Render unto Cesar.........

[KennethC]

Okay... from my perspective that is... MINCING WORDS. He either GAVE HIMSELF UP as the lamb of God or NOT... and he was NOT murdered... he was executed under false accusation of civil CRIME... so now we can argue the word mincing circle... beyond the mincing already going on here.

So executing a person who was not guilty is not murder, RIGHT !!!

Shakes head !!!

 

[BarlyGurl]

I will still contend for how the Lord Jesus has told us to live, and that is show love, mercy, and forgiveness to others as He has shown us.

Siding with the death penalty is in no way mercy or forgiveness, and the only way it could even be considered as such is if the person who committed the crime personally asks to be shown mercy by putting him death.

By what you are saying if you were alive when Apostle Paul was around, you would have wanted him in prison and put to death also. For he was guilty of persecuting and killing Christians before he converted, one of which was Stephen.

Lord Jesus showed him mercy and thus he was never put to death for his crimes of murder............

That's right paul was a PHARISEE persecuting CHRISTIANS....was he arrested or on TRIAL for murder, WAS he on death ROW??? NO, NO and NO.... was he willing to DIE when he was put in prison... YES.... was he ever ROBBED of an opportunity to CONVERT...NO! Did paul go around preaching DOWN WITH THE DEATH PENALTY???? NO he preached Be converted to Christ!!! Did everybody who heard convert... likely not... did they perish?... regrettably some did.
Barly is still unmoved by your zeal... impressed... but not moved.

 

[AceMichaels]

Okay... from my perspective that is... MINCING WORDS. He either GAVE HIMSELF UP as the lamb of God or NOT... and he was NOT murdered... he was executed under false accusation of civil CRIME... so now we can argue the word mincing circle... beyond the mincing already going on here.

Isn't death under false accusation murder? I'm not mincing words, murder is murder

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Jesus wasn't murdered... HE GAVE HIMSELF.

Jesus told those who sought to kill Him that they were doing the lusts or fulfilling the desires of their father, the devil, who was a MURDERER from the beginning:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

The Greek word "anthrōpoktonos" which is translated as "murderer" only appears in two other places in the entire New Testament in the following verse:

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (I John 3:15)

Jesus was crucified by MURDERERS...and they are the very first ones whom He sent His disciples to preach to after His resurrection from the dead. Stephen prayed that God would not let the sin of his MURDERERS be laid to their charge as they were stoning him to death. Would you or anybody else like to show me where Jesus' disciples went out and avenged the blood of Stephen in alleged fulfillment of the Genesis verse that's being wildly thrown about on this thread? For crying out loud, Paul watched the clothes of them who stoned Stephen and he later became possibly the greatest apostle of all time. Perhaps Peter, James, John or somebody else should have offed his head first? Some people here don't know what manner of spirit they're of:

"And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." (Luke 9:51-56)

 

[KennethC]

That's right paul was a PHARISEE persecuting CHRISTIANS....was he arrested or on TRIAL for murder, WAS he on death ROW??? NO, NO and NO.... was he willing to DIE when he was put in prison... YES.... was he ever ROBBED of an opportunity to CONVERT...NO! Did paul go around preaching DOWN WITH THE DEATH PENALTY???? NO he preached Be converted to Christ!!! Did everybody who heard convert... likely not... did they perish?... regrettably some did.
Barly is still unmoved by your zeal... impressed... but not moved.

Apostle Paul was redeemed by the Lord which is why he never faced death for his sin of murder, as David and Moses also was.

So would you let a murderer off of death role and let them be released back into society if they repent ???

If your answer is no, why ???

The Lord our God let David, Moses, and Paul be forgiven of murder and not face capital punishment for their crimes, as well as there have been others throughout time He has done the same. So if the Lord forgives people who murder, why don't you ???

 

[crossnote]

It is not really a deterrent. Murder rates are not falling

That's liberal dribble.
The greater the punishment...the greater the deterrent unless you have a society of masochists.

 

[KennethC]

That's liberal dribble.
The greater the punishment...the greater the deterrent unless you have a society of masochists.

Yeah I guess that is why the # of people going to prison is at a all time high now days then ever before, because the greater punishments are deterring them. Not likely, actually the more strict laws and government gets the more pissed off people become and act out against the authorities.

The prison systems are over crowed now days which is why a lot of them are letting some out early because they don't have the room to hold all these people.

 

[crossnote]

I'm sorry, but you're totally, totally wrong on this one. For starters, whether you or anybody else likes it or not, Paul taught that the law was given that every mouth might be stopped and that the whole world might become guilty before God (Romans 3:19)...and the whole world includes the Gentiles. For crying out loud, what got John the Baptist beheaded? It was telling a GENTILE king that it wasn't "lawful" for him to take his brother's wife. According to what "law"? THE LAW OF MOSES. Seriously, some people are so steeped in error that's been propagated BY THE CHURCH that they can't even see what's right before their own eyes in their own Bibles. Furthermore, are you insinuating that the woman who was caught in adultery was a Gentile? Upon what do you base that?

The woman caught in adultery was Jewish under the Mosaic Law, the gentiles only come under the Mosaic law if they desire to be part of the Commonwealth of Israel. Then as males they must start with circumcision.
But in your vain grasping, you're getting off topic.

 

[KennethC]

The woman caught in adultery was Jewish under the Mosaic Law, the gentiles only come under the Mosaic law if they desire to be part of the Commonwealth of Israel. Then as males they must start with circumcision.
But in your vain grasping, you're getting off topic.

Acts 15 disagrees with your thinking here, as it says Gentile believers do not have to submit to be circumcised by the law.

 

[crossnote]

Yeah I guess that is why the # of people going to prison is at a all time high now days then ever before, because the greater punishments are deterring them. Not likely, actually the more strict laws and government gets the more pissed off people become and act out against the authorities.

The prison systems are over crowed now days which is why a lot of them are letting some out early because they don't have the room to hold all these people.

More liberal dribble. Criminals no longer fear jail/prison...they end up living pretty well off thank you.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Guess you never read of the countless times God told Israel to put such and such person and or nation to death.
God could have done it Himself.

"And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:1-8)

"When the Son of man comes" or when Jesus Christ returns, He will avenge His elect who have been crying out to Him day and night IN PRAYER speedily. Notice His question, though:

"When the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?"

What type of "faith" was Jesus referring to contextually? To me, it seems as if He was referring specifically to the type of "faith" which DOESN'T AVENGE ITSELF, but which patiently and PRAYERFULLY waits upon the Lord for "Vengeance belongs unto the Lord" and not unto any of us. Do I believe that governments have been given the power or authority to execute God's wrath upon the wicked? Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. This does not mean, however, that I have to be a participant in the same. We'll all give individual accounts for our own lives and I'm personally determined to expend my efforts in sharing the gospel with people as opposed to seeking to have them executed. I would never consent to the death sentence as a juror...not even if one of my own loved ones had been murdered by the person on trial. I know that that's easy to say when it's not presently a reality, but I believe that I would remain faithful to my present convictions no matter what. There are some lines from the movie "Ben-Hur" that I'm always reminded of when these types of conversations arise. You know (if you've seen the movie), the time when Esther says to Judah Ben-Hur:

"I know there is a law in life that blood begets more blood as dog begets dog. Death generates death. The vulture breeds the vulture. But the voice I heard on the hill today said, 'Love your enemy. Do good to those who spitefully use you.'"

I guess that to some "Love your enemy" means executing him. Go figure.

 

[crossnote]

REFOCUS GENTS...

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

This has no more been rescinded than the animals being instilled with the fear of man...

Genesis 9:2 (KJV) And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

 

[AceMichaels]

That's liberal dribble.
The greater the punishment...the greater the deterrent unless you have a society of masochists.

Liberal dribble? I'm not a liberal, but I see how you see people now. My dad is like you. You're either liberal or conservative. Boring conversations. Maybe you can come watch Fox news with my dad and both scream at the tv

 

[JesusistheChrist]

The woman caught in adultery was Jewish under the Mosaic Law, the gentiles only come under the Mosaic law if they desire to be part of the Commonwealth of Israel. Then as males they must start with circumcision.
But in your vain grasping, you're getting off topic.

My "vain grasping"? How about your abysmal Biblical ignorance instead? Again, you've apparently been so brainwashed that you cannot even understand what you read in your own Bible.

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:23-29)

Contextually, who are these "we" who "were kept under the law" or who had "the law as a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ"? If you answer "just Jews", then you answer incorrectly. The whole Bible speaks against your ignorance. Remove your blinders and stop mocking those who are trying to help you. "The law" was originally given to the Jews, no doubt, but they were instructed to share it with EVERYBODY AND THEY DID. What Bible are you reading? Is it possible that you're so blind that you cannot read what's all throughout the pages of your own Bible? Again, why was John the Baptist beheaded? What got Herod's "wife" so upset? Was Herod a Jew or a Gentile? Try reading the Bible.

 

[crossnote]

I did not say jury duty was forbidden, but when serving on jury duty do we side with man on death penalty or do we go with the Lord to show mercy and forgiveness ??? We are to obey the Lord our God over man and show the mercy and forgiveness !!!

.

Side with man on the death penalty?? How about side with God on the death penalty or side with bleeding heart liberals in showing more compassion to the criminals than the victim?

"Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image. (Gen 9:6)

Or is man no longer in God's image?

 

[crossnote]

What were Christ's instructions to His disciples in relation to those who were guilty of MURDERING HIM? Perhaps in your Bible He commissioned His disciples to go out and kill them? In my Bible, He commissioned His disciples to go and preach the gospel to them AND THEY DID.

Apples and Oranges...

"Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image.
(Gen 9:6)

 

[AceMichaels]

Side with man on the death penalty?? How about side with God on the death penalty or side with bleeding heart liberals in showing more compassion to the criminals than the victim?

"Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image. (Gen 9:6)

Or is man no longer in God's image?

Yep, just like my dad. I bet you listen to Rush Limbo too!

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Side with man on the death penalty?? How about side with God on the death penalty or side with bleeding heart liberals in showing more compassion to the criminals than the victim?

"Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image. (Gen 9:6)

Or is man no longer in God's image?

Why wasn't King David put to death?

 

[Yonah]

hey jesusisthechrist not my words if you have an issue take it up with the author....

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Apples and Oranges...

"Whoever sheds human blood, by a human his own blood is to be shed; because God made human beings in his own image.
(Gen 9:6)

No, more like more baloney from you. Again, why wasn't King David put to death? Your answer would be...?