between heaven and hell? Having the wrong opinion on it is the one unforgivable sin? Kind of gives pause to wonder exactly why I'm following God. I don't care about tongues enough to worry about it any more. It's not a deal breaker. It's certainly not blasphemy.
Tongues are a work of the Holy Spirit!

Attributing genuine tongues to anything BUT the Holy Spirit is blaspheme!

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is a heaven or hell deal breaker!

Geez people! It's just common sense! Why you insist on listening to the father of lies is beyond me.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Where?



Wow. You are saying that the gifts of the Spirit are methods of man, used for entertainment and to attract a crowd?

I am sorry but you really have no idea at all, do you?
No, sadly they haven't a clue nor will they accept one.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
Tongues are a work of the Holy Spirit!

Attributing genuine tongues to anything BUT the Holy Spirit is blaspheme!

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is a heaven or hell deal breaker!

Geez people! It's just common sense! Why you insist on listening to the father of lies is beyond me.
Speaking of "geez people!" Someone on here, (I can't remember who), has a mother who speaks in tongues and teaches many tongues -- Italian, German, Latin, Spanish, (I think), and seven tongues. She's a polyglot. Attribute that to the Holy Spirit? Meh, okay. God gifts some folks an ability to master multiple languages. I can guarantee that's never been one of my gifts, so, yes, I guess we can go with that.

Blasphemy? Okay, I get it. You're just doing what everyone else is doing -- talking to hear yourself sound important. "Father of lies" indeed.
:rolleyes: (This time that really is me rolling my eyes.)
 
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KennethC

Guest
Speaking of "geez people!" Someone on here, (I can't remember who), has a mother who speaks in tongues and teaches many tongues -- Italian, German, Latin, Spanish, (I think), and seven tongues. She's a polyglot. Attribute that to the Holy Spirit? Meh, okay. God gifts some folks an ability to master multiple languages. I can guarantee that's never been one of my gifts, so, yes, I guess we can go with that.

Blasphemy? Okay, I get it. You're just doing what everyone else is doing -- talking to hear yourself sound important. "Father of lies" indeed.
:rolleyes: (This time that really is me rolling my eyes.)

There is a big difference in saying you don't have the gift, as it is not given to all believers, and completely denying that believer can and do receive this gift now days as well as the others.

A total denial of the gifts is blasphemy, but stating you believe they exist but you just don't have it is not blasphemy.
There in lies the difference as denying anything that comes by the Holy Spirit is denying Him, and that is blasphemy !!!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Speaking of "geez people!" Someone on here, (I can't remember who), has a mother who speaks in tongues and teaches many tongues -- Italian, German, Latin, Spanish, (I think), and seven tongues. She's a polyglot. Attribute that to the Holy Spirit? Meh, okay. God gifts some folks an ability to master multiple languages. I can guarantee that's never been one of my gifts, so, yes, I guess we can go with that.

Blasphemy? Okay, I get it. You're just doing what everyone else is doing -- talking to hear yourself sound important. "Father of lies" indeed.
:rolleyes: (This time that really is me rolling my eyes.)
And that statement, my dear, exposes the true depth of your misunderstanding.

Listen, I'm not important. I'm just a peon in the game of life. But I at least understand that when you attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to satan, THAT IS BLASPHEME. Saying you don't understand works of the Spirit is not blaspheme, saying you don't participate in works of the Holy Spirit is not blaspheme.


But, make NO mistake - attributing the genuine works of the Holy Spirit to the father of lies is most DEFINATELY blaspheme.

And that is the very unique problem this particular discussion embraces. You can be wrong about anything else in the Bible and still be ok. But get this one wrong and it's not a pretty picture.
 
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It is implied from other scriptures. God did say that he would die on the day he ate of it. you also have to know that God doesn't consider physical death as death. Jesus tell us that all who believe on him will never die. He doesn't mean the physical body will live forever. For God death is separation from him, spiritual death.
I look at like this. In God's time, one day is equal to one thousand years of man's time. In God's time Adam died the same day he ate the fruit.

2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
It is a hard thing to see so many be against the gifts for today. And I can also sympathize and understand why they are against the gifts because I used to agree with them and really believed that tongues was of the devil once. Then later thought it was just for those wacky people who were emotional., then there came a point where the gifts could not be denied and God answered my questions about it when I was ready to ask. Someone once said that they may know something about a person but that doesn't mean they know ALL about that person. Unfortunately many people do not learn this lesson. I'm particularly thinking of Roger when posting this this evening. For you Roger. :D And the others who are against the gifts for today. It will profit us to read more about the Bible than we did when we first began.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10​
These verses state that there will come a time when prophecies will cease, tongues will cease, and knowledge will vanish away. Certainly, that time will certainly come—but when? Opponents of speaking in tongues believe it has already come. They cite the verse that says “when that which is perfect is come” and believe that the Bible is what is being spoken of. Therefore, they conclude, prophecies and tongues have passed away.
The Bible is perfect, but I don’t believe the Apostle Paul is talking about the Bible in this passage of Scripture. The same passage also says that when tongues and prophecies cease, knowledge will vanish away—but knowledge hasn’t vanished away. As a matter of fact, there is a prophecy in the Old Testament that says that knowledge will increase in the end times (Daniel 12:4). Today, you can look around and see that there is an exponential increase of knowledge in the world. The cumulative knowledge of mankind regarding the universe, biology, and technology is growing at a tremendous pace, so clearly knowledge hasn’t ceased yet.
Not only does this Scripture from 1 Corinthians say that knowledge will cease after that “which is perfect” has come, it also says that we will see God face to face:
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 Corinthians 13:11-12​
Now we see dimly, as through a dark glass, but then (when that which is perfect has come) we will see clearly, face to face. Obviously, we have not come to see God face to face yet. I’m not saying that God couldn’t appear to someone, but this is a blanket statement that applies to everyone seeing Him face to face. It’s talking about the second return of the Lord, or our gathering together unto Him. When we see the Lord face to face is when “that which is perfect is come.”
The Scripture also says that when "that which is perfect" has come, we shall know even as we are known. God knows us perfectly, but we certainly don’t know everything perfectly right now.
The things that these verses state will happen at the same time that prophecies and tongues vanish haven’t happened yet. Knowledge hasn’t passed away, we haven’t seen God face to face, and we don’t know everything perfectly the way we will in eternity. You can’t just use these verses to say that speaking in tongues has passed away and ignore everything else that is supposed to happen at the same time. It is obvious that the “that which is perfect” which is being spoken of here has not yet come to pass.
I believe the “that which is perfect” being referred to is our glorified body. Praying in tongues helps us only as long as we are in this physical body and have the limitation of a mind that is not completely renewed. Your spirit is praying when you speak in tongues, and the Holy Spirit can pray through you (Romans 8:26). You are speaking mysteries in the spirit and edifying yourself (1 Corinthians 14:2, 4). Speaking in tongues bypasses the unbelief that is in your brain, and allows you to talk directly to God. It is powerful, but it’s only for this life.
When we receive our glorified bodies, we won’t have the infirmity of not knowing. At that time, we will know all things, even as we are known. We will know how to pray perfectly. We will see God face to face, and we won’t need to speak in tongues anymore. But until our glorified bodies come and our minds are completely renewed, we need the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We need the presence and the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives, specifically the power of speaking in tongues.
Anyone who has been born again but doesn’t have the power of the Holy Spirit needs to receive it. You can’t live the life that God intends for you to live without the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues; this is the power to live the Christian life. There is a lot about praying in tongues that I can’t cover in this short synopsis, but I guarantee that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues will produce a radical change in your relationship with God. The Word of God will come alive, and you will begin to see and understand things you never noticed before. You need this ability.
The good news is that God wants you to have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and to speak in tongues even more than you want it. Jesus said,
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a f ish, will he for a f ish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Luke 11:11-13​
Some people teach that you can’t have any sin in your life or God won’t fill you with the Holy Spirit. They think that God won’t fill a dirty vessel. I want you to know that God doesn’t have any other kind of vessel to fill! If we could be perfect without the Holy Spirit, we wouldn’t need Him. The very fact that you aren’t perfect makes you a candidate to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It is God’s will for every born-again believer to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to speak in tongues. He created you to fill with His Spirit, so there is no way He isn’t going to do it when you ask. The only requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit is to be born again. Jesus is the one who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, so if you haven’t received the Giver, you can’t receive the Gift.
One of the things that kept me from speaking in tongues right away when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit was that I didn’t understand that I had to do the speaking. The Holy Spirit inspires you, but you have to do the talking:
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:4​
Just as God doesn’t make people receive salvation, He isn’t going to make you speak in tongues. God doesn’t take over people’s bodies, so you're going to have to initiate the use of your voice to start and stop speaking. You can’t just open your mouth and wait for sound to come out.
As you begin to utter the words the Holy Spirit is inspiring you to speak, the words will come more and more easily. You won’t understand what you are saying because the natural mind can’t understand the things of the spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14), but you can pray for an interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:13). Receiving an interpretation doesn’t mean that you’ll get a word-forword translation of everything you have said in tongues. It could mean that you’ll pray in tongues today, and sometime in the near future God will give you a word of knowledge or wisdom. The only time that an interpretation is required immediately is when someone speaks in tongues during a church service. It isn’t necessary when you are praying in tongues privately.
Speaking in tongues builds up your faith and draws out the power and knowledge that is in your spirit. If you recognize that you need this gift and you have already been born again, all you have to do is ask God and He will give it to you:
Father, I thank You that I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, I welcome You to fill me right now. Thank You for filling me with Your presence.
Sometimes people feel something when they are filled with the Holy Spirit, sometimes not. When I received the Holy Spirit I didn’t feel a thing, but I got Him. Regardless of whether you felt anything or not, begin to speak in tongues by faith. Open your mouth and utter the words that the Holy Spirit is inspiring within you.
Make praying in tongues a regular practice and you will begin to see the supernatural power of God manifesting in your life!

 
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I think it best to let God deal with his own servants. It's too easy for us to judge wrongly.
Maybe, maybe not. When a guy calls himself the "holy ghost bar tender" and encourages people to get drunk in the spirit... I think we can call him a heretic.
When Kenneth Copeland says that God is a hermaphrodite, he's a heretic.
 

RickyZ

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Sep 20, 2012
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Did Copeland say God was a hermaphrodite, or did he say God embodies both male and female traits?

I honestly don't know that's why I'm asking. But they are not the same.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Maybe, maybe not. When a guy calls himself the "holy ghost bar tender" and encourages people to get drunk in the spirit... I think we can call him a heretic.
When Kenneth Copeland says that God is a hermaphrodite, he's a heretic.


And I think we can't and shouldn't. Too many words that are said by US Christians who DON'T have a tv program OR a microscope on us from the world., would condemn us for sure if people knew. How is it that you and others who want to judge the brethren don't see that??? :confused:
 
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Wow, that is the most hollow and empty understanding of Christ that I have ever heard.
What part of John 1:1 is so hard to understand? Does the capitalization of Word throw you off? God exalted his word above his name. The bible is the spirit of Jesus.

Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Did Copeland say God was a hermaphrodite, or did he say God embodies both male and female traits?

I honestly don't know that's why I'm asking. But they are not the same.


I'm not sure either but the problem is many Christians don't find out and yet they will repeat things anyway, regardless. And it's just shooting those your brothers and sisters in Christ. Sure, they might do things differently than some but nevertheless, to call other Christians "heretics" is a sad commentary on the church.
 

Billyd

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May 8, 2014
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TONGUES AND THE WORD OF THE GOD!

The word “tongues” is used some 35 times in the entire bible. Of these thirty five times we find that the Hebrew word for tongues is used exactly 8 times while the Greek New Testament has two words used some 27 times. Below you will find the three words used and the verses they have been used in.
Hebrew

Law-shone
or lesh-o-naw which meant tongue as an instrument of speech or language

Used in Genesis 10:20, Isaiah 66:18, Jeremiah 9:3, 23:31, Psalms 31:20, 55:9, 78:36 and 140:3

Greek
Glossa
which meant the tongue and by implication language
Hetero-glossa
which meant other tongued i.e. foreigner
Glossa
used in Mark 16:16-18, Acts 2:3,4,11, 10:46, 19:6, Romans 3:13, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:10, 28, 30, 13:1, 8, 14:5, 6, 18, 23, 39, Revelation 7:9, 10:11, 11:9, 13:7, 16:10, and 17:5
Hetero-Glossa
used only in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:21
The best way to understand the application of the word tongues in the New Testament is to understand the word as defined by God. You must also understand how this word is used in context as well as the point in history when the use of “tongues” was relevant. Let us notice the following use of the words that were used to describe “languages”.

Genesis 10:20
states, “These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues (languages), in their countries, and in their nations.”
Isaiah 66:18
states, “For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues (languages); and they shall come, and see my glory”
Jeremiah 9:3
states, “And they bend their tongues (languages) like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the Lord.”
Jeremiah 23:31
states, “Behold I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues (language, speech, mouth), and say, He saith.
Psalms 31:20
states, “Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shall keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues (languages).”
Psalm 55:9
states, “Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues (language or speech): for I have seen violence and strife in the city.
Psalm 78:36
states, “Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues (language, speech, mouth).”
Psalm 140:3
states, “They have sharpened their tongues (speech, tongues) like a serpent; adders’ poison is under their lips. Selah.
It is obvious from the above Old Testament witnesses that the word translated “tongues” meant language, speech, the use of the mouth to speak etc. As a matter of fact as we will find out the New Testament use of the Word “tongues” is going to mean the exact same thing. Note the following examples and I will say that we will study the context and time frame of this in our next lesson.

Mark 16:17-18
states, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues (languages); they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; and they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 2:3-4
states, “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues (tongues) like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (languages), as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:11
states, “Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues (languages) the wonderful works of God.”
Acts 10:46
states, “For they heard them speak with tongues (languages), and magnify God…..”
Acts 19:6
states, “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them; and they spake with tongues (languages), and prophesied.”
Romans 3:13
states, “Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongue (mouth, tongue used to speak) they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips….”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:10
states, “To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers (many) kinds of tongues (languages); to another the interpretation of tongues (languages)….”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:28
states, “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues (languages).”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:30
states, “Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues (languages)? Do all interpret?”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 13:1
states, Though I speak with the tongues (languages) of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 13:8
states, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues (languages), they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:4-6
states, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue (language) edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaks with tongues (languages), except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto to speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:18-19
states, “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:21-23
states, “In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages) and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them that believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues (languages), and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad (nuts).”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:39
states, “Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues (languages).”
Let us notice some things to about the Corinthian Church and their state of mind if you will. I must state that the above must be studied and considered in light of the following facts.
The Corinthian Church was filled with immaturity.
The Corinthian Church had some dozen plus open sins and corrupt practices.
During the time frame of this letter the Word of God was some 30 years from being completed.
Tongues (languages) was a sign for unbelievers and was used to substantiate the message and the messenger as being valid.
Women are told to keep silence I.E. no speaking in tongues—note most charismatic groups regularly allow women to practice this.
Revelation 7:9
states, “After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues (languages), stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands
Revelation 10:11
states, And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues (languages), and kings.”
Revelation 11:9
states, “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues (languages) and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in grave.
Revelation 13:7
states, “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues (languages), and nations.”
Revelation 16:10
states, “And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues (tongues) for pain.”
Revelation 17:15
states, “And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (languages).”

As we can clearly see there is no magic about the word “tongues” as it simply means languages, speech or use of tongue to produce speech. The early churches were without the completed word of God as well as “ministers” trained in the “languages” of the nations round about. The early gifts were used to substantiate the message and the messenger until the completed word of God came. As the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century played out and as the Bible came to completion the miraculous gifts that accompanied the early word slowly faded out and were finally done away with at the completion of the word of God and the end of the apostolic age which was the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It is interesting to note that other church letters state that a work of faith, hope, and love prevailed in the Lord’s churches in the latter third of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century and there is no apparent problem with this gift of “tongues” in the churches that were mature (complete) as they had moved on from childish things and had grown up embracing faith, hope and love as the three remaining spiritual gifts.
I thought that I would bring DC's reply forward. I suggest that you all take the time to read it.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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What part of John 1:1 is so hard to understand? Does the capitalization of Word throw you off? God exalted his word above his name. The bible is the spirit of Jesus.

Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
God is a living breathing interactive spirit. Spirits are living beings. To constrict them to nothing more than writings in a book is extremely myopic. The book testifies to God - the book is the Word of God - but the book is NOT God. What you wrote earlier amounts to saying that you know your mother because you read about her every day in the newspaper - but she's not an actual living being, she's just words in an article and nothing more.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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I thought that I would bring DC's reply forward. I suggest that you all take the time to read it.
His examples are true - but in no way support his conclusions. It's like saying French died out once we all had proof that the French are pussies.
 
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Did Copeland say God was a hermaphrodite, or did he say God embodies both male and female traits?

I honestly don't know that's why I'm asking. But they are not the same.
Here's what he says. This quote was taken from Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

People have even argued about whether God is male or female. But the Bible itself tells us that. He’s both! That’s right. In the Hebrew language, all words have gender. They’re either male or female. But the Hebrew word Jehovah is both masculine and feminine. He’s as much female as He is male and as much male as He is female. - See more at: Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries
 
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shotgunner

Guest
What part of John 1:1 is so hard to understand? Does the capitalization of Word throw you off? God exalted his word above his name. The bible is the spirit of Jesus.

Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Just don't forget, the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The Bible contains the Word of God, which is alive and sharper than any two edged sword but it's not the physical Jesus. I don't think that's what you meant anyway though.
 
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I'm not sure either but the problem is many Christians don't find out and yet they will repeat things anyway, regardless. And it's just shooting those your brothers and sisters in Christ. Sure, they might do things differently than some but nevertheless, to call other Christians "heretics" is a sad commentary on the church.
Do you believe that anybody is a heretic? How about JW's, Mormons, the Pope?
 
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Just don't forget, the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The Bible contains the Word of God, which is alive and sharper than any two edged sword but it's not the physical Jesus. I don't think that's what you meant anyway though.
The bible just said the bible is alive. What more can I say? Is the bible alive or not in your opinion?