Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[BenFTW]

I think " run the race" is an analogy of striving. You know don't give up. It seems to me you aren't running the race, you just decided to stop

AceMichaels, the difference is in what we are running towards. It is not eternal life, but rewards. The idea of striving goes completely against the Gospel, specifically salvation by faith. The analogy of a race couldn't be more inappropriate to represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is by grace through faith. However, it is a good analogy to represent running towards a prize (rewards). We are speaking, of course, about the Bema seat of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:8-15King James Version (KJV)

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I put in bold some important points. Notice that all of this has to do with rewards? Yet, consider, even in verse 15 the person without works is still saved, "yet so as by fire." This is the security we have.

Its like in James that it says faith without works is dead. In other words, faith without works is useless. However, what is faith without works useless for? Rewards. At the Bema seat of Christ, your faith is unprofitable in and of itself to get you any rewards, but your works are the determining factor of what you'll get. Just as a body without a spirit is useless, so is faith without works useless. However, and notice, that there is still a body (without a spirit) and there is still faith (without works). It is just talking about the profit, what benefit is it to have faith without works? In regards to the Bema seat of Christ, not at all because works is the factor by which your rewards are determined.

 

[Willie-T]

You are only looking at it one sided though as it shows we have to love Him to with all our heart, soul, and mind.

His own words says those who love Him are those who keep His commandments, those who do not love Him do not keep His commandments.

Those who do not love Him will not get eternal life as that is clearly shown in the word of God.

I bolded the one phrase that always seems to be presented by this understanding. And that goes against everything I believe Jesus taught.

 

[Willie-T]

But I thought God Loved us while we were still sinners?

So God will ONLY Love us if first if you try to keep His rules?

Romans 5:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Interesting that God Loved us first. He did not demand we become sinless before He Loved us.

You are receiving it perfectly, KA.

 

[Willie-T]

I DO have some problems with the "rewards" outlook. I think that can become almost like "striving" for...... Maybe I am wrong, but I don't understand adding the competition aspect........ even if it is not competition against other people, it still seems like working to gain something.

 

[KenAllan]

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

There are Rewards for what we do.

 

[KenAllan]

Proverbs 11:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] The wicked man does deceptive work, But he who sows righteousness will have a sure reward.

 

[mpaper345]

When we are in the world we are sinners,although we can do good,but not entirely,and we can never fulfill God's law of love,which love is the fulfilling of the law.

When we confess Christ and repent of our sins truthfully,then all our sins are forgiven and not on our record,because the blood of Christ washes all those sins away.Then when we receive the Spirit we allow the Spirit to lead us to maintain that position,but we still have the capacity to sin if we desire to sin,but if we allow the Spirit to lead us we will act like Christ.

If we sin after we are saved,if we repent of it we will be forgiven for it.

The sins we repented of to be saved,we need not repent of those sins ever again,for all the past is forgiven,and all we have to do is repent of any sin we do after we are saved.If we live in sin and do not give it up,it is on our record and not forgiven,until we mean it to repent of it and not want it anymore.

The Bible says a Spirit led life is not under the law,which means if you are led of the Spirit you will act like Christ,therefore the law cannot touch you for prosecution,but if you sin you are back under the law,and if repented of that sin,and back to the Spirit leading you,you are not under the law again,but if you live in sin and will not give it up,you are back under the law,until it is repented of that sin and led of the Spirit again.

We confess Christ and repent of our sins,all sins are forgiven and off our record,there is no sins prior to that time on our record,and we never have to repent of those sins again,and we allow the Spirit to lead us,and if we sin we repent of that individual sin and it is forgiven.

 

[AceMichaels]

What is the Bema seat of Christ?

 

[AceMichaels]

Im confused, not really sure what your saying. Heaven is not a reward?

 

[Gr8grace]

I bolded the one phrase that always seems to be presented by this understanding. And that goes against everything I believe Jesus taught.

Im with you Willie.

Abba~~Is closely related to "Daddy"

How can a child love a Daddy that says," I will only love you under conditions and those conditions keep you as my child."


A Daddy loves his child.................because he is daddy.

God loves us because of who and what He is, not because of who and what we are.

 

[KenAllan]

God does love us, BUT He cannot allow sin to enter into Heaven. This is why He has put conditions on us.

Have you ever seen what happens when parents refuse to discipline their children?

This is why God disciplines us, to make us grow up straight, not crooked.

 

[AceMichaels]

Im with you Willie.

Abba~~Is closely related to "Daddy"

How can a child love a Daddy that says," I will only love you under conditions and those conditions keep you as my child."


A Daddy loves his child.................because he is daddy.

God loves us because of who and what He is, not because of who and what we are.

My earthly father is conditional

 

[Willie-T]

My earthly father is conditional

Mine was too. All the more reason to be crazy in love with God.

 

[Willie-T]

God does love us, BUT He cannot allow sin to enter into Heaven. This is why He has put conditions on us.

Have you ever seen what happens when parents refuse to discipline their children?

This is why God disciplines us, to make us grow up straight, not crooked.

Specifically, how has God disciplined you?

 

[AceMichaels]

Mine was too. All the more reason to be crazy in love with God.

My father is very Catholic and thinks its a sin for me to even walk into another church.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

There we have it, a DIRECT ANSWER which undercuts all rhetoric.

This individual literally believes that a serial killer, a thief, a child molester, an adulterer, a pornographer can be forgiven without having to forsake murdering, stealing, molesting, adultery, etc.

Even though the Bible says things like...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

...these people do not care. They think that one can "receive Jesus" and yet not be a doer of His word. The very word which saves the soul they do not believe that one has to conduct themselves in accordance with it.

What kind of Christianity is this? Is that the message Jesus preached to people?

Honestly, how so many people buy into this kind of obvious nonsense is simply astounding.

One can point to verses like this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

...yet they simply do not believe it. In their mind sin only has to be confessed not forsaken. They think a child molester can confess their child molestation to God and continue to molest children and actually be forgiven.

Think about that folks. Is that what you really want to uphold as the truth?

If you believe that how can you claim you are not a sin defender? Willie just argued in favour of being able to molest children and yet be in a reconciled state to God. That is astounding is it not?

The conclusions you draw, and the manner in which you draw them -- they're quite ridiculous.

Do you also conclude that addicts must cease their usage prior to seeking treatment?
Do you have to stop cutting yourself, before the blood flows?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and that minute this happens we are all in a state of a sinful nature.

Once one accepts the faith in the Lord they can no longer continue to be that way and must repent of those ways.

This may take some time with some depending on the sins or it could be handled quickly in other cases, but the standard is still the same and that is turning away from those sins to not commit them any more. And we are to allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to achieve that victory over those sins.

One can not continue to deliberately sin the rest of their lives (live carnally) and end up with eternal life !!!

Consider...

I don't know which way to go here but I do know that we are most likely sinning thousands of times a day without even realizing it and we can't possibly keep account.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I have spoken directly multitudes of pastors and every single one of them bar one told me that one can be "saved and forgiven" whilst one willfully engages in wickedness (like pornography for example).

That alone demonstrates to me that the current state of the professing church is dire when the people who preach from the pulpits each Sunday actually believe that one can engage in willful wickedness and not be condemned. No wonder wickedness pervades the churches. Just today yet another pastor near where I live was indicted on child pornography charges.

Directly huh? Multitudes huh?

What's with your fixation on pornography and child molesters? Is it simply the most disgusting thing you can think of?

You drop by this thread every so often and stir things up a bit, but you never quite display that you have honestly considered that which you are debating; it's a strawman conversation with you -- yet you point the strawman finger at others. Your latest "DIRECT ANSWER" post is just that -- a strawman argument; you took Willie-T's response and twisted his words to fit your agenda.

No one is advocating a license to sin, or willful rebellion -- please stop accusing people of such. I think it's great, if you want to discuss/debate the topics of salvation, sin, and repentance -- but let's not be the boy who cried wolf and let's not falsely manipulate others.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

II Corinthians 5:18-19

[h=1]Romans 11:36[/h]

 

[KenAllan]

Romans 6:1-23
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For he who has died has been freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If overcoming our desires to sin were so easy to do then Paul would not have written so much about us not sinning.