I suspect that the Holy Spirit's primary work is as a revealer of truth and the Angels' is more that of protector.
Because of the Angels
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I suspect that the Holy Spirit's primary work is as a revealer of truth and the Angels' is more that of protector.
Teaching I have heard states that a woman's compliance to a command to cover her head shows that she is of a submissive and obedient spirit. The Angels look down, see that some women are in compliance, and offer these women an extra measure of protection. This teaching sounds old fashioned and is not taught in mainline churches of modern day, but I think it holds together pretty well.
P
pottersclay
Guest
I am going to try to explain this the best I can so here it goes.
The Jews believed that the power of the women was in their hair, long hair represent strength and power such as the story of Samson or the Nazarene vow.
So long hair is a sign of power.
The Jews in Paul's day believed in a legend that the angels fell due to the beauty of the woman's long hair. They believed that when they have certain assemblies the angels are present and would be tempted by a women's unveiled hair to fall.
The Jews believed that the power of the women was in their hair, long hair represent strength and power such as the story of Samson or the Nazarene vow.
So long hair is a sign of power.
The Jews in Paul's day believed in a legend that the angels fell due to the beauty of the woman's long hair. They believed that when they have certain assemblies the angels are present and would be tempted by a women's unveiled hair to fall.
So you think Paul would be giving a command/injunction to the Church based on Jewish myth or fable?
B
BarlyGurl
Guest
T
Tintin
Guest
...well hmmm... what IF it isn't a myth or fable????
Oh, my. It definitely sounds like the stuff of myths/fables.
...well hmmm... what IF it isn't a myth or fable????
He calls one of the beliefs 'legend'.
Then when he says 'The Jews believed in Paul's day", this hints at their own writings e.g. Talmud. Jesus even rebuked them for holding to their own teachings/traditions over the Word of God.
In any case, no Scripture was given backing up their beliefs.
B
BarlyGurl
Guest
Tintin... there are people that make that summation about the entire bible.... garden, flood, the ark, parting of the red sea... all of it... myths and fables... that was what I was getting at.
P
pottersclay
Guest
Crossover the way it was explained to me that Paul to expound as a common ground thing rather than a command and teaching. The sect of Jews he was addressing did believe in this legend and thought if a women did not cover her head she would attract fallen angles as well as tempt angles to fall. More of a tradition brought into the Jewish belief.
Take it for what it worth but this is the answer i found. I have not read the whole text of his address and reason of his letter to see why he included this issue. But I do know that the Angels he is recurring to are believed to be angelic beings.
Just trying to shine a little light to help you out on what I found brother, you would pick a hard one now wouldn't you lol.
Take it for what it worth but this is the answer i found. I have not read the whole text of his address and reason of his letter to see why he included this issue. But I do know that the Angels he is recurring to are believed to be angelic beings.
Just trying to shine a little light to help you out on what I found brother, you would pick a hard one now wouldn't you lol.
I know we are taking some guesses at this but I was hoping our guesses had a little bit of Scriptural support and not simply tradition.
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.(1 Corinthians 11:3-10).
It is because of the authority structure of God,which angels are last in that authority structure,for they are ministering spirits to all those that shall inherit salvation.
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering(1 Corinthians 11:15).
Some people say that the covering is a veil,but the Bible plainly states that it is hair that is her covering.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered(1 Corinthians 11:5-6).
These scriptures also support that the covering is hair by talking of it being cut,by being shaven,which that would not refer to a veil.
Also the Bible says that a man should not have a covering,because he is in the image of God,and that a man should not have long hair.
The Bible is talking about hair when it refers to a covering.
Also Jesus was in the image of God,so He would of had short hair,and the only reason Samson could have long hair,because no one was in the image of God until Jesus came in that image,and people could have the Spirit and be in the image of God.
I know some people will say that it is legalistic to tell someone how they can have their hair,but what am I supposed to think when the Bible says the hair is a covering for the women,and men are not to have a covering,which would mean long hair.
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.(1 Corinthians 11:3-10).
It is because of the authority structure of God,which angels are last in that authority structure,for they are ministering spirits to all those that shall inherit salvation.
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering(1 Corinthians 11:15).
Some people say that the covering is a veil,but the Bible plainly states that it is hair that is her covering.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered(1 Corinthians 11:5-6).
These scriptures also support that the covering is hair by talking of it being cut,by being shaven,which that would not refer to a veil.
Also the Bible says that a man should not have a covering,because he is in the image of God,and that a man should not have long hair.
The Bible is talking about hair when it refers to a covering.
Also Jesus was in the image of God,so He would of had short hair,and the only reason Samson could have long hair,because no one was in the image of God until Jesus came in that image,and people could have the Spirit and be in the image of God.
I know some people will say that it is legalistic to tell someone how they can have their hair,but what am I supposed to think when the Bible says the hair is a covering for the women,and men are not to have a covering,which would mean long hair.
B
BarlyGurl
Guest
mpaper...
and an interesting note that every man I know of who got born again from rebellious living in adult life... went and got a haircut... did not change their clothes or "style"... but always got a haircut.
and an interesting note that every man I know of who got born again from rebellious living in adult life... went and got a haircut... did not change their clothes or "style"... but always got a haircut.
I
Is
Guest
Well, consider this:
"In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the........."angel of his presence"......saved them:"
Isaiah 63:9
Who is the "angel of his presence?
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt.18:19,20
"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:26,27
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Recieve ye the Holy Ghost:
John 20:22
Could it be possible that they believed Jesus in the form of the Holy Ghost as a ministering angel was in their presence at ther gatherings?
God has short hair? That's news to me.
Num. 6:1-21 tells us why Samson had long hair. Your ideas are not Scriptural at all. Adam (and Eve) was created in the image of God.
J
JesusistheChrist
Guest
Here's what Paul said:
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of god. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." (I Corinthians 11:3-16)
First of all, the context here is that of marriage in that the woman who was created for the man, Adam, was Eve and they were the first husband and wife. Here is God's Divine order:
God the Father is the head of Christ.
Christ is the head of the man or of the husband.
The man or the husband is the head of the woman or his wife.
The woman or the wife.
In the same manner in which a wife's husband has been given to her as her spiritual "head covering", her hair has been given to her as her natural "head covering". Paul's point was that if it's not a shame for a wife to usurp authority over her husband, her spiritual "head covering", then let her also shave her head or remove her natural "head covering". The vast, vast majority of wives would never do the latter, but many regularly do the former. Anyhow, the husband who allows his wife to usurp his God-given authority now has his head covered or he now has "long hair" in that the order is now as follows:
God
Christ
Wife
Husband
In this sense, the husband now has "long hair" in that his wife now covers his head and this is way out of line in God's sight and I believe that the angels are watching over the same and reporting it back to God.
My KJV bible says "the woman to have POWER on her head" not authority ..............not sure what this means tho
J
JesusistheChrist
Guest
The Greek word which is translated as "power" is "exousia" and it is translated as "authority" in 29 places in the KJV:
Greek Lexicon :: G1849 (KJV)
B
BarlyGurl
Guest
excellent... I am commenting with QUOTE cuz it I thought it needed repeated...AMEN AMEN!!!
A veil is a sign of authority on her head. I believe its a reference to having Christ as a covering to protect them from the fallen angels. "That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose" (Genesis 6:2). Jesus warned that it would be so again "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark" (Matthew 24:38). There's no sin in "marrying and giving in marriage", its been going on since the beginning, but the veil represents having the power of Christ as a covering for women, whereas the angels could not intermingle with them. jmo
J
JesusistheChrist
Guest
I'm sorry that it took me so long to get back to you on this, but here are some of my musings. Before I begin, let me state that I'm not seeking to pass what follows off as doctrine, but I personally strongly consider what I'm about to say to be true. Regarding "the eyes of the Lord", we read such things as these:Please do, if you get the chance! And thank you!JesusistheChrist said:
"His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" (Revelation 1:14)
"And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;" (Revelation 2:18)
"His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself." (Revelation 19:12)
Jesus' eyes are "as a flame of fire" and we read the following in relation to angels:
"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." (Hebrews 1:7)
Here is where it was originally said:
"Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:" (Psalm 104:4)
Both Jesus' eyes and angels are likened to "flames of fire", so I personally consider that there may indeed be a correlation between the two. We're also told the following about "the eyes of the Lord" in scripture:
"For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars." (II Chronicles 16:9)
"The eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth" and we read concerning angels:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (Job 1:6-7)
"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (Job 2:1-2)
Both the sons of God and Satan are angels and they are depicted as those who, like "the eyes of the LORD", "go to and fro in the earth". In relation to this, there's also this disputed passage to consider:
"For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth." (Zechariah 4:10)
Here, the prophet Zechariah spoke of "those seven" who "are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth". Well, before we look to see exactly who "those seven" are contextually, pause to ask yourself this question:
Does the LORD literally have SEVEN EYES?
I'm trusting that you realize that He doesn't, so who then are His "eyes"? Well, here are "those seven" of whom Zechariah was speaking contextually:
"Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day." (Zechariah 3:8-9)
Here, Zechariah spoke of both the LORD and His "seven eyes". "The BRANCH" is a commonly recognized name for the Lord Jesus Christ and He is also "the stone" of which Zechariah spoke. Upon this "stone", however, "shall be seven eyes" and, again, Zechariah went on to explain that "these seven are the eyes of the LORD which run to and fro through the whole earth" (Zechariah 4:10). I said that this passage is "disputed" because there are differences of opinion as to who these "seven eyes" are. Some would seek to attribute these "seven eyes" to the Holy Spirit by insisting that these "seven eyes" somehow represent seven different facets of the Holy Spirit's ministry, but I personally don't believe the same. Instead, I believe that these "seven eyes" are the "seven angels" that we read about in the book of Revelation. Here is another disputed passage from Revelation:
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." (Revelation 5:6)
Again, whoever these "seven eyes" are, they are "the seven spirits of God sent forth into all the earth". I took the liberty of not capitalizing "spirits" because it was the translators' own understandings which led them to capitalize it in the first place, but the "dispute" here, again, is this:
Are these "seven spirits" the "seven angels" that we regularly read about throughout the book of Revelation (my personal opinion) or are these "seven Spirits" some sort of "sevenfold" manifestation of the Holy Spirit (the opinion of many others)?
Heading back to Zechariah for a moment, I also consider this:
"And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth." (Zechariah 6:1-7)
Here, Zechariah saw "the four spirits of the heavens which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth" and these "four spirits" were determined to "walk to and fro through the earth". Who were these "spirits" if not some sort of angelic beings? Again, we see them "walking to and fro through the earth" even as "the eyes of the LORD" do the same. Is there a correlation? Personally, I strongly consider that there is. I also strongly consider the following:
"As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four." (Ezekiel 1:13-18)
"And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had." (Ezekiel 10:12)
Ezekiel saw "living creatures" whose "appearance was like burning coals of fire and like the appearance of lamps" and they had "wings" and they "were full of eyes". Are not these "living creatures" some sort of angelic beings? Again, their appearance certainly seems to match that of "flames of fire", doesn't it? Of course, my focus is upon them being "full of eyes". John saw something very similar as has been recorded for us in the book of Revelation:
"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." (Revelation 4:6-8)
Again, we see winged creatures who are "full of eyes within". Who are these winged creatures if not some sort of angelic beings? I also throw the following into the mix:
"I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men." (Daniel 4:13-17)
Here, Daniel spoke of "watchers" who were "holy ones who came down from heaven" and Daniel was contacted by angels more than once in his lifetime so I have good reason to believe that these "watchers" were indeed angels.
There are other verses which I consider as well, but that's pretty much the gist of it. Again, I'm not putting this forth as doctrine, but I do strongly consider these things that I've described here to be the truth.
I'm sorry that it took me so long to get back to you. I hope that it was worth the wait.
Btw, I love your avatar.
Last edited: