Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[KennethC]

Again Kenneth I don't believe in works for salvation but I believe good works will result from salvation.

Again if that is what you believe then you are entitled to that opinion, however there is over 25 scriptures that show salvation is not an immediate physical possession of ours yet.

It is a mental possession of assurance that we have now that we will receive by our faith and the Holy Spirit abiding in us. Therefore those works are a product of a true saving faith, not salvation !!!

How good is good enough.

Where is the cut off point where I am in the middle where I am either good enough to earn salvation. or not good enough that I have lost salvation?

It has nothing to do with good enough as that would be the wrong way to look at it.

It has to deal with staying or not staying in the faith of the Lord, and staying means keeping with sound doctrine of His teachings and commands. Not staying is going back to a deliberate sinful lifestyle that you would not want to give up.

There is no limit on how good a person has to be, but there is a calling for each and every one of us believers that we are commanded to walk in. Some of those positions require more attention and time from the person than others, but they all require an active participation in the faith from giving the gospel and living by how the Lord showed us to act.

 

[KennethC]

Jesus was a Jew living and teaching under the old covenant. Forget that and you will shipwreck your faith.

Under the Law that's the way forgiveness worked. That's the way everything worked. Do to get. Do this and God will do that. But Christians are under a different program. Under grace it's do as God has already done for you. If God has forgiven you, and He has, then who are you to withhold forgiveness from others?

Ephesians 4:32 "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."

Again the Apostles confirmed, expounded, and taught all of what Jesus taught in the 4 gospel books to new covenant believers.

Lord Jesus teachings were not for old covenant people or Jews only, those who thank that way have gone shipwrecked in their faith.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I guess you miss the point where Peter, Paul, and John all three say that if you walk in the fruits of the Spirit they will keep you from stumbling.

If you stumble then you have to confess and return to the Lord, and just to make things clear you do not have to pinpoint every single sin by name. A general confession for forgiveness is enough, plus this comes to the heart to as God knows who was genuine in how they felt when they sinned and if they are sorry for what they did and who deliberately did it with no sorrow.

There are no "fruits" of the Spirit, there is only the "fruit" of the Spirit. And it's His fruit, not yours. He produces His fruit through us as we abide in Christ. We don't produce His fruit, we only bear it.

So, all we have to do is a general, "sorry for all the wrong stuff I did God, over and out" and then we are good to go, eh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It has nothing to do with good enough as that would be the wrong way to look at it.

I can not agree in good faith, If you claim we must obey a certain standard. Yuo must show how much obedience is required.

You do not go tell someone they must do all these things to be saved, then tell people who have done most of those things they can still lose salvation. Unless yuo let them know what the cut off is. Otherwise. no one woudl ever know they had eternal life. and could never know if they will make it to heaven, A person would always live in fear. and have no hope. because how could they ever know?

It has to deal with staying or not staying in the faith of the Lord, and staying means keeping with sound doctrine of His teachings and commands. Not staying is going back to a deliberate sinful lifestyle that you would not want to give up.

Again John said a child born of God can not sin, One who sins has never seen God nor known him. So not sure of your point.

The law states perfection is the requirment, since we will never be perfect. how could we ever stand before God and be worthy of salvation?

There is no limit on how good a person has to be,

Actually to be saved, there is, It is called perfection. as paul said, whoever does not confirm and obey every word written are under a curse.

This is the curse jesus paid on the cross

but there is a calling for each and every one of us believers that we are commanded to walk in. Some of those positions require more attention and time from the person than others, but they all require an active participation in the faith from giving the gospel and living by how the Lord showed us to act.

One who has no faith will never do them, Even if one has faith, they will not be perfect in doing them

so again, what is the cut off?? I am asking an honest question, I am not trying to be argumenatative

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are no "fruits" of the Spirit, there is only the "fruit" of the Spirit. And it's His fruit, not yours. He produces His fruit through us as we abide in Christ. We don't produce His fruit, we only bear it.

So, all we have to do is a general, "sorry for all the wrong stuff I did God, over and out" and then we are good to go, eh?

Amen, we can stop fruit from growing, but we can not produce fruit.

 

[KennethC]

There are no "fruits" of the Spirit, there is only the "fruit" of the Spirit. And it's His fruit, not yours. He produces His fruit through us as we abide in Christ. We don't produce His fruit, we only bear it.

So, all we have to do is a general, "sorry for all the wrong stuff I did God, over and out" and then we are good to go, eh?

Your heart has to be in it and your actions that follow have to show a true confession and repentance.
Matthew 3:8 speaks on this, and yes I know there is only one fruit but the reason I use it in plural is because there are many components to His fruit. (Galatians 5:22-26)

What also does the Lord's prayer of Matthew 6:9-13 say, does it simply say trespasses or does it say to name everything wrong you ever did? It just says forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, a general usage.

Still as for the fruit of the Spirit it will show out in our outer actions, speech, and treatment of others.
Which is why Paul, Peter, and John say and show if that fruit does not follow then that is proof the Holy Spirit does not abide in them. Thus they are not saved through Christ unto eternal life !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

You can not have it both ways if a saving faith is not alone, then neither is a faith that leads to salvation.

Because again salvation is the promise received at the end of our faith, not the beginning !!!

"For you have need of endurance so that when you have done the will of God you will receive what is promised."
(Hebrews 10:36)

"This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life."
(1 John 2:25)

ummmmm, no. Eternal life is not a commodity that God just hands out. It is a quality of life, and that quality of life is the very life of Christ. We HAVE eternal life because we have the One in whom is eternal life, Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

 

[KennethC]

I can not agree in good faith, If you claim we must obey a certain standard. Yuo must show how much obedience is required.

You do not go tell someone they must do all these things to be saved, then tell people who have done most of those things they can still lose salvation. Unless yuo let them know what the cut off is. Otherwise. no one woudl ever know they had eternal life. and could never know if they will make it to heaven, A person would always live in fear. and have no hope. because how could they ever know?



Again John said a child born of God can not sin, One who sins has never seen God nor known him. So not sure of your point.

The law states perfection is the requirment, since we will never be perfect. how could we ever stand before God and be worthy of salvation?



Actually to be saved, there is, It is called perfection. as paul said, whoever does not confirm and obey every word written are under a curse.

This is the curse jesus paid on the cross



One who has no faith will never do them, Even if one has faith, they will not be perfect in doing them

so again, what is the cut off?? I am asking an honest question, I am not trying to be argumenatative

I will let you study it for yourself but will give you a little push in the right direction.

The Lord said those who love and believe in Him are those who keep His commandments and do what He says.

Those that do not love Him He says are those that do not keep His commandments, and are those who are disobedient.

Here is the little push.....................Disobedience is call a sin of unbelief in the bible !!!

 

[KennethC]

ummmmm, no. Eternal life is not a commodity that God just hands out. It is a quality of life, and that quality of life is the very life of Christ. We HAVE eternal life because we have the One in whom is eternal life, Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:13
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Keep reading clearly what Apostle John is saying because he clearly shows that is a mental assurance that we have now, and is by the Holy Spirit abiding in us. It is not an actual physical possession we yet possess !!!

Like I said before I can show 25+ scriptures from both Paul and Peter that shows it is a gift given at the end of our faith.

Apostle Paul also says multiple times by faith we "seek for" and "hope for" eternal life !!!

You do not need to seek or hope to receive something you already have, but Paul says by faith we do showing the physical possession is not yet.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Your heart has to be in it and your actions that follow have to show a true confession and repentance.
Matthew 3:8 speaks on this, and yes I know there is only one fruit but the reason I use it in plural is because there are many components to His fruit. (Galatians 5:22-26)

What also does the Lord's prayer of Matthew 6:9-13 say, does it simply say trespasses or does it say to name everything wrong you ever did? It just says forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, a general usage.

Still as for the fruit of the Spirit it will show out in our outer actions, speech, and treatment of others.
Which is why Paul, Peter, and John say and show if that fruit does not follow then that is proof the Holy Spirit does not abide in them. Thus they are not saved through Christ unto eternal life !!!

So it's only the sincere general all inclusive confession that gets results. Okay. But if you haven't taken the time to list each and every sin, what action(s) do you know to do as a follow up?

Sure the Spirits fruit will show in all who are abiding in Christ.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Keep reading clearly what Apostle John is saying because he clearly shows that is a mental assurance that we have now, and is by the Holy Spirit abiding in us. It is not an actual physical possession we yet possess !!!

Like I said before I can show 25+ scriptures from both Paul and Peter that shows it is a gift given at the end of our faith.

Apostle Paul also says multiple times by faith we "seek for" and "hope for" eternal life !!!

You do not need to seek or hope to receive something you already have, but Paul says by faith we do showing the physical possession is not yet.

Again, you missed it entirely.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will let you study it for yourself but will give you a little push in the right direction.

The Lord said those who love and believe in Him are those who keep His commandments and do what He says.

I have never denied this, in fact I preach this.

Again, John says those who are born of God can not sin (meaning they do what he says) for they are born of God.

so I am not quite sure how this will help me.

Those that do not love Him He says are those that do not keep His commandments, and are those who are disobedient.

I believe this also. Again, John said one who sins has never seen God nor have they known him. That can not have been saved. So again, I am not sure how this will help me. me I not only believe this but teach it.

Here is the little push.....................Disobedience is call a sin of unbelief in the bible !!!

yet we are all disobedient. (no one is perfect) so again, How good is good enough?

if your going to make this claim, you have to give the cut off.

 

[KennethC]

So it's only the sincere general all inclusive confession that gets results. Okay. But if you haven't taken the time to list each and every sin, what action(s) do you know to do as a follow up?

Sure the Spirits fruit will show in all who are abiding in Christ.

Easy all you have to do is walk in the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!

Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, and obedience to the Lord.

Again, you missed it entirely.

I have not missed nothing as you just like a few others have been taught a miss usage that salvation is an immediate physical possession right here and now.

However the right here and now is a mental possession of assurance that we will receive eternal life, and John says the eternal life abiding in us right now is that of the Holy Spirit which is why we have that assurance.

The correct usage of pisteuo (belief) is this;

1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in

a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something:

 

[KennethC]

I have never denied this, in fact I preach this.

Again, John says those who are born of God can not sin (meaning they do what he says) for they are born of God.

so I am not quite sure how this will help me.





I believe this also. Again, John said one who sins has never seen God nor have they known him. That can not have been saved. So again, I am not sure how this will help me. me I not only believe this but teach it.


yet we are all disobedient. (no one is perfect) so again, How good is good enough?

if your going to make this claim, you have to give the cut off.

I have given you the cut off you just do not want to accept what was said, so please stop acting like I have not answered.

It is about rather you continue in the faith or not, and rather one is walking in the faith or not is shown by their actions.
By the fruits you will know them !!!

 

[KennethC]

Question for those who want to separate the walk from the faith to make it faith alone for salvation:

Is a homosexual who is engaged in a same sex relationship or marriage saved, if they believe in the Lord ???

 

[FreeNChrist]

Easy all you have to do is walk in the fruit of the Holy Spirit !!!

Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, and obedience to the Lord.





I have not missed nothing as you just like a few others have been taught a miss usage that salvation is an immediate physical possession right here and now.

However the right here and now is a mental possession of assurance that we will receive eternal life, and John says the eternal life abiding in us right now is that of the Holy Spirit which is why we have that assurance.

The correct usage of pisteuo (belief) is this;

1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in

a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something:

Walking in fruit will only stain your shoes, and it does not answer the question asked.

As to the rest, it's pure nonsense. All Christians have eternal life. Who is teaching you the stuff?

 

[KennethC]

Walking in fruit will only stain your shoes, and it does not answer the question asked.

As to the rest, it's pure nonsense. All Christians have eternal life. Who is teaching you the stuff?

It is not nonsense it comes straight from the Word of God, the Holy Spirit's guidance, and Strong's Greek Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have given you the cut off you just do not want to accept what was said, so please stop acting like I have not answered.

How can you say you have given the cut off when if you were honest with yourself you know you did not.

Saying a person who continues to live in sin is not a cut off. how much sin? If a person who is saved can not be perfect (as you yourself believes) there there must be a cut off. why are you afraid to answer?

It is about rather you continue in the faith or not, and rather one is walking in the faith or not is shown by their actions.
By the fruits you will know them !!!

yeah, so a babe in Christ has faith. Proven by some action. so what makes them a babe in Christ as apposed to a person who is not a babe in Christ (have lost salvation or never been saved?

we are back to square one. How many works makes one have true faith, vs how many sins or lack of works makes ones faith a false faith (there would be your cut off) (note James actually gives you the answer. if you are open to it)

 

[FreeNChrist]

Question for those who want to separate the walk from the faith to make it faith alone for salvation:

The Christian "walk" is a walk of faith in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[KennethC]

Walking in fruit will only stain your shoes, and it does not answer the question asked.

As to the rest, it's pure nonsense. All Christians have eternal life. Who is teaching you the stuff?

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.




Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:




1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.




1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.




1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.




2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.




1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.