I have question, an honest one.
Sure, we tell the truth in love and we try to motivate others, esp our breathren to make more loving and godly choices in life. And we share God's love and salvation. I do see that, all over Scripture.
However, where did either an Apostle or Jesus (let's avoid the whole Jesus "fulfilled the Law" controversy)... where in the NT are we ever commanded to teach or enforce Christian morals by force?
I mean distinctly Christian practices - universal ethics is not what I'm asking about. I don't mean excommunication, shunning or any of this. I mean, where are we commanded to force others by the tip of the sword (gov) to obey God? Where did Jesus ever use force (not rebuke, but enacting a tangible penalty) to make one comply with God's standards?
Why would Someone who teaches against retaliation (turn the other cheek) approve of forcing people to behave a certain way?
Since we are drawing all these things from God's word, surely you can point to where this is commanded, of even encouraged?
And I don't accept Romans 13, because the context does not lend to that notion.
Concerning the
honest question portion,
Crossnote has already addressed its implication, an implication that I too spotted immediately. Surprised crossnote spotted it.
Notecross usually gets things switched and jangled. Not.
I'll take your word that it is an
honest question, but there's no way you're going to convince me that it is an understandable question. It's conglomerate. Honestly, it is. (Well, I have second thoughts about taking your word that it is an honest question. I just read and am responding to parts of your response.)
Where did either an Apostle or Jesus (let's avoid the whole Jesus "fulfilled the Law" controversy)... where in the NT are we ever commanded to teach or enforce Christian morals by force?
What do you mean
by force?
Your next line seems to attempt to define
by force. But it lacks clarity. Here it is:
I mean distinctly Christian practices - universal ethics is not what I'm asking about. I don't mean excommunication, shunning or any of this. I mean, where are we commanded to force others by the tip of the sword (gov) to obey God? Where did Jesus ever use force (not rebuke, but enacting a tangible penalty) to make one comply with God's standards?
This is confusion:
"...where are we commanded to force others by the tip of the sword (gov) to obey God?
Are you asking, where are we commanded to put a sword to someone to obey God?
Are you asking, where are we commanded to put the sword to someone with government authority to force someone to obey God?
Or are you asking, where are we commanded to put the sword in the government's hand to force others to obey God?
Or are you asking, where are we ever commanded to vote for laws that align themselves with the values and virtues of the teaching of Jesus Christ?
Those are just some of the options I can find from the sword to (gov) portion.
The changeup from the concrete
sword to the parenthetical abstract
(gov) lacks specificity. Literal sword? If not, then what is the sword? The government?
Christians are never commanded to put a sword a gun or any weapon to an individual to get them to comply to the commands of God.
My question is: Why would you ask these questions? What led you to ask such?
Perhaps if you answer that, I might be able to decipher your
honest question, or honest questions.
Why would Someone who teaches against retaliation (turn the other cheek) approve of forcing people to behave a certain way?
Mom spanked me when I disobeyed. Or is that not what you have in mind? Well, spare the rod spoil the child. Proverbs mentions something about that. But is that not what you have in mind?
Again, don't know what you are asking.
Furthermore, instead of slapping your interpretation of
turn the other cheek onto me, you ought to ask what I believe it means.
Since we are drawing all these things from God's word, surely you can point to where this is commanded, of even encouraged?
With your sarcastic
surely you can point to where this is commanded, of even encouraged you have just contradicted yourself. Honest question! Your question is not honest.
Your question (questions) are misleading, suggestive, and present inferences not supported from any response of mine. What is implied by my responses is not as what you present in your inferences.
And
And I don't accept Romans 13, because the context does not lend to that notion.
More proof that your honest question is not honest. You put out there
I don't accept.
How can your question be honest if you already don't accept something you suppose might be part of the answer? I DON'T ACCEPT. That ain't supportive of an honest question.
Please write one question with clarity.
Please do not slap your interpretation of a verse onto me.
Please do not label a question as honest if the question is suggestive and misleading.
Please do not do what you condemn, as you write
I do not accept.
Please be honest and sincere in your search for truth.