Question About Tongues

[RickyZ]

Here's what he says. This quote was taken from Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

And a limited mind will of course take "has both male and female traits" and translate it into "he's a sexual deviant".

Tell me this - is God white or black? Or could He have both white and black traits without being mulatto?

 

[shotgunner]

Here's what he says. This quote was taken from Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

People have even argued about whether God is male or female. But the Bible itself tells us that. He’s both! That’s right. In the Hebrew language, all words have gender. They’re either male or female. But the Hebrew word Jehovah is both masculine and feminine. He’s as much female as He is male and as much male as He is female. - See more at: Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

That far transcends your thought of a hermaphrodite. Think of it like this. God made Adam in his own likeness and image. Then he took the rib from Adam and made woman. He didn't take a rib bone, the word rib there, is the structure, the support, like a rib of a ship. Praise God isn't he awesome! He took the supporting part of man and created a woman to be man's helper and support. Then the two could come together again and become one again.

See Adam was made like God and God took the Woman from Adam, then in marriage they become one again. Praise God!!

 

[BarlyGurl]

checks thread....<reads Ricky's comment> Wha??? .... leaves

 

[KennethC]

WOW !!!

I am completely shocked as this is the first time in a whole year I have ever seen you give this much bible support in your responses...........LOL

TONGUES AND THE WORD OF THE GOD!

The word “tongues” is used some 35 times in the entire bible. Of these thirty five times we find that the Hebrew word for tongues is used exactly 8 times while the Greek New Testament has two words used some 27 times. Below you will find the three words used and the verses they have been used in.
Hebrew

Law-shone
or lesh-o-naw which meant tongue as an instrument of speech or language

Used in Genesis 10:20, Isaiah 66:18, Jeremiah 9:3, 23:31, Psalms 31:20, 55:9, 78:36 and 140:3

Greek
Glossa
which meant the tongue and by implication language
Hetero-glossa
which meant other tongued i.e. foreigner
Glossa
used in Mark 16:16-18, Acts 2:3,4,11, 10:46, 19:6, Romans 3:13, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:10, 28, 30, 13:1, 8, 14:5, 6, 18, 23, 39, Revelation 7:9, 10:11, 11:9, 13:7, 16:10, and 17:5
Hetero-Glossa
used only in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:21
The best way to understand the application of the word tongues in the New Testament is to understand the word as defined by God. You must also understand how this word is used in context as well as the point in history when the use of “tongues” was relevant. Let us notice the following use of the words that were used to describe “languages”.

Genesis 10:20
states, “These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues (languages), in their countries, and in their nations.”
Isaiah 66:18
states, “For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues (languages); and they shall come, and see my glory”
Jeremiah 9:3
states, “And they bend their tongues (languages) like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the Lord.”
Jeremiah 23:31
states, “Behold I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues (language, speech, mouth), and say, He saith.
Psalms 31:20
states, “Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shall keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues (languages).”
Psalm 55:9
states, “Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues (language or speech): for I have seen violence and strife in the city.
Psalm 78:36
states, “Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues (language, speech, mouth).”
Psalm 140:3
states, “They have sharpened their tongues (speech, tongues) like a serpent; adders’ poison is under their lips. Selah.
It is obvious from the above Old Testament witnesses that the word translated “tongues” meant language, speech, the use of the mouth to speak etc. As a matter of fact as we will find out the New Testament use of the Word “tongues” is going to mean the exact same thing. Note the following examples and I will say that we will study the context and time frame of this in our next lesson.

Mark 16:17-18
states, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues (languages); they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; and they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 2:3-4
states, “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues (tongues) like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (languages), as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:11
states, “Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues (languages) the wonderful works of God.”
Acts 10:46
states, “For they heard them speak with tongues (languages), and magnify God…..”
Acts 19:6
states, “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them; and they spake with tongues (languages), and prophesied.”
Romans 3:13
states, “Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongue (mouth, tongue used to speak) they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips….”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:10
states, “To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers (many) kinds of tongues (languages); to another the interpretation of tongues (languages)….”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:28
states, “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues (languages).”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:30
states, “Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues (languages)? Do all interpret?”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 13:1
states, Though I speak with the tongues (languages) of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 13:8
states, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues (languages), they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:4-6
states, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue (language) edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaks with tongues (languages), except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto to speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:18-19
states, “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:21-23
states, “In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages) and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them that believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues (languages), and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad (nuts).”
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 14:39
states, “Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues (languages).”
Let us notice some things to about the Corinthian Church and their state of mind if you will. I must state that the above must be studied and considered in light of the following facts.
The Corinthian Church was filled with immaturity.
The Corinthian Church had some dozen plus open sins and corrupt practices.
During the time frame of this letter the Word of God was some 30 years from being completed.
Tongues (languages) was a sign for unbelievers and was used to substantiate the message and the messenger as being valid.
Women are told to keep silence I.E. no speaking in tongues—note most charismatic groups regularly allow women to practice this.
Revelation 7:9
states, “After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues (languages), stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands
Revelation 10:11
states, And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues (languages), and kings.”
Revelation 11:9
states, “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues (languages) and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in grave.
Revelation 13:7
states, “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues (languages), and nations.”
Revelation 16:10
states, “And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues (tongues) for pain.”
Revelation 17:15
states, “And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (languages).”

As we can clearly see there is no magic about the word “tongues” as it simply means languages, speech or use of tongue to produce speech. The early churches were without the completed word of God as well as “ministers” trained in the “languages” of the nations round about. The early gifts were used to substantiate the message and the messenger until the completed word of God came. As the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century played out and as the Bible came to completion the miraculous gifts that accompanied the early word slowly faded out and were finally done away with at the completion of the word of God and the end of the apostolic age which was the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It is interesting to note that other church letters state that a work of faith, hope, and love prevailed in the Lord’s churches in the latter third of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century and there is no apparent problem with this gift of “tongues” in the churches that were mature (complete) as they had moved on from childish things and had grown up embracing faith, hope and love as the three remaining spiritual gifts.

 

[KJV1611]

God is a living breathing interactive spirit. Spirits are living beings. To constrict them to nothing more than writings in a book is extremely myopic. The book testifies to God - the book is the Word of God - but the book is NOT God. What you wrote earlier amounts to saying that you know your mother because you read about her every day in the newspaper - but she's not an actual living being, she's just words in an article and nothing more.

To you the bible is a book, it's not alive to you. To me it's not, I interact with my Lord through the pages of my bible. My Lord brings my mind to specific verses and teaches me about Himself and reveals the secret things to me.

If that doesn't happen for you then I can see why you think I'm a fool. It is just a book for you, but it's way more than that to me.

 

[KJV1611]

And a limited mind will of course take "has both male and female traits" and translate it into "he's a sexual deviant".

Tell me this - is God white or black? Or could He have both white and black traits without being mulatto?

Show me in the bible where God has a female side.

 

[RickyZ]

Let's stop scripture bashing and look at the benefits of tongues, just for a change.

Some time back I had been interacting with a guy who was pissed at and rejecting God because he believed God had sent his girlfriend to hell because she had supposedly died without accepting Him. I was praying over this in my prayer tongue, speaking mysteries I knew little to nothing about. While praying about her I got an image of these legions of angels rushing into what I interpreted was a cave. When I shared this with him, he got quiet and said "she died in a car wreck under a freeway overpass". Not an exact match but it was close enough to comfort him and make him think that maybe she hadn't died 'alone'. How would I have ever known that? I didn't and couldn't. But the Holy Spirit knew, and thru my yielding to the Spirit, the Spirit clued me into enough of the mystery to help change this guy's attitude about God.

That's what it is all about my friends. The gifts are given to us to fill in blanks we know nothing about. And as long as there are mysteries to be revealed, God will give us the gifts we need to reveal them.

IF we are willing to accept them.

 

[KJV1611]

People have even argued about whether God is male or female. But the Bible itself tells us that. He’s both! That’s right. In the Hebrew language, all words have gender. They’re either male or female. But the Hebrew word Jehovah is both masculine and feminine. He’s as much female as He is male and as much male as He is female. - See more at: Vive la Différence - Kenneth Copeland Ministries

That far transcends your thought of a hermaphrodite. Think of it like this. God made Adam in his own likeness and image. Then he took the rib from Adam and made woman. He didn't take a rib bone, the word rib there, is the structure, the support, like a rib of a ship. Praise God isn't he awesome! He took the supporting part of man and created a woman to be man's helper and support. Then the two could come together again and become one again.

See Adam was made like God and God took the Woman from Adam, then in marriage they become one again. Praise God!!

Adam was not a hermaphrodite either. God using Adam's rib doesn't infer that Adam had female in him. God made Adam out of dirt, does that mean dirt is hermaphroditic? Well actually it does in Kaballah and Freemasonry which is what Copeland is really teaching. The God of the bible does not have female anything.

 

[BarlyGurl]

... a bride... a female BRIDE

 

[shotgunner]

Adam was not a hermaphrodite either. God using Adam's rib doesn't infer that Adam had female in him. God made Adam out of dirt, does that mean dirt is hermaphroditic? Well actually it does in Kaballah and Freemasonry which is what Copeland is really teaching. The God of the bible does not have female anything.

It's not about being male or female and certainly not a hermaphrodite. Stop the adolescent thinking, you're better than that.

It's about being one with Christ "ONE" not just together but "ONE" .That's why we are called both the body and bride of Christ.

That's why Jesus said
John 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[KJV1611]

Let's stop scripture bashing and look at the benefits of tongues, just for a change.

Some time back I had been interacting with a guy who was pissed at and rejecting God because he believed God had sent his girlfriend to hell because she had supposedly died without accepting Him. I was praying over this in my prayer tongue, speaking mysteries I knew little to nothing about. While praying about her I got an image of these legions of angels rushing into what I interpreted was a cave. When I shared this with him, he got quiet and said "she died in a car wreck under a freeway overpass". Not an exact match but it was close enough to comfort him and make him think that maybe she hadn't died 'alone'. How would I have ever known that? I didn't and couldn't. But the Holy Spirit knew, and thru my yielding to the Spirit, the Spirit clued me into enough of the mystery to help change this guy's attitude about God.

That's what it is all about my friends. The gifts are given to us to fill in blanks we know nothing about. And as long as there are mysteries to be revealed, God will give us the gifts we need to reveal them.

IF we are willing to accept them.

I'm glad it helped change the guy's attitude. Did he get saved?

 

[KJV1611]

It's not about being male or female and certainly not a hermaphrodite. Stop the adolescent thinking, you're better than that.

It's about being one with Christ "ONE" not just together but "ONE" .That's why we are called both the body and bride of Christ.

That's why Jesus said
John 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Shotgunner there is a religion that worships the hermaphroditic god and it has nothing to do with male and female parts. It has to do with Yahweh and the sacred feminine aka Shekina.... which is not found in any bible in any language. That god is the god of Copeland. I am not one with Copeland, we serve two different God's. The God of the bible is male period.

 

[shotgunner]

Shotgunner there is a religion that worships the hermaphroditic god and it has nothing to do with male and female parts. It has to do with Yahweh and the sacred feminine aka Shekina.... which is not found in any bible in any language. That god is the god of Copeland. I am not one with Copeland, we serve two different God's. The God of the bible is male period.

I know a good bit about the man and he has done a lot of good for the body of Christ. I don't know if I agree with everything he says, but I certainly don't believe he is serving a false idol. Tread cautiously here for God doesn't like it when we falsely judge his servants.

 

[ladylynn]

Do you believe that anybody is a heretic? How about JW's, Mormons, the Pope?

I believe there are waaaaay to many people and Christians who are all too eager to find fault. This should not be a trait of the believer 'but' commonly it IS. There are actual so called 'ministries' that do one thing., find fault, find something that sounds wrong and then they play it over and over and over..... on youtube and on their worthless websites. They have no other reason for existing but for the free condemnation of other Christians who do not believe the way they do. Looking for the slightest mistake and running with it. I find that extremely backbiting. And the word "heretic" gets thrown around A LOT.



Note 22 at 1 Th. 5:21: Notice that Paul said, "hold fast that which is good." He did not say reject the bad. That is implied but the emphasis is on embracing the good. There are some people who are on "witch hunts," just looking for the slightest mistake on a minister's part. And once that occurs, they come against them in the most violent ways, often branding them as heretics. That is not what Paul is saying.
When listening to any ministry, discernment needs to be used. Not everything that is said in the name of the Lord is truly from the Lord. But it is equally wrong to be critical of others except in the most extreme cases. Kenneth Hagin said, "Even an old cow has enough sense to eat the hay and leave the sticks." We should be as wise.



I like what this says because it helps give some perspective. People LIKE witch hunts. They all get in a group and at the expense of those they disagree with, they can all pal up together and find unity. It seems to me 'unity' can be found in other ways for us believers.




[TABLE="class: content, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 76%"]

1 Thessalonians 5:21
​

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.Note 21 at 1 Th. 5:21: Paul had just spoken of not despising prophesyings (v. 20). Now he is telling us not to be gullible. Extremes are always wrong. It is wrong to be so critical that we despise prophesyings ) and it is equally wrong to take everything that is spoken in the name of the Lord as true. We must exercise discernment.
Jesus said we would know true prophets (and likewise their prophesies) by their fruit (Mt. 7:15-20). If their message is leading people away from the Lord and into bondage, we should not hold fast their words. However, we need to apply wisdom when inspecting fruit. Even good fruit can go bad. There were some people who took Paul's message and twisted it to say that he had given them freedom to live a sinful life (Rom. 3:8). That wasn't so, and isolated incidents are not justification for discrediting a whole ministry. But the dominant fruit which a ministry produces is a valid way of proving or judging that ministry.
The believers in Berea also gave us a good example of how to prove all things. In Acts 17:11 the scripture says, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." The ultimate test of any prophet or prophecy is whether or not it lines up with the written Word of God. If anything violates the letter or spirit of the Word, it is wrong. Once again, there needs to be some maturity on our part to make a judgment like this. No one has the whole truth (1 Cor. 13:12). Anyone can and everyone does make mistakes. Yet there should be an overall scriptural soundness in our doctrine. Those who blatantly violate scripture should not be judged as good.
Note 22 at 1 Th. 5:21: Notice that Paul said, "hold fast that which is good." He did not say reject the bad. That is implied but the emphasis is on embracing the good. There are some people who are on "witch hunts," just looking for the slightest mistake on a minister's part. And once that occurs, they come against them in the most violent ways, often branding them as heretics. That is not what Paul is saying.
When listening to any ministry, discernment needs to be used. Not everything that is said in the name of the Lord is truly from the Lord. But it is equally wrong to be critical of others except in the most extreme cases. Kenneth Hagin said, "Even an old cow has enough sense to eat the hay and leave the sticks." We should be as wise.


Sooo have sense enough to eat the hay and leave the sticks. Wise words!!

 

[RickyZ]

I'm glad it helped change the guy's attitude. Did he get saved?

He left the country not long after this... I don't know if he ever became saved but I do know a lot of his anger towards God was mitigated.

 

[RickyZ]

checks thread....<reads Ricky's comment> Wha??? .... leaves

And which comment was that? I've thrown more than a few up today (sorry if they seem a bit ornery).

 

[RickyZ]

To you the bible is a book, it's not alive to you. To me it's not, I interact with my Lord through the pages of my bible. My Lord brings my mind to specific verses and teaches me about Himself and reveals the secret things to me.

If that doesn't happen for you then I can see why you think I'm a fool. It is just a book for you, but it's way more than that to me.

The Bible is indeed a book, a living breathing manuscript chronically all the life to be found in God. Maybe I misread your statement but It seemed to me you placed the book as the be-all end-all of God, that He doesn't exist outside of the book. And that was my point, if you think God only exists within the pages of the book then you have a way too limited view of God. If I misunderstood that then I owe you an apology.

 

[BarlyGurl]

And which comment was that? I've thrown more than a few up today (sorry if they seem a bit ornery).

it was the mulatto comment... I wasn't even gonna TRY to understand... I remember thinking..."He needs a nap" LOL!

 

[Apostol2013]

It looks to mean that only two or three should be allowed to
speak in tongues, each in their turn, with an interpreter present.
Otherwise it is many speaking at once causing chaotic cacophony.

She answered you all read it and learn let it simmer

 

[convallaria]

I thought that I would bring DC's reply forward. I suggest that you all take the time to read it.

Re the great long passage referred to: It is all very well to make quotes but you need proper understanding to go with it. Of course a tongue is a language, but obviously a heavenly language would be an unknown tongue to us...not in normal human usage unless given by God as a gift. The other thing is, the Holy Spirit gives understanding to scripture, He being the One who leads us into all truth.

Pride is the thing that will stop anyone from recognizing hey hang on, I actually do not have the Holy Spirit at all, and no amount of positive thinking can make that right. Go back to square one, repent of your unbelief, ask the Lord to make you born again exactly as it is in the scriptures....and then watch everything change.