God did away with some of His own sayings

[bikerchaz]

Forget what 'people say', Jesus said "I have not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law". Keep focused on what Jesus says to you by His Spirit, and by His word. If what others say makes you feel bad, then pray for them and bless them, as for you, stay with Jesus, you can't go wrong if you focus on Him and not others.
God bless

 

[BenFTW]

You have blessed me!

Bottom line. There is nothing that God has spoken that we have the freedom to reject. That's the entire purpose of this thread. What dismays me is that there are professing Christians that have not the capability to see the spiritual truth in ALL of God's spoken word. Their only alternative is to reject what cannot be comprehended. I love them all and yearn for them who cannot. We should have the heart and mind to pursue the truth. That's loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. The law is spiritual and that's the way we are to worship God. Anything less is false in my opinion.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

I'm glad that you have come to a mutual understanding that we all agree that there are truths that are of benefit to live by from the OT. This, however, isn't where it ends. My questions asks are we required to do these beneficial things and if we don't, what are the consequences (especially on an eternal perspective)?

 

[just-me]

Paul isn't saying that he worships by following the law and the prophets . . . Paul says that he worships the same God as his fathers - "BELIEVING" all things which are written in the law and in the prophets . . . I believe I can say with certainty that we all BELIEVE the things which are written in the law and in the prophets.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

So no . . . Paul is not double minded.

Then the law is NOT the adversary of God's grace. Right?
If we purposefully reject it, then we are the adversary to God's grace, not His spoken word.

 

[BarlyGurl]

In one sentence you are saying that you better check your Spirit but just before that you are saying that you can't trust your Spirit. Do you see any inconsistency there? I do not believe that being born again your new Spirit would have led you into sin.

try to read more s-l-o-w-l-y. There is no inconsistency in my statement... it is your comprehension...just saying.

The SCRIPTURES tell us to check ourselves... DO YOU SKIP OVER THOSE VERSES?????

Because you are asking... And think MY POST is inconsistent... I wonder about HOW YOU figure what is right or wrong.... do you just go by WHATEVER POPS INTO YOUR HEAD at any given moment??? I Am pretty sure that is NOT how you operate Shotgun... so YOU are going to have to explain how you think I am being inconsistent when the scripture tells us to examine ourselves.... WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO EXAMINE OURSELVES AGAINST???

 

[BenFTW]

Atwhatcost, I owe you a public apology. I shouldn't have gone off on you that strongly, emphasis on that strongly. haha But, lets move on as just-me is now answering questions and progress is being made towards understanding. The past is the past, lets move on towards understanding.

 

[just-me]

I'm glad that you have come to a mutual understanding that we all agree that there are truths that are of benefit to live by from the OT. This, however, isn't where it ends. My questions asks are we required to do these beneficial things and if we don't, what are the consequences (especially on an eternal perspective)?

Yes, there are consequences, both good and bad, in relation to how we act. I thought that I had quoted scripture to confirm that.

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10


Let's go way back to the foundations that eventually evolved into the RCC. Keep in mind that this "church" demanded that Jews must reject their heritage in order to be accepted into the Gentile church rather than Gentles being grafted in to the true "olive tree."

Yes, there are external consequences for disobedience against God. He has always had the proper way to govern, given first to Israel. Now look at what we are facing today. Is it bad, or good in your opinion? And if bad (which I believe) what has been rejected to make it that way? I'm not talking salvation in Christ, I'm talking the Lord's prayer.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10

The earth is external. It's in our face naturally.

 

[atwhatcost]

You seem to skim over the fact that he isn't replying to questions directed at him. You then go on a stupid rant, every single time. You are defending him for no reason and wrongly so. He is not answering questions, that are not presumptuous but are trying to get to the heart of the discussion. You, however, keep coming to his defense halting any progress that can be made. Stop speaking for him. Let him answer the questions, and whether its Christianese or not, he ought to learn "Christianese" if he wishes to partake in any edifying discussion rather than spew out the nonsense we have been reading this whole thread.

If that came off aggressive its because it was meant to, you have such a passive aggressiveness about you that its the only tone that seems to get you to think (if at all). Stop defending just-me when he isn't being attacked but rather people are trying to reveal what is, obviously, hidden to some at the sake of you persecuting them and vilifying them.

I completely understand what you are saying. It, however, doesn't apply in this instance as just-me is apparently incapable of discussion because the questions raised would bring to light his position of which it seems he would rather others be ignorant of. If that isn't the case, answer the questions just-me. Stop letting atwhatcost defend you at the cost of her dignity and respect (at least what I had towards her).

Gosh, some people are annoying...

View attachment 135592

This wasn't Just-Me you were asking.

What did you miss?




Nothing. It was how you interpreted what you read and reached a false conclusion. Let me use his own words to paint it clearly for you.

#1. "I was just wondering how people can demean God's character be saying God did away with this or that of certain things He said previously in Biblical history."

What, atwhatcost, do you suppose that means? To me, what I see is someone who does not comprehend what it means to rightly divide the word of God. To rightly divide certain truths that are only applicable to a certain people or spoken group. It is a lack of acknowledgement that the cross changed things, Jesus changed things. It is a willful ignorance of being under a new covenant that cannot and does not mix with the old way of self-righteousness. Yet, he wishes to make a point that it is demeaning God's character to imply God did away with things He spoke, yet fails to realize whom the Lord was speaking to (under a covenant of old).

#2. "I read in posts quite often when referring to God's spoken word that He did away with it.
“God did away with that.”
“God did away with that.”
“That's been made void.”
“That part of His word has been abolished.”

Again, rightly dividing the Word. When people say these things, they are right. There are things that are of the old that don't apply in the new. There are parts of His word that have been fulfilled/abolished and therefore we no longer are under (such as the Law). For example, eating pork. We can eat pork, though it may not be the most edifying for our health. Its against the Law. Yes the underlying truth is that it isn't a healthy food choice, but we are no longer subject to this Law. No one is arguing against the Law having beneficial information with in it. We are arguing the must obey/requirement of walking out the Law (all of it).

#3. Will we ever get past the carnal mindset by consistently labeling things as carnal when we should actually be searching diligently for the spiritual truth in all God has ever spoken?

This is his point. We agree with this point, at least I do. We ought to look at the spiritual truths of God's word in its entirety. We shouldn't ignore the OT and say its obsolete, acting as if there isn't anything to be gained in reading it. He is one hundred percent right on this. If this is his one and only point there would be no disagreement. However, the implication of taking issue with people saying certain parts of God's word is abolished or void makes it seem as if we must follow what is being said. This is wrong, we aren't under Law, we are under the new covenant of grace.

So as you see, read in between the lines and follow the logical conclusion one would reach in thinking that nothing is abolished/fulfilled. We would not get to enjoy Red Lobster. lol

Or this.

It is hard to have a conversation/discussion with someone if they are unwilling to answer questions. Thanks for your open and kind response. I was not jumping to conclusions, I read clearly what was being said and saw between the lines. Assumptions weren't being made about the person, but rather where his line of logic leads. Maybe he doesn't truly subscribe to a legalistic doctrine, and if that is the case, he ought to work on the way he portrays himself as he could lead people astray and put a burden on them Jesus wants to set people free from.

You want to see how this person won't have conversation? Look no further...



Questions were given and answers were not. He ignored them. They aren't even leading, they are plain faced. All together the questions can be summed up as, "Are you a legalist?" However, that requires some specific information that just-me, apparently, isn't willing to share for who knows what reason.

Thanks for your response to not go with the crowd because the crowd could be wrong. Such a non-conformist you are, haha.
Though, as far as I am able to tell with what just-me is willing to share, the crowd doesn't seem to be wrong. Maybe just-me is willing to prove the crowd wrong and answer the questions I posited to him? Who knows.

I'm answering you, because you asked me. How is that passive-aggressive?

And, if you don't want me to answer for him, then don't ask me what I hear him saying.

I already told you, he is answering when he doesn't feel attacked. Just because we don't get what he's saying the first, second, third, or fifth time, and just because he's not giving the answer we were expecting to here, doesn't mean he's not answer.

Look at this thread. See how many people are talking -- not just to him but to each other too, (like you and I have been doing.) Can you seriously say you would be able to answer every question asked? Can you seriously say you'd want to?

For the record. I'm not passive-aggressive. I'm aggressive! That isn't a willingness to ignore, although I will do that too. It's a willingness to hear. One of the things I'm hearing from you now is your frustrated. I'm not going to turn you off for being frustrated. I truly understand Just-Me brings many people to frustration level. And then we're supposed to calm down and come back in love.

Supposed to. Doesn't mean we do. I trust you to do it quicker than I do. (I trust you because I see that you do that better than I do. Not saying you should be better than I am.) And that IS aggressive, not passive-aggressive. We have aggressive in common. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

Next question, is our salvation at risk if we do not keep the statutes of the Law? Is that a fair question? Oh darn, thats two questions.

PS: So your answer is basically that there are natural consequences to sin. Good answer.

Dang! You got his answer the first time? I so would have had to ask more often. (Not interfering. Just admiring.)

 

[shotgunner]

try to read more s-l-o-w-l-y. There is no inconsistency in my statement... it is your comprehension...just saying.

The SCRIPTURES tell us to check ourselves... DO YOU SKIP OVER THOSE VERSES?????

Because you are asking... And think MY POST is inconsistent... I wonder about HOW YOU figure what is right or wrong.... do you just go by WHATEVER POPS INTO YOUR HEAD at any given moment??? I Am pretty sure that is NOT how you operate Shotgun... so YOU are going to have to explain how you think I am being inconsistent when the scripture tells us to examine ourselves.... WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO EXAMINE OURSELVES AGAINST???

Dear lady. I'm not being nearly as harsh as you think . I suppose you think that because of my failure to completely communicate my thought. All I'm really saying is that you can trust your born again spirit a lot more than you think.

I mean really, is there any truly born again person that would honestly say that it's fine to lie, fornicate, bear false witness, worship other Gods, kill, steal, or break any of what we know as the commandments just because they have never read that commandment? Even if they have sin in their lives, I believe that as they read and study the word and get to know God, the Holy Spirit will deal with them to correct it. At least that's how it has been in my life.

I'm not telling anyone to forget the Bible and just do whatever feels right to them. What I would like to convey though is that we need to develop a closer relationship with the Holy Spirit and learn to hear from him. I would much rather we learn to follow the Holy Spirit than have every Christian know all 613 of the laws. If we could only learn this profound truth, the Holy Spirit would lead us much better in every area of life.

 

[just-me]

Dang! You got his answer the first time? I so would have had to ask more often. (Not interfering. Just admiring.)

He apologized. We came to an agreement. Post 385

Atwhatcost, I owe you a public apology. I shouldn't have gone off on you that strongly, emphasis on that strongly. haha But, lets move on as just-me is now answering questions and progress is being made towards understanding. The past is the past, lets move on towards understanding.

 

[atwhatcost]

Atwhatcost, I owe you a public apology. I shouldn't have gone off on you that strongly, emphasis on that strongly. haha But, lets move on as just-me is now answering questions and progress is being made towards understanding. The past is the past, lets move on towards understanding.

Sorry. Read your PM before coming here. Responded to your remarks before seeing you are doing what I asked you to do.

I'm trying to keep mum while you and Just-Me talk. I'm not good at that, but I'm trying. I think if the rest of us would sit back and watch, eventually many will see what Just-Me has been saying.

I'm even open to I could be wrong. But I so love your questions. Granted still frustrated with myself that I don't understand as quickly as you seem to, but I'm watching.

And outside of thinking my elongated responses are stupid rants, can't say I was offended. Confused, but not offended. As far as "stupid rants" go, I absolutely know I'm long-winded, so I get it sounds convoluted at times. I get frustrated -- both as me, and because as me, I get how others feel that too.

Thank you for making this open too. I wasn't offended to begin with, so my PM response reflects that. Only slightly offended by "stupid rants," but forgiven even before I got to this post. Thanks for this. I wish this happened more often. It's good to clear the air between the bros, so thank you.

Now I can't wait to see Just-Mes answer to your question you keep repeating. Let me know when you get the answer you want, not because I need to know you got it. Because I still don't, so if you're satisfied, but I'm not, I'll keep trying until I am.

 

[atwhatcost]

He apologized. We came to an agreement. Post 385

That wasn't what I meant. I'm truly impressed he understood what you meant at first try. I didn't. lol

 

[just-me]

Sorry. Read your PM before coming here. Responded to your remarks before seeing you are doing what I asked you to do.

I'm trying to keep mum while you and Just-Me talk. I'm not good at that, but I'm trying. I think if the rest of us would sit back and watch, eventually many will see what Just-Me has been saying.

I'm even open to I could be wrong. But I so love your questions. Granted still frustrated with myself that I don't understand as quickly as you seem to, but I'm watching.

And outside of thinking my elongated responses are stupid rants, can't say I was offended. Confused, but not offended. As far as "stupid rants" go, I absolutely know I'm long-winded, so I get it sounds convoluted at times. I get frustrated -- both as me, and because as me, I get how others feel that too.

Thank you for making this open too. I wasn't offended to begin with, so my PM response reflects that. Only slightly offended by "stupid rants," but forgiven even before I got to this post. Thanks for this. I wish this happened more often. It's good to clear the air between the bros, so thank you.

Now I can't wait to see Just-Mes answer to your question you keep repeating. Let me know when you get the answer you want, not because I need to know you got it. Because I still don't, so if you're satisfied, but I'm not, I'll keep trying until I am.

I'll post them for you enlightenment. One at a time.

 

[atwhatcost]

I'll post them for you enlightenment. One at a time.

Nah, don't worry about me. Ben is asking all the right questions. Keep answering him and I'll get my answers eventually. (Too many people already pulling asides on this. I don't want to add to your hard work trying to keep up with all the asides.)

 

[just-me]

Nah, don't worry about me. Ben is asking all the right questions. Keep answering him and I'll get my answers eventually. (Too many people already pulling asides on this. I don't want to add to your hard work trying to keep up with all the asides.)

Not a prob. I have more to share when the time comes, as I'm hinting at here, concerning doctrines that take apart the word of God like it was a bag a trial mix. Just waiting to see if anyone is really interested. LOL

I'm glad that you have come to a mutual understanding that we all agree that there are truths that are of benefit to live by from the OT. This, however, isn't where it ends. My questions asks are we required to do these beneficial things and if we don't, what are the consequences (especially on an eternal perspective)?

Yes, there are consequences, both good and bad, in relation to how we act. I thought that I had quoted scripture to confirm that.

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10


Let's go way back to the foundations that eventually evolved into the RCC. Keep in mind that this "church" demanded that Jews must reject their heritage in order to be accepted into the Gentile church rather than Gentles being grafted in to the true "olive tree."

Yes, there are external consequences for disobedience against God. He has always had the proper way to govern, given first to Israel. Now look at what we are facing today. Is it bad, or good in your opinion? And if bad (which I believe) what has been rejected to make it that way? I'm not talking salvation in Christ, I'm talking the Lord's prayer.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10

The earth is external. It's in our face naturally.

 

[BenFTW]

Yes, there are consequences, both good and bad, in relation to how we act. I thought that I had quoted scripture to confirm that.

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10


Let's go way back to the foundations that eventually evolved into the RCC. Keep in mind that this "church" demanded that Jews must reject their heritage in order to be accepted into the Gentile church rather than Gentles being grafted in to the true "olive tree."

Yes, there are external consequences for disobedience against God. He has always had the proper way to govern, given first to Israel. Now look at what we are facing today. Is it bad, or good in your opinion? And if bad (which I believe) what has been rejected to make it that way? I'm not talking salvation in Christ, I'm talking the Lord's prayer.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10

The earth is external. It's in our face naturally.

New question. So, to cut to the chase a bit, are one of those consequences of not doing the commandments of the OT Law loss of salvation? Does me eating pork, for example, risk the security I have, or the assurance of salvation I have in Jesus Christ?

We both agree that there are benefits to be had in living by certain principles laid out in the Law, what I am trying to decipher is whether we agree or not on the necessity to do these principles.

 

[Billyd]

Thank you Lynn, Ben, and Just-me. Even through the noise, you maintained a civil and very informative discussion. It has been a rare occurrence lately.

Again thanks

 

[just-me]

New question. So, to cut to the chase a bit, are one of those consequences of not doing the commandments of the OT Law loss of salvation? Does me eating pork, for example, risk the security I have, or the assurance of salvation I have in Jesus Christ?

We both agree that there are benefits to be had in living by certain principles laid out in the Law, what I am trying to decipher is whether we agree or not on the necessity to do these principles.

1. No to your first question, because willful disobedience confirms salvation wasn't there in the first place. In addition, if a person is truly saved they will do all they can to obey the commandments (spiritually) and endeavor to find out where they are falling short because of the love of God in their heart. So in both cases, the answer is no.

2. Same answer as 1. Spiritual people, grounded in faith will not look at the physical before the spiritual. Just the opposite, but not to neglect the physical even so. Anything else is hypocritical as Jesus' following words to the Pharisees confirm.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23

3. Answer to a question you didn't ask. We wouldn't be concerned (deep in our own heart) about the physical ramifications if we were secure in Spirit. With that said, a spiritual man or woman knows they fall short all the time, like the more I find out about God's word, the more I realize how little I really know. That isn't a hindrance, but certainly not an excuse to not study the word of God to find out the truth with all diligence. The Spirit and the Word of God ALWAYS work together without fail. They CANNOT be separated.

If we look at these things with a necessity on our part to work it out, then we are relying more on ourselves than God. Faith without works is just as dead as works without faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

>>>>Actually I was a horrific Gentile. How does what I said even lead you to think I was a good jew. that makes no sense.<<<<

How about you just camp right here and think about your OWN question for a little while??? Might have to re-read the comments a few times until you recognize it MAKES SENSE!

sadly, I doubt it will ever make sense to you.

1. You claimed I have insinuated we do not need to obey God, and acted like a kid when I called you out on it (by the way, do you have any proof I ever claimed that?
2. I basically stated what Paul said to a gentile church in the galatian area, and you asked if I was jewish. and then said I need to re-read what I posted then I will see why.

so how do you expect me to take you serious when you do things like this?

 

[just-me]

Thank you Lynn, Ben, and Just-me. Even through the noise, you maintained a civil and very informative discussion. It has been a rare occurrence lately.

Again thanks

Humility is the best policy. We should never let our pet doctrines override the truth. We should all be searching for more truth every day in prayer and supplication unto God through Christ Jesus our Lord. Philippians 4:6