To comfort those who speak in tongues

[phil112]

This is what I do. However, I sing directly in English...bypassing tongues...by the Power of the Spirit of God.

When people first hear it, they often do not believe it is not a song that has already been written. I don't know how it happens, it just does!

......................

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Okay, let me get this straight, the gospel you preach is tongues(pretty sure there is more to the gospel than just tongues), but haven't heard you talking about casting out devils, haven't read where you've picked up poisonous snakes, haven't read a post where you said drinking poison didn't harm you, and certainly haven't seen your testimony about laying hands on the sick and healing them.
You and convallaria, and other tongues people, really need to re-examine your walk in the word. You have no spiritual maturity and you're not growing. You are still children and you refuse to put away childish things.

Grow up!

 

[ember]

Okay, let me get this straight, the gospel you preach is tongues(pretty sure there is more to the gospel than just tongues), but haven't heard you talking about casting out devils, haven't read where you've picked up poisonous snakes, haven't read a post where you said drinking poison didn't harm you, and certainly haven't seen your testimony about laying hands on the sick and healing them.
You and convallaria, and other tongues people, really need to re-examine your walk in the word. You have no spiritual maturity and you're not growing. You are still children and you refuse to put away childish things.

Grow up!

well, since Jesus is blessing me RIGHT NOW in my spirit, I gotta say...BLESS YOU TOO Phil!

The gospel I preach is the same as the gospel preached by Paul the Apostle...we know the same God and have met the same Jesus...Paul on the road to Damascus and me in Sunday School.

God bless!

 

[Galatians2-20]

i don't think i have much charisma either

LOL! Good one!

 

[posthuman]

I would say that the command comes first - then we choose to obey. I would that ye all spake in tongues . . . there is the command . . . NOW - do I just open my mouth?
God has already given us this gift of holy Spirit and I already said that God has purposed or determined that we utilize the manifestation of the Spirit - purpose, determine - no matter which word we use

yes yes, this ^^
so of course i can't just open my mouth and speak in tongues ((go-go-gadget-spritual-gift!)) -- it's not up to me what God wants for me to do for Him.
so this idea from Timothy, in the OP -- to "stir up the gift" -- that gift is the Spirit Himself, not some particular way the Spirit should make Him known in us.
((( do ya think maybe we've seen people on the forum trying to 'stir up' a gift of teaching in themseves when it's not what God wills for them at the moment? haha - that finger is pointed at me, for sure )))

so we ought to be stirring up - as opposed to quenching - the Spirit of God in ourselves. and commanding that Spirit "make me speak in tounges now, kk go!!" is i think not the way this is done.

i feel a lot better thinking we're agreeing, sister, than thinking we weren't

 

[Gr8grace]

39Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Paul was teaching order from the Corinthians disorder. He was not forbidding them to use their gift, nor could anyone else, He was teaching them to use their gift in order.

This was written around 55 AD. So there was still 15 or so more years of this sign Gift to Israel before it ceased.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Be a Continuationist and please continue... (get it? lol ) Why do you believe the gifts are still for today? I think you will do a good job at explaining it, which will help others come to realize the Holy Spirit has already placed a gift or gifts inside of them of which they should operate in for the edification of others. A Continuationist but not a Charismatic... interesting distinction.

I could list several testimonies from the Early Church Fathers which show that the gifts were still in action up until the invention of Amillennialism however, that has been done before and few changed their minds.

I've already given a brief historical account of the origins of Cessationism and how it was birthed in the same belief system as many Orthodox & Catholic beliefs that we Protestants now openly reject.

However, here is what makes me believe that the gift of tongues is still relevant for today:

I live in an area of North Carolina where many immigrants come to build a new life for themselves and their families. On any given day, as I do my shopping, I run into several different people that speak several different languages. I live less than a mile from an apartment complex where many different races and nationalities are represented. If their has ever been a time when the gift of tongues has been needed, it is now.

I don't need to hop on a boat and sail across the sea to find people who speak a different language. I don't need to rent a camel and stroll across a vast desert wasteland. All I need to do today is take an afternoon stroll through the neighborhood.

Makes sense, don't ya' think?

 

[ember]

39Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Paul was teaching order from the Corinthians disorder. He was not forbidding them to use their gift, nor could anyone else, He was teaching them to use their gift in order.

This was written around 55 AD. So there was still 15 or so more years of this sign Gift to Israel before it ceased.

oh man...you were so close too.....

 

[BarlyGurl]

... very apropos... and clever, Ember

 

[BenFTW]

39Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Paul was teaching order from the Corinthians disorder. He was not forbidding them to use their gift, nor could anyone else, He was teaching them to use their gift in order.

This was written around 55 AD. So there was still 15 or so more years of this sign Gift to Israel before it ceased.

So, if someone were to come to you and tell you that they operated in this ceased gift, what would you say to them? Not only that, but they can give you testimonies of them speaking in tongues and an interpreter interpreting. They can share the conversations they have had with the Holy Spirit through tongues, where the Holy Spirit has fellowship with the tongue speaker and the interpreter. With all this to consider, what would you say to such a person operating in the gift of tongues if it has ceased today? How would your doctrinal belief make sense of their experience?

 

[phil112]

well, since Jesus is blessing me RIGHT NOW in my spirit, I gotta say...BLESS YOU TOO Phil!

The gospel I preach is the same as the gospel preached by Paul the Apostle...we know the same God and have met the same Jesus...Paul on the road to Damascus and me in Sunday School.

God bless!

Ember, you emphasize and justify tongues while Paul de-emphasized and predicted the discontinuance of them. You do not speak the same gospel as Paul.

 

[convallaria]

This is what I do. However, I sing directly in English...bypassing tongues...by the Power of the Spirit of God.

When people first hear it, they often do not believe it is not a song that has already been written. I don't know how it happens, it just does!

Apart from that, I write my own songs and sing...I have not done so in quite a while because of a family situation that was beyond my control wherein I was falsely accused of doing some pretty awful things. It has been proven I did not do the things someone said I did, but the harm was done and my name became mud to quite a few people.

Don't listen to gossip. Pray...I can only put my life in God's hands.

Last night, for the first time in a long time, I felt a song...a new song...being 'born' in me and I have no voice but the one God gives to me...I'm not talking about how I 'sound' because I don't sing off - key...I'm talking about that which is given to us by the Spirit...the Holy Spirit...who gives life even to the dead dry bones and causes them to rise up again.

Ah well....I'm getting carried away now...but praise to God our Father and much glory to Jesus our Savior!

Stirring up that gift that is in you!!! Praise God.

Wonderful!!! Our God is amazing Ember, Halleluyah.

Re the mud that sticks, yep been there too. We know that ALL things work together for good, to them that love God, to them that are called according to His purpose...what bad things happen to us turn out to be good for the preaching of the Gospel according to our testimony in Christ. Looking back, we wouldn't have it any other way, amen.

 

[BenFTW]

Ember, you emphasize and justify tongues while Paul de-emphasized and predicted the discontinuance of them. You do not speak the same gospel as Paul.

"I would that ye all spake with tongues"... sure sounds like Paul was de-emphasizing the gift. Totally.

 

[phil112]

"I would that ye all spake with tongues"... sure sounds like Paul was de-emphasizing the gift. Totally.

And your attempt to justify someone else's error in scripture speaks to your maturity in the word.

 

[BenFTW]

And your attempt to justify someone else's error in scripture speaks to your maturity in the word.

So what does it say about your maturity when you ostracize believers due to your understanding of the Word? This person isn't in error, but your tone is. You speak of maturity and throw insults. How about you show a little meekness and respect and do your due diligence? Consider what they are sharing rather than holding to your doctrinal error of Cessationism at all costs.

 

[Gr8grace]

oh man...you were so close too.....

Tongues ceased in 70 AD. The tongues of today are emotions, self induced or demonic.

God had Israel for His Client nation. This nation was to be free and have the freedom to spread the Gospel to all other nations and people. As long as this nation stayed positive to God and spread the Gospel, God protected Israel.

Israel fell away, and they went negative towards God. God puts His client nation through 5 cycles of discipline to get that nation "back on track". Each cycle of discipline gets worse so as to wake people up. If the Nation does not heed the discipline the 5th cycle ends that nations client status and God Goes to a nation that is positive to Him.

1st ~~ Leviticus 26:16-17
2nd ~~ Leviticus 26:18-20
3rd `~ Leviticus 26:21-22
4th ~~ Leviticus 26:23-26
5th ~~ Leviticus 26:27-38; descriptive in Deuteronomy 28:49-67

In Isaiah 28, the prophet warns Israel of the coming 5th cycle of discipline and tongues were Going to be a sign to Israel.

Isaiah 28:2 (NASB95)
2 Behold, the Lord has a strong and mighty agent(The Jews were dispersed as a nation in 70 AD);
As a storm of hail, a tempest of destruction,
Like a storm of mighty overflowing waters,
He has cast itdown to the earth with His hand.


Isaiah 28:11 (NASB95)
11 Indeed, He will speak to this people (Israel/Jews)
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,


1 Corinthians 14:21 (NASB95)
21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people(Israel/Jews), and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

While members of the church had the Gift,the impact of the Gift was for "this people"......Israel.


What was the purpose of tongues? And what did God want to accomplish through the Sign gift of tongues? Paul answers this,not us.


1 Corinthians 14:22 (NASB95)
22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.


1 Corinthians 14:21 (NASB95)
21 In the Law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak tothis people, and even so they will not listen to Me,” says the Lord.

Tongues were a sign to unbelieving Israel, that they were about to have the 5th cycle of discipline administered to their nation. And they would be dispersed as a nation. And tongues ceased to "this people" in 70 AD when God administered His 5th cycle of discipline.


Isaiah 28:1 (NASB95)
1 Woe to the proud crown of the drunkards of Ephraim,
And to the fading flower of its glorious beauty,
Which is at the head of the fertile valley
Of those who are overcome with wine!


Isaiah 28:2 (NASB95)
2 Behold, the Lord has a strong and mighty agent(Jerusalem was overthrown by a foreign agent);
As a storm of hail, a tempest of destruction,
Like a storm of mighty overflowing waters,
He has cast itdown to the earth with His hand.


Deut 28~~

49 “aThe Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, bas the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you shall not understand,
50 a nation of fierce countenance who will ahave no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young.......continue on to verse 67. In 70 AD Jerusalem fell and Israel was dispersed as a nation. Thus the sign of tongues had accomplished its purpose and they ceased.

 

[convallaria]

Originally Posted by BenFTW

"I would that ye all spake with tongues"... sure sounds like Paul was de-emphasizing the gift. Totally.

And your attempt to justify someone else's error in scripture speaks to your maturity in the word.

Phil the scripture is there in front of your face man, and you still can't see it!!!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

yes yes, this ^^
so of course i can't just open my mouth and speak in tongues ((go-go-gadget-spritual-gift!)) -- it's not up to me what God wants for me to do for Him.
so this idea from Timothy, in the OP -- to "stir up the gift" -- that gift is the Spirit Himself, not some particular way the Spirit should make Him known in us.
((( do ya think maybe we've seen people on the forum trying to 'stir up' a gift of teaching in themseves when it's not what God wills for them at the moment? haha - that finger is pointed at me, for sure )))

so we ought to be stirring up - as opposed to quenching - the Spirit of God in ourselves. and commanding that Spirit "make me speak in tounges now, kk go!!" is i think not the way this is done.

i feel a lot better thinking we're agreeing, sister, than thinking we weren't

Geez . . . . I don't command the Spirit . . . that's just all I can say . . .

I don't think we are agreeing, LOL! But I still love ya bro!

 

[jb]

You'll find it almost impossible to change the mind of a person (through persuasion from the Scriptures or experience) who believes that the gifts of the Holy Spirit (as listed in 1Cor12v7-11) have ceased for they don't want that light to walk in as they are more than happy to sit in their spiritual darkness on this subject like the Pharisees did when the Lord Jesus was in the flesh, who believed that the Lord God had done miracles in the past and would do them again in the future, but did NOT do them in their present day, to them any miracles done was by Satanic power! Mark 3v22,28-30

These Pharisees who insist that spiritual gifts and spiritual ministries have ceased and are not for today, how is it that they pray for Divine healing? For this is a gift of healing. How is it that they pray for illumination upon a problem, or guidance from God? For this is a word of wisdom. How is it that they pray for ministers of the Gospel to receive the Holy Spirit's anointing? and for Satan's power to be lifted off people? and for people to be blessed? For these are the operations of the gift of faith. How is it that they pray for material needs to be met? For this is the province of the working of miracles. How is it that they pray for a revelation of God to the soul? For this is a discerning of spirits. How is it that they pray for an inspired utterance from God to help others? For this is the realm of prophecy. How is it that they pray for the Holy Spirit to inspire them in prayer? and then reject the gift of tongues, which is the Divine answer to this request. It is a fact that Christians who say that spiritual gifts have ceased to operate in the Church, actually pray for their manifestation. Those who reject spiritual gifts completely, have in reality tried to remove God's influence from His Church, and put it in the hands of men.

These present day Pharisees, certainly do fulfil 2Tim 3v5!

We must accept that God has decreed that we need these gifts, and not frustrate the wise and loving reasons for their manifestation.

Yahweh Shalom

 

[Gr8grace]

So, if someone were to come to you and tell you that they operated in this ceased gift, what would you say to them? Not only that, but they can give you testimonies of them speaking in tongues and an interpreter interpreting. They can share the conversations they have had with the Holy Spirit through tongues, where the Holy Spirit has fellowship with the tongue speaker and the interpreter. With all this to consider, what would you say to such a person operating in the gift of tongues if it has ceased today? How would your doctrinal belief make sense of their experience?

Thats the Jist of it with me Ben. I will not deny the experience of someone. But from the Word, I cannot VALIDATE it. I, nor can anyone else base truth on our experiences. Our experiences may be sincere and appear true to us. But our experience does not validate truth. Only the Word.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

"I would that ye all spake with tongues"... sure sounds like Paul was de-emphasizing the gift. Totally.

The gospel Paul wrote; all the epistles he wrote, the leadership letters he wrote - he wrote by revelation from Jesus Christ. How ya like that for manifesting the Spirit through word of wisdom and word of knowledge!!! - And he spoke in tongues "more than you all". . . "you" being in the plural - so meaning more than the whole Corinthian church . . . but yet: The blockbuster is this: What Paul condemns in the Corinthian church is the practice that you "tongues-speakers" claim is endorsed in the letter!