WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?

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GaryA said:
I see that you have changed your mind a bit on who the two witnesses are...



So --- are you saying:

The East Church and the West Church are going to kill their enemies with fire...?

The East Church and the West Church are going to "smite the earth with all plagues"...?

The beast is going to kill the East Church and the West Church...? :confused:

The whole world will see the dead bodies of the East Church and the West Church lie in the street, and not allow them to be buried...?



"Just sayin'..."

:)
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God bless you Gary
 
Gary,

Further to my point. It really helps when one is able to identify the Beast of the Sea of Rev 13. This beast could be either ISIS or IRAN give its location. The Harlot is ISLAM as I pretty conclusively proved in other posts. With that knowledge, we are able to see who is celebrating the spiritual defeat of the church here.

Revelation 11:9

Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.

These "peoples, tribes, tongues and nations" are Islamic. It is they who celebrate the spiritual defeat of the church in the above passage. Now compare to the below passage:

Revelation 17:15

Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

Thus the "waters" are Islamic peoples where the Great False religion ISLAM sits. Where "Islam sits" is where the Greek Orthodox Church used to thrive and flourish. The Christian faith or more broadly speaking, the monotheistic belief in God, is almost completely gone from the "sea."
 
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popeye said:
Howdy PW. Hope all is well with you.

God bless.
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Hi Popeye, same to you!! I am leaving for Europe on Thursday and will be visiting Israel for 5 days. Haven't been there since 1981. Please pray for my wife and I as it is not a great time to be going to that part of the world.
 
PlainWord said:
Hi Popeye, same to you!! I am leaving for Europe on Thursday and will be visiting Israel for 5 days. Haven't been there since 1981. Please pray for my wife and I as it is not a great time to be going to that part of the world.
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I am Jealous.

May God bless you,protect you,and minister to you and your family!!!
May awesome revelation come to you from heaven as you walk where the patriarchs and Jesus walked.
And Lord,give him favor with the Jews,the messianic Jews,and let him even make some awesome arab connections.


PS, And may he give pretrib a look LOL!
 
Please pray for my wife and I as it is not a great time to be going to that part of the world.
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IT IS A PERFECT TIME. The hand of God is upon you friend!!!!!
 
SHEEPxDOG said:
Yes there will be a rapture! but a secret rapture to save us from tribulation? NO! To save us from God's wrath? YES!
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That is true.

Jesus was on the Mount of Olives,and told the saints the way He ascends up,is the same way He will descend down,which Zechariah chapter 14 says,that God will gather all the world together against Jerusalem,which is the battle of Armageddon,which is part of the wrath of God,and then God will come back with His saints,and step down on the Mount of Olives,and fight the world with the brightness of His coming,then describes the millennial reign of Christ.

Plus New Testament scriptures,so it appears as if there will be a resurrection of the saints,and when people say rapture,people say,where does it say rapture,but you know they mean resurrection.
 
PlainWord said:
Hi Popeye, same to you!! I am leaving for Europe on Thursday and will be visiting Israel for 5 days. Haven't been there since 1981. Please pray for my wife and I as it is not a great time to be going to that part of the world.
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And hope you can visit Mount Carmel on my behalf.

Micah 7:14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

Isaiah 35:2 It will blossom profusely And rejoice with rejoicing and shout of joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, The majesty of Carmel and Sharon. They will see the glory of the LORD, The majesty of our God.
 
popeye said:
I am Jealous.

May God bless you,protect you,and minister to you and your family!!!
May awesome revelation come to you from heaven as you walk where the patriarchs and Jesus walked.
And Lord,give him favor with the Jews,the messianic Jews,and let him even make some awesome arab connections.


PS, And may he give pretrib a look LOL!
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Thanks. Pre-trib is not going to happen;);)
 
thebesttrees said:
And hope you can visit Mount Carmel on my behalf.

Micah 7:14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.

Isaiah 35:2 It will blossom profusely And rejoice with rejoicing and shout of joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, The majesty of Carmel and Sharon. They will see the glory of the LORD, The majesty of our God.
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Not sure we will have time. Would love to go to Mt. Carmel but my wife has never been to Israel and I was there once at age 18. So much to see, so little time.
 
PlainWord said:
Hi Popeye, same to you!! I am leaving for Europe on Thursday and will be visiting Israel for 5 days. Haven't been there since 1981. Please pray for my wife and I as it is not a great time to be going to that part of the world.
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I will certainly say a prayer for you and your wife. Be sure to tell us all about it when you get back...

:)
 
PlainWord said:
Gary,



The whole passage describes spiritual warfare. Please try not to literalize the passage. The passage describes Satan's spiritual defeat of Christian values prior to the Return of Christ. The dead bodies are not literal. The street is not literal. The lack of burial is not literal. The fire is not literal. The smiting of the earth is not literal. All of it is spiritual and all of these symbols are defined in the OT.

John wrote Revelation using OT symbols from the OT prophets. Until recently, the church was able to "convict" sinners of their sin.

Compare:

Jeremiah 5:14

Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.

With:

Revelation 11:5

And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.

See how "FIRE" and "MOUTH" are used in each passage.

God's WORDS are like "Fire in the mouth of the church."
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PlainWord said:
Gary,

Further to my point. It really helps when one is able to identify the Beast of the Sea of Rev 13. This beast could be either ISIS or IRAN give its location. The Harlot is ISLAM as I pretty conclusively proved in other posts. With that knowledge, we are able to see who is celebrating the spiritual defeat of the church here.

Revelation 11:9

Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.

These "peoples, tribes, tongues and nations" are Islamic. It is they who celebrate the spiritual defeat of the church in the above passage. Now compare to the below passage:

Revelation 17:15

Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

Thus the "waters" are Islamic peoples where the Great False religion ISLAM sits. Where "Islam sits" is where the Greek Orthodox Church used to thrive and flourish. The Christian faith or more broadly speaking, the monotheistic belief in God, is almost completely gone from the "sea."
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The whole passage describes a physical-realm event on the Earth. Please try not to spiritualize the passage. ;)

:)
 
GaryA said:
The whole passage describes a physical-realm event on the Earth. Please try not to spiritualize the passage. ;)

:)
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Lol. not spiritualizing. The words are symbolic. I'm merely interpreting them. These peoples, nations etc are Muslim. They follow ISLAM, the great Harlot i.e., great false religion which John discusses at length.
 
Anybody know what this means?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

How about this? The "Stars from heaven" are angels. In this case, they are demons.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Before Christ returns, demons will be among us in great number. It will be as it was in the days of Noah, before the flood.
 
PlainWord said:
Anybody know what this means?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

How about this? The "Stars from heaven" are angels. In this case, they are demons.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Before Christ returns, demons will be among us in great number. It will be as it was in the days of Noah, before the flood.
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Good.
An example of a pretrib RAPTURE scenario./ Postrib return with saints (Uh,lets see.....Noah RETURNED post flood)

Both lot's and noah's examples were used by Jesus.
Neither had a post judgement catching away.
Both left either before or during judgement.

You have never had a postrib rapture case. (uncanny how you can not or will not acknowledge you have NO CASE FOR a deliverance post anything)
Nor have you ever noticed the magnificent holes I continue to blow in your boggus theory.

Btw,Don't worry about your safety in the Holy Land. We won't let you off that easy....LOL
 
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popeye said:
(Uh,lets see.....Noah RETURNED post flood)
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Noah did not 'return' -- he never 'left' -- he 'was present' for the entire duration...

And - Noah was as close to the flood as you could get, without being in the water.

:)
 
PlainWord said:
Anybody know what this means?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

How about this? The "Stars from heaven" are angels. In this case, they are demons.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Before Christ returns, demons will be among us in great number. It will be as it was in the days of Noah, before the flood.
Click to expand...

Anybody know what this means?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Click to expand...

This same thing happened in Acts 2 and that was two thousand years ago! You do not have to interpret and resort to guesswork anymore!
 
Morning PlainWord,

How about this? The "Stars from heaven" are angels. In this case, they are demons.
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Though you are correct in that "Stars" are also used in Revelation to symbolically represent fallen angels, here in this Scripture it is obvious that literal stars are in view and that because within the context the literal sun and the moon are mentioned. In Scripture, you will not usually see the literal mixed with symbolism. In this case since the literal sun and moon are in view here, it is not likely that the stars are going to represent angels, but actual stars in keeping with the context.

Matt.24:29 which you quoted above is synonymous with the sixth seal of Rev.6:12-14 and not Rev.12:9, which is when the war in heaven takes place at the middle of Daniel's seven. The Scripture's that are using star/stars as symbolic for angels is Rev.9:1 and Rev.12:3-4. And you are correct in that, demon's will be among us in great number, for at the fifth trumpet that star/angel will unlock the Abyss and out of it will come demonic beings resembling locusts looking like horses prepared for battle and will have tails and stings like scorpions and will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months. When the war in heaven takes place, then the dragon/Satan and his stars/angels will be thrown to the earth and will no longer have access to heaven, but will be able to concentrate their full malice upon the inhabitants of the earth.
 
I think examining the context of the usage of the term "cloud" and "clouds", both in respect to the physical and God's presence sheds light on how this subject. Especially that the heavens will pass away even as the earth does, where then, exactly, is the "barn", for the wheat, as compared to the furnace for the tares, respectively? Also the wine press in regard to the harvest of the vine, another analogy or metaphor (is that the same thing?), seems to me that the wine, although pressed is a good product of this process? What say you?
 
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