Rich and Famous Pastors

[ladylynn]

Ok fair enough, but answer this for me. Do you think good ol' Joel's actions in spending money this way leads more people to Christ or turns more people off to Jesus completely? In the face of all the starving people in this world, is that really the most Christ like example of how to deal with money? I think I'd literally have to either remove my thinking mind, or be completely ignorant to Christ message to think his example was in any way what Christ taught, but people love money so someone comes along and says "God wants you to have all the "better things" in life, so people flock to it, not because of there love for God, but for the love of a God they make up. Reread the gospels and show me where Jesus told us we'd have our "best life now", please.

The thing is Christians are slandered all the time especially the ones who are having an effect on the world., you can bet they will be slandered the most since they are "out there" in the public eye the most. Having money doesn't mean we love it. Many believers are actually very good at taking what God gives and allowing it to flow through them to others. And God blesses them even more because they know how to hold on to things with a lose hand. They have experienced God's blessings and know that God's hand is very generous. So they have learned to also be generous.

Sure., we are not in Joel O. price bracket but neither are we giving out from his price bracket. The truth of sowing and reaping is specific to financial issues. Many believers do believe in tithing knowing how it works it is an opportunity to honor God. We honor God with the first fruits of our substance knowing He has already provided for us and will provide because we can't out give God. Then we learn to give even more and become "channels" of blessings to the poor and needy.

No one in this chat room knows what other believers do with all their money or their motives. How do people know if Joel O. for instance gives in the proportion God has blessed him? Frankly I do believe that is the case with not only Joel but with many other wealthy Christians., and God continues to bless them knowing it goes out of their hands freely. We are blessed to be a blessing.

You don't know if Joel already gives to starving people in this world and what he does in his community., and most probably a lot of money is given based on how blessed he is. I've been around rich believers and have seen how generous they are and they don't go about telling the world about it. They allow God to get the glory.

I will look at it this way because I have seen God's generous hand in my own life and know He is not lacking for money. I think God has surely blessed Joel O. so much so that Joel has tons extra to buy a huge house with the chump change.

The Bible says to trust the Lord and allow Him to be our shield and buckler. Don't lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where dust and moth corrupts... That is allowing the flowing of God's blessings like a flowing stream that does not get stagnant and stays fresh. Use the treasures for the kingdom of God. Give the small things and God can trust you to give the even bigger things. Joel seems to have done just that.

 

[ladylynn]

No that is how my finances are really divided.

Notice how I said I pay my normal bills to live first, and then what is left over after that is divided in that way.
Most goes to my two boys and little girl, another goes to my spouse, and what is left goes to family and others who are in need and a small percentage goes to my self.






By who's definition ???

By the Word of God it says building up on personal possessions and treasure on earth is wrong, for we are called to edifying and esteem others. God loves a cheerful giver, He shows selfishness and doing things for only self gain (greed) is sinful natures.

You say again we can not judge which is correct, but calling one out for how they are wrongfully living in lavishness while allowing others to suffer is not judging.

We are told in the bible we have every right to point out how others are walking improperly in the faith or teaching falsely.

Then we are to show them by His word the proper way to walk, and I will ask again how many people do you know who are rich if they were told to sell off all they had and give it to the poor would do it ???

Plus I don't see or hear to many homeless people being allowed to come in there and stay in there houses, which is also stated in the bible that we are to do. I would say a 10 million dollar home has plenty of room for a number of homeless people.

Send some homeless people their way to these rich pastors and see if they welcome them in or send them away !!!

Please read my post to Jimbone. It also covers your post. And on a side note, not all of us have been called to give up our homes and have people come live with us. I couldn't do that although I've thought of it and tried it and it didn't work at all. It's sort of like if you lose your home base, how can you be strong to help others.

As it's been said before, one persons lavishness is another persons idea of low income. That is why we have to let God be God. Only He knows who is using the blessings He has given properly. I would not call anyone out about their use of money because their lives are their own business with God. God is more than able to deal with His own children. He didn't call me to be someones mini holyspirit.

And I'm sure you don't hear a lot of how Joel O. obeys God and gives to the poor. And you probably won't hear it unless you know his close friends. We may know something about a person.. or think we do., but we don't know ALL about that person and for that reason we should not judge by the outward appearances. It is just waaaay too easy to do that.

 

[ladylynn]

Yes some others may judge ladylynn on her $80 dollar shoes, but once again it comes down to this, she said her shoes are for comfort at work. Well one has to work to support their family and comfort/health is a needed to do a job right.

However one does not need to live in a 10 million dollar home to support their family, that is excess !!!

But what if I didn't buy $80 shoes for work and just bought them to be comfortable? Should I have instead gotten Dr.Shoels and not be as comfortable and give the rest to a poor person. Or should I have just worn the shoes I already have since some people don't even have shoes....And if I really loved the poor and if you really loved the poor, should we give our homes to them and be homeless ourselves?? This is just not feasible to dance on this needle head of when to judge/when not to judge.

 

[Mo0448]

Once again I am not basing just solely on the cost of his house, but does he really need that big and costly of a house to live comfortably? No he does not !!!

We are called to serve others not be served, and we are to use the Lord's example to go by.

Jesus family line was a rich lineage as Joseph came from the line of King David which had riches, but Jesus left all that to serve others. He could of ruled through the standing and riches that His family line came from, but instead He showed we are to humble ourselves and separate from the rest of the world.

Yes God does bless some with riches but He does it for the purpose for them to edify and serve others better, not for personal selfish wants and greed.

Once again we can not place carnal thinking that men have toward money over what the Lord's standard is.
A person who has only $50 dollars and gives all $50 to feed others compared to a person who has $10,000 and only uses $2,000 to feed others, according to the Lord the one with $50 dollars did more.

Does one need a sportscar? Does one need anything? If we start looking at it from this stance Ken (not that I don't disagree with the point of your post) where do we draw the line? Should I refuse to buy a better quality item that may be a little more expensive because I don't want to be "vain"? Should I wear the lower quality clothing because buying the more expensive kind i could give that money to the poor? I guess my question is where do "we" as Christians draw the line? I've seen what people would consider "rich" individuals drive very nice cars and yet also live very philanthropist lifestyles giving away to charity and helping those in need? Is it not about where your heart is to help as opposed to the "value" or amount of money you provide to help those in need? Did Jesus not say the woman that gave the 2 copper coins gave more than the rich men who walked into the synagogue with bags of gold coins? It's a heart issue not necessarily a "how much money" issue.

I've seen people living on less who are much more selfish and greedy and materialistic than those who have much more to live off of...

To add According to the Lord the one that gave $50 dollars did DO MORE...you are misinterpreting the scriptures...the woman who gave less gave with her heart as opposed to out of duty like the rich men who gave of their left overs...

The bible doesn't tell us to not have money but stresses that money should not have us! We should all Look in the mirror and ask ourselves who is our God? Is it Jesus Christ or is it our savings account?

 

[KennethC]

But what if I didn't buy $80 shoes for work and just bought them to be comfortable? Should I have instead gotten Dr.Shoels and not be as comfortable and give the rest to a poor person. Or should I have just worn the shoes I already have since some people don't even have shoes....And if I really loved the poor and if you really loved the poor, should we give our homes to them and be homeless ourselves?? This is just not feasible to dance on this needle head of when to judge/when not to judge.

We are not to deal in what if hypothetical situations, we are to let our yes be yes and our no be no.

We do not have to give up our houses to them but God's word does say we are to give them shelter, feed them, and give them clothing if they need. We are not to just ignore them and send them on their way, as even Apostle James says if a person tells them to go in peace but does not give them the things they need then that type a person has a dead faith that does not lead to eternal life.

Once again as always and I say this out of love, that please learn the difference between judging and rebuking or reproving as they are not one and the same. As we are called not to judge by the Lord (Matthew 7:1) and by Paul to not judge anybody before the Lord returns (1 Corinthians 4:5).

 

[KennethC]

Please read my post to Jimbone. It also covers your post. And on a side note, not all of us have been called to give up our homes and have people come live with us. I couldn't do that although I've thought of it and tried it and it didn't work at all. It's sort of like if you lose your home base, how can you be strong to help others.

As it's been said before, one persons lavishness is another persons idea of low income. That is why we have to let God be God. Only He knows who is using the blessings He has given properly. I would not call anyone out about their use of money because their lives are their own business with God. God is more than able to deal with His own children. He didn't call me to be someones mini holyspirit.

And I'm sure you don't hear a lot of how Joel O. obeys God and gives to the poor. And you probably won't hear it unless you know his close friends. We may know something about a person.. or think we do., but we don't know ALL about that person and for that reason we should not judge by the outward appearances. It is just waaaay too easy to do that.

Nobody is saying give up your home, but we are called in the bible to share our house to give them shelter when they need it and that is for everybody to do. The bible says if you send them on their way without helping them your faith is a dead faith.

I know Osteen does do some things and I have never he didn't do anything, but what I did say is with his kind of money he could be doing a lot more for God by helping others. And the bible does say to one who much is given much more will be required of that person.

Also like the bible gives as an example of the rich and woman in poverty; If Osteen gives 1 million a year when he has 10 million to give to help those in need while another who only has $500 to give for those in need and gives that whole $500. The Lord would say the one with the $500 gave more because they held nothing back for themselves.

 

[KennethC]

Does one need a sportscar? Does one need anything? If we start looking at it from this stance Ken (not that I don't disagree with the point of your post) where do we draw the line? Should I refuse to buy a better quality item that may be a little more expensive because I don't want to be "vain"? Should I wear the lower quality clothing because buying the more expensive kind i could give that money to the poor? I guess my question is where do "we" as Christians draw the line? I've seen what people would consider "rich" individuals drive very nice cars and yet also live very philanthropist lifestyles giving away to charity and helping those in need? Is it not about where your heart is to help as opposed to the "value" or amount of money you provide to help those in need? Did Jesus not say the woman that gave the 2 copper coins gave more than the rich men who walked into the synagogue with bags of gold coins? It's a heart issue not necessarily a "how much money" issue.

I've seen people living on less who are much more selfish and greedy and materialistic than those who have much more to live off of...

To add According to the Lord the one that gave $50 dollars did DO MORE...you are misinterpreting the scriptures...the woman who gave less gave with her heart as opposed to out of duty like the rich men who gave of their left overs...

The bible doesn't tell us to not have money but stresses that money should not have us! We should all Look in the mirror and ask ourselves who is our God? Is it Jesus Christ or is it our savings account?

You are stating exactly what I said that it is not a how much issue, but you are also saying I am misrepresenting scripture by the $50 dollar mention.

That is not misrepresentation because that is taking a now day philosophy and applying it to that scripture of the woman in poverty who gave 2 mites which was all she had to those who were rich who just gave a percentage of what they had.

Do you not think that if a person only has $50 on them and they give away that whole 50 to the needed their heart is in that ???

Yes greed and selfishness is not just a rich issue but like the bible shows it does come easier when one has more to give, and the word shows that when a person has been blessed to have more it is because more is required of them.

Merchandising and society lies to people by telling you just because it costs more you are getting better quality products.
I learned very quickly growing up that just because you pay more does not mean you are getting better stuff, and the other big lie that happens in the world is confusing wants as needs.

I do believe it is a heart issue as well and we can tell by how they give or how much they give if their heart is truly in the right place. We also must remember that some people who have money give only for the reason to get a tax break, and in that case it would be wrong as well for it would not be for the love of others but for self.

 

[pottersclay]

Ok so should I throw it higher or not at all?

 

[KennethC]

Ok so should I throw it higher or not at all?

Go and find a bunch of homeless and stand within them and then throw it in the air, and then see what God lets you keep.

 

[pottersclay]

Been living off 98cents a week for the past 20 yrs. Lol

 

[pottersclay]

saving up to buy a 11 million dollar house.

 

[shotgunner]

Been living off 98cents a week for the past 20 yrs. Lol

Maybe you should try Luke 6:38 instead.

 

[Abing]

Philippians 1:17-18. Christ is preached. As long as the preacher leads people to Christ and His Word, I don't see why it matters what *we* think about it.

God draws all men to Him. God's ways are so much higher than our ways. Also, we will never be in the position to judge.

 

[KennethC]

Philippians 1:17-18. Christ is preached. As long as the preacher leads people to Christ and His Word, I don't see why it matters what *we* think about it.

God draws all men to Him. God's ways are so much higher than our ways. Also, we will never be in the position to judge.

Again there is a difference in rebuking or reproving another in the faith and judging another, they are not one in the same as we are told not to judge but we can and are told to rebuke and reprove another when they are not walking properly in the faith.

It also does matter if what they say does not align with scripture or is twisted out of context, and in this case we are to warn others to be careful in listening to them as Apostle Paul says by the Holy Spirit we are made as overseers of the flock and false teaching can lead one to perdition instead of eternal life.

 

[Abing]

Again there is a difference in rebuking or reproving another in the faith and judging another, they are not one in the same as we are told not to judge but we can and are told to rebuke and reprove another when they are not walking properly in the faith.

How do we know they are not walking properly in the faith? We have not seen what's in their hearts. How do we evaluate someone's walk, if it's 'proper' or not?

We have seen the fruits though. Not that I know any of these preachers personally, all I've seen is the fruit. I have seen people's lives saved. And that's something to celebrate. I suppose if we are concerned that they are 'misleading' people, are we doing something about it? Or are we praying that God rebukes them in a way that they will hear?

It also does matter if what they say does not align with scripture or is twisted out of context, and in this case we are to warn others to be careful in listening to them as Apostle Paul says by the Holy Spirit we are made as overseers of the flock and false teaching can lead one to perdition instead of eternal life.

This is interesting to me. How do we know if they are the ones twisting the scripture, and not us? And I meant to ask this in all honesty. I suppose they claim that they have the Holy Spirit in them too. So, who is right? I guess this is where we go back to John 13:35 "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." I see them doing this out of love, love for God and for one another. But that's just from what I see with my own eyes. I may be wrong, but the Holy Spirit has not convicted me to rebuke them.

 

[jamie26301]

This is interesting to me. How do we know if they are the ones twisting the scripture, and not us? And I meant to ask this in all honesty. I suppose they claim that they have the Holy Spirit in them too. So, who is right? I guess this is where we go back to John 13:35 "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." I see them doing this out of love, love for God and for one another. But that's just from what I see with my own eyes. I may be wrong, but the Holy Spirit has not convicted me to rebuke them.

Clearly there are other believers out there just as crazy as I am.

You (generic you) can have your doctrines all in a neat row. They could be sound, thorough, and reasonable.

But if you can give your body to be burned, and it profit you nothing without love, I don't see then how the correct interpretation yields you any more benefit if you don't love the person you communicate this to.

 

[posthuman]

Ok so should I throw it higher or not at all?

Go and find a bunch of homeless and stand within them and then throw it in the air, and then see what God lets you keep.

perhaps we should set ourselves below everyone else, then throw our gifts upward

 

[posthuman]

saving up to buy a 11 million dollar house.

how great is it that our LORD is a carpenter?

building a house for us in glory, building us into a house for His own glory to dwell in!

".. that money can't buy"

 

[ladylynn]

We are not to deal in what if hypothetical situations, we are to let our yes be yes and our no be no.

We do not have to give up our houses to them but God's word does say we are to give them shelter, feed them, and give them clothing if they need. We are not to just ignore them and send them on their way, as even Apostle James says if a person tells them to go in peace but does not give them the things they need then that type a person has a dead faith that does not lead to eternal life.

Once again as always and I say this out of love, that please learn the difference between judging and rebuking or reproving as they are not one and the same. As we are called not to judge by the Lord (Matthew 7:1) and by Paul to not judge anybody before the Lord returns (1 Corinthians 4:5).

We are all in agreement that we are called to help the poor. As far as I can see all people here all agree on that. What we don't agree on is whether we can judge a Joel O. on his heart attitude based on his finances and what he buys and if that means he does or does not have a heart for God. (and people)

Judging and rebuking? None of us are in a place to rebuke or reprove people we have no personal relationship or knowledge of. In any relationship, we earn the right to reprove or rebuke one another who we have a relationship with, and even then we should do it very carefully because we don't know everything. There is a major process before rushing in with the rebuking and reproving "gifts" Generally Pastors and leaders in the local churches are called to this. Reproving and rebuking is yet another thing we should take very seriously.

Actually all this speculation about rich people like Joel O. or any of the well known preachers is all hypothetical because no one in these chat rooms knows the personal lives of these well known believers,. except what can be seen like the houses they have or the clothes they wear etc.. etc... it's just a bunch of speculation based on what you can see.

Instead we should always give our brothers and sisters in Christ the benefit of the doubt and think well of them instead of jumping on the band wagon of unsaved public opinion. We of all people should show love for one another as Abing pointed out in her post.

Anyway., I feel like this is beating a dead horse of a topic. We each have our own opinion about this so lets agree to disagree.

 

[YuriBrown1234567]

Ezekiel 34
Matthew 7:15-20