Do we contend for the faith or contend for our doctrine?

[LT]

Humanity is sick with the deadly disease of sin.

Satan says "surely you will not die".

Christ heals the disease.

See the difference.
One makes excuses. The other makes the remedy.

 

[wattie]

Jesus NEVER excused sin. He forgave it, and said "Go, and sin no more".
Why would we excuse our own?

Is perfection obtainable? No, as we are still in fleshly bodies of imperfection.
Must we be "re-saved"? No, as no one can crucify Christ again.
Must we be brought back into repentance? Yes!!

I am not saying sin is excused.. like no consequence. Jesus commands saved people to follow Him. He rebukes them, disciplines them.. loves them to want them to return to following Him.

That doesn't mean they never go astray. I am sure you have 'gone astray' occasionally in your own walk with Jesus. And I KNOW you wouldn't say that means you weren't one of His sheep to begin with.

I am saying is there is nothing in our walk with Jesus that gets us eternal life to begin with. Jesus still wants us to follow Him of course.

I know ....

The calvinist teaching is the God pre-ordains someone to be converted.. and walk with Jesus and endure to the end. So if the person isn't enduring to the end.. then they weren't pre-ordained.. and aren't saved..

But I can't see this in the bible.

Predestination is either about the fact a place in heaven is pre-set for someone who trust in Jesus as their Saviour.. or about the fact Jesus has pre-set the institution of His churches for a saved person to join.. and these churches have a pre-set destiny in Revelation.

That is predestination.. it's not about predestining some to heaven and some to hell.. and those predestined to heaven will endure to the end!

 

[wattie]

He followed Him. No one can deny that his words were an action of Faith.
He did not sit quietly, thinking about how Jesus was not deserving of death,
but spoke aloud.

I agree that the predestined are secure, even when astray... but that security is not a safe haven for sin. No!
To the stray ones, it is fire, and conviction.
If a person is comfortably astray, are they even hearing the voice of the Shepherd?

No. There is NO assurance for the one who is astray. Only God knows. Not the individual. Don't risk such pride.

I agree with all of this..

Just not the predestination of only those who will do good works.

 

[BradC]

There is one thing that every believer must get straight, ALL SIN FOR ALL MEN HAS BEEN JUDGED AND PAID FOR THROUGH THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE ISOLATED SIN THAT HAS NOT BEEN JUDGED THROUGH HIS DEATH, THE CROSS. With that understanding of the doctrine of Christ, we have the right faith and like minded faith that is mutual with all blood bought redeemed sinners who have been justified from all sin. This is the faith and gospel we contend for and it is our doctrine, the doctrine of Jesus Christ and him crucified.

 

[LT]

I agree with all of this..

Just not the predestination of only those who will do good works.

But how can you believe in OSAS, and not predestination?
That is not a possible position, from a Biblical perspective.

Predestination is the ONLY Biblical support for OSAS.

 

[LT]

There is one thing that every believer must get straight, ALL SIN FOR ALL MEN HAS BEEN JUDGED AND PAID FOR THROUGH THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE ISOLATED SIN THAT HAS NOT BEEN JUDGED THROUGH HIS DEATH, THE CROSS. With that understanding of the doctrine of Christ, we have the right faith and like minded faith that is mutual with all blood bought redeemed sinners who have been justified from all sin. This is the faith and gospel we contend for and it is our doctrine, the doctrine of Jesus Christ and him crucified.

So then, for what sin can an unbeliever be judged?

 

[wattie]

But how can you believe in OSAS, and not predestination?
That is not a possible position, from a Biblical perspective.

Predestination is the ONLY Biblical support for OSAS.

I do believe in predestination. Biblically it is for a preset place in heaven for all who entrust their salvation with Jesus and is also about God having preset his churches for saved people to serve in

 

[BradC]

So then, for what sin can an unbeliever be judged?

Those who continue in the sins and dead works of the flesh have not been cleansed from their sin. The wages of sin has been judged through the death of Christ on the the cross but the unbeliever must be cleansed in the conscience from those dead works by the blood through faith in the cross of Christ (1 John 1:7, Heb 9:14, 10:17-22, Rom 3:25, Acts 10:43). Without being cleansed there is no remission of sin for the individual unbeliever and he will and be judged as a worker of iniquity having had no relationship with God through the redemption and justification that is in Christ (Rom 3:24). The unbeliever will be judged according to his works that is written in the books that are opened in Rev 20:11-15...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[p_rehbein]

The equation is not Faith + Works = Salvation.
It is Faith = Salvation + Works.

Try this formula:

Grace through faith = Salvation........good works are a fruit of salvation which = sanctification

 

[p_rehbein]

He followed Him. No one can deny that his words were an action of Faith.
He did not sit quietly, thinking about how Jesus was not deserving of death,
but spoke aloud.

I agree that the predestined are secure, even when astray... but that security is not a safe haven for sin. No!
To the stray ones, it is fire, and conviction.
If a person is comfortably astray, are they even hearing the voice of the Shepherd?

No. There is NO assurance for the one who is astray. Only God knows. Not the individual. Don't risk such pride.

These reveal the error in Calvin's teachings. I do not believe Calvin's teachings......just to be clear.

 

[notuptome]

It's not an argument it's a distinguishing.

There is only one true doctrine, and that is to trust and believe that everything God has ever spoken is still in effect to the very day. We live by His every word. Anything short of that is really not of faith. Just for edifications sake, keep tabs on the number of professing Christians that desire this or that part of scripture to be obsolete, and you can tell right off which doctrines are contending for themselves, and are not of faith. (Romans 3:31 and John 5:46-47)

Well then distinguish that our faith we have received from Christ and not of ourselves.

I do not keep tabs on other Christians. I have enough to keep tabs on me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-me]

Then Adonai said:“Because these people approach me with empty words,
and the honor they bestow on me is mere lip-service;
while in fact they have distanced their hearts from me,
and their ‘fear of me’ is just a mitzvah of human origin

Isaiah 29:13Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)