U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates

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Mitspa

Guest
Well, that's my point. This site hasn't been seized; you can still walk to church unharmed in broad daylight; Christian publications and ministries aren't being shut down one after another.

It just doesn't look favorable on Christians to whine about something like this, claiming it assaults their rights, when in fact none of these free speeches and liberties have been violated. It increases contempt which might not bode well for them when enough people get sick of it.

She broke an oath that she swore (maybe even "by God" when she swore it) and she is suffering for breaking that oath. Funny for some people to scream about illegals and how this is anti-American, yet it is anti-American to hold someone to the loyalty they swore to the country.

Seriously, this culture is eye-ball deep in double-standards, about EVERYTHING you can imagine. From Christians to atheists, there are tons of double-standards in what they expect. If God judged this nation for anything, imo it would be hypocrisy and arrogance.

Frankly, it makes us look like a bunch of cry babies. When the fact is you are in a secular nation, that has always been a secular (yet religiously dominated as Protestant), and if you want to argue against homonsexaulity, you really should being doing this in the academic realm if you want to make a point about it law-making wise.

Like, show without using any religious texts or appeals to God, why it is bad for society. If you can demonstrate it THAT way, with statistics and reason, you'll be taken more seriously, I assure you.
Do you believe the bible? Do you believe that God destroyed Sodom....do you believe Romans Chapter 1 ?

Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Oh and besides... if God's word on that is 100 percent correct about the ills this will cause, you should be able to show it with the research method, right?

You can show with research that divorce isn't favorable for couples, the economy, or society, for example. Even that cohabitation before marriage increases likelihood for divorce.
Oh I see you don't believe the bible.....so what, we allow our nation to be destroyed so you can do research? lol
 
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Sirk

Guest
So "QUIPS" are useful? depending on the statistic... astonishingly... I have discovered many that witness the TRUTH of God.
You should illustrate one for us.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
You should illustrate one for us.
Without derailing the thread... I think a pretty good example is the family statistics Jamie alluded to. Statics show that the rise of divorce has INCREASED an assortment of social deterioration affected consequences... and that surely supports scripture.
Divorce is NOT just about a broken marriage.... it leads to broken societies.
 

jamie26301

Senior Member
May 14, 2011
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You should illustrate one for us.
St. Paul does, in a manner for speaking. :)

Romans 11 - ESV
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Without derailing the thread... I think a pretty good example is the family statistics Jamie alluded to. Statics show that the rise of divorce has INCREASED an assortment of social deterioration affected consequences... and that surely supports scripture.
Divorce is NOT just about a broken marriage.... it leads to broken societies.
So this is a reason to promote more wickedness in our society??? :confused:

We should not possibly try to restore a sense or morality or resist evil ...because ? I don't get this logic at all?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
St. Paul does, in a manner for speaking. :)

Romans 11 - ESV
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Now how does the justification of faith and not the works of the law...suggest we should allow and promote deviant behavior?
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
So this is a reason to promote more wickedness in our society??? :confused:

We should not possibly try to restore a sense or morality or resist evil ...because ? I don't get this logic at all?
Who is promoting wickedness??? it appears the needle is stuck in a groove regarding your reasoning capabilities... NOWHERE has my comment you are commenting to suggested, alluded or IMPLIED promoting wickedness... Sheesh! You don't get "the Logic" because you have construed some link of logic in your head... the "logic" you are contributing to my comments is your IMAGINATION:rolleyes:
 
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jamie26301

Senior Member
May 14, 2011
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Who is promoting wickedness??? it appears the needle is stuck in a groove regarding your reasoning capabilities... NOWHERE has my comment you are commenting to suggested, alluded or IMPLIED promoting wickedness... Sheesh! You don't get "the Logic" because you have construed some link of logic in your head... the "logic" you are contributing to my comments is your IMAGINATION:rolleyes:
Goodness... Gathering research is promoting wickedness... no wonder some people refer to us as unthinking and simplistic.

"Just make this a law just because! No reasoning necessary - that would make me a faithless doubter and heretic." This is what I personally hear between the lines of so many arguments like these.
 
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Sirk

Guest
Without derailing the thread... I think a pretty good example is the family statistics Jamie alluded to. Statics show that the rise of divorce has INCREASED an assortment of social deterioration affected consequences... and that surely supports scripture.
Divorce is NOT just about a broken marriage.... it leads to broken societies.
What are the statistics as to why divorce has increased? What are the statistics as to the various states of mind as to why people can't stay married? What are the statistics as to what brings people to the various aforementioned state of mind that people can't stay married? As you can see, statistics create a veritable black hole of more statistics.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Goodness... Gathering research is promoting wickedness... no wonder some people refer to us as unthinking and simplistic.

"Just make this a law just because! No reasoning necessary - that would make me a faithless doubter and heretic." This is what I personally hear between the lines of so many arguments like these.
Let me see Lord....do you have any research why we should obey you? Is evil really evil because God says so? Yes it is...don't need no research to know God is right.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Who is promoting wickedness??? it appears the needle is stuck in a groove regarding your reasoning capabilities... NOWHERE has my comment you are commenting to suggested, alluded or IMPLIED promoting wickedness... Sheesh! You don't get "the Logic" because you have construed some link of logic in your head... the "logic" you are contributing to my comments is your IMAGINATION:rolleyes:
No ...Im just pointing out at the end of all your logic...this sins ok and no one should stand against it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Without derailing the thread... I think a pretty good example is the family statistics Jamie alluded to. Statics show that the rise of divorce has INCREASED an assortment of social deterioration affected consequences... and that surely supports scripture.
Divorce is NOT just about a broken marriage.... it leads to broken societies.
hun, derailing this thread is the least of my worries :p

IMG_0034.JPG
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
No ...Im just pointing out at the end of all your logic...this sins ok and no one should stand against it.
No... You are pointing out the END OF YOUR OWN NONSENSICAL LOGIC, I made a single comment about quips and statistics...try learning how to read properly... now AFAIAC you are being gross and offensive... and it is SUNDAY!:eek:
 
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What are the statistics as to why divorce has increased? What are the statistics as to the various states of mind as to why people can't stay married? What are the statistics as to what brings people to the various aforementioned state of mind that people can't stay married? As you can see, statistics create a veritable black hole of more statistics.
It wasn't until the 1920's when women got the right to vote. It wasn't until 1972 that women could no longer be discriminated against by employers. In the interim, there were a number of changes that allowed women freedoms that had hitherto only been given to men.

The reason there are more divorces now than there were in 1920 is because there are more people, and those peoples' attitudes to serious flaws in marriages are much less "grin-and-bear-it" than they were in the 1920's. There's no longer any pressurizing social duty to stay with an abusive partner; no longer any obligation to stay with an unfaithful partner; no longer any discernible social, legal or financial advantage to getting married.

Which, in my honest opinion, isn't necessarily a bad thing. My grandmother told me that my grandfather used to slap her if she "got out of line". "Back in those days, a woman just did what she was told". People don't stand for mild emotional abuse nowadays, much less serious physical abuse, and that can't be bad.

I think that men opt out of marriages because legally, marriage stands to at best financially burden a man, and to at worst financially destroy him; and women opt out of marriages because marriage has always been an institution which fundamentally limited women's social rights.

The way modern young men and women look at it, marriage is only worth it if it firstly brings some financial or social benefit to both partners, and secondly if it's fair and equal. In a lot of cases, it's neither of those things.

Young people by and large don't want a traditionalist marriage, and rather than get married and divorce, lots of people are just not getting married to begin with. A lot of people, myself included, think "if we have to legally bind ourselves in order to stay together, perhaps we aren't right for each other to begin with".
 
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Mitspa

Guest
No... You are pointing out the END OF YOUR OWN NONSENSICAL LOGIC, I made a single comment about quips and statistics...try learning how to read properly... now AFAIAC you are being gross and offensive... and it is SUNDAY!:eek:
its clear your using any excuse that comes to your mind to suggest that this woman or other believers should not stand and work against this perversion of our society. That's what your doing ....
 
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Mitspa

Guest
It wasn't until the 1920's when women got the right to vote. It wasn't until 1972 that women could no longer be discriminated against by employers. In the interim, there were a number of changes that allowed women freedoms that had hitherto only been given to men.

The reason there are more divorces now than there were in 1920 is because there are more people, and those peoples' attitudes to serious flaws in marriages are much less "grin-and-bear-it" than they were in the 1920's. There's no longer any pressurizing social duty to stay with an abusive partner; no longer any obligation to stay with an unfaithful partner; no longer any discernible social, legal or financial advantage to getting married.

Which, in my honest opinion, isn't necessarily a bad thing. My grandmother told me that my grandfather used to slap her if she "got out of line". "Back in those days, a woman just did what she was told". People don't stand for mild emotional abuse nowadays, much less serious physical abuse, and that can't be bad.

I think that men opt out of marriages because legally, marriage stands to at best financially burden a man, and to at worst financially destroy him; and women opt out of marriages because marriage has always been an institution which fundamentally limited women's social rights.

The way modern young men and women look at it, marriage is only worth it if it firstly brings some financial or social benefit to both partners, and secondly if it's fair and equal. In a lot of cases, it's neither of those things.

Young people by and large don't want a traditionalist marriage, and rather than get married and divorce, lots of people are just not getting married to begin with. A lot of people, myself included, think "if we have to legally bind ourselves in order to stay together, perhaps we aren't right for each other to begin with".
The family has been destroyed in our society, because the left wing propaganda has convinced good people they don't have a right to shape this society .... The idea that we need to promote more ungodliness now, is insane.
 

jamie26301

Senior Member
May 14, 2011
1,154
10
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39
It wasn't until the 1920's when women got the right to vote. It wasn't until 1972 that women could no longer be discriminated against by employers. In the interim, there were a number of changes that allowed women freedoms that had hitherto only been given to men.

The reason there are more divorces now than there were in 1920 is because there are more people, and those peoples' attitudes to serious flaws in marriages are much less "grin-and-bear-it" than they were in the 1920's. There's no longer any pressurizing social duty to stay with an abusive partner; no longer any obligation to stay with an unfaithful partner; no longer any discernible social, legal or financial advantage to getting married.
I agree with these things. Marriage may have worked until the end back in the day, but there were incentives. With women being more financially independent, they do not have to stay with someone in order to just survive. Couples need incentives, which in this day is not going to come so much from societal pressures... You have to WANT to make it work.

Which, in my honest opinion, isn't necessarily a bad thing. My grandmother told me that my grandfather used to slap her if she "got out of line". "Back in those days, a woman just did what she was told". People don't stand for mild emotional abuse nowadays, much less serious physical abuse, and that can't be bad.
It isn't a bad thing becuase of this, definitely, but now that the incentives are fewer for both partners, marriage in some respects is actually more challenging in this culture, because we have been fed "get married to get happy." When one or both partners isn't getting what they think is due, then the whole marriage was a mistake... The reasoning many people take.

I think that men opt out of marriages because legally, marriage stands to at best financially burden a man, and to at worst financially destroy him; and women opt out of marriages because marriage has always been an institution which fundamentally limited women's social rights.
Opt out as in not getting married, yeah, I see this. I think some people break marriages because of stress, sex life got stale (yes, adultury does happen because one partner won't satisfy the other to their desire). It's wrong and low, but that's why constructive communication is crucial. And actually, studies done on communication and effective practices in relationships have HELPED many couples.

Speaking of studies, Sirk, I can get a list for you. Any marriage and family textbook is littered with references to studies on martial relationships.

Young people by and large don't want a traditionalist marriage, and rather than get married and divorce, lots of people are just not getting married to begin with. A lot of people, myself included, think "if we have to legally bind ourselves in order to stay together, perhaps we aren't right for each other to begin with".
Well, in this society we have become very hedonistic about everything.

Young students want that dream job right out of college without working from the bottom.

People working at food joints feel above scrubing the floor, even though that's what they are paid to do, many do the bare min to avoid uncomfortable exertion. Ask about any American - a very clean and neat lobby to eat in is not common.

Taught the idea that if it's the right person, a marriage will just work and go smoothly. It seems pop culture really teaches young adults that hey, not happy? Get divorced! Don't work on it, because you deserve to be happy than be with the " wrong" person. Seriously, self-pleasures and instant gradification feuls this nation. Well, working through problems (that WILL at some point arise) isn't always fixed immediately. So, just ditch this marriage and go spouse huntung! There's much desire for lifelong faithfulness and love and care... but most people it seems want it without the tiedown.

I tend to think if someone will break a marriage frivously, they will enter one the same way. Vows, promises don't mean anything anymore, becuase in order to keep them often require sacrifice... but even though marriage isn't treated sacred it seems, the sacred vows are still used - for the warm fuzzies I suppose. :/

Marriage shouldn't even be tied to the gov. The divorce culture has been bad because of what all these lawyer fees do to the economy in how people spend their money and handle the division of assests. How it affects children's adjustments, which ultimately affects society.

Honestly, I think hedonism has more to do with the anti-marriage mindset in the State, than practically. Because a healthy, lifelong marriage doesn't just happen. You build it. You forgive one another. You sacrifice for one another and your marriage. And that's not in vogue, and just too hard and limiting.

Me, just living with someone and entering NO contract or ceremony whatsoever, I would be wondering if he will just up and leave when he feels like it. Like, what commitment is keeping him here? What reason does he have to stay if things aren't going well? I think marriage shouldn't be handled gov wise, but there should be some way to mark that commitment.

There's a reaon couples who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce - because the commitment wasn't part of the foundation - "my toothbrush is there, so why not?" or "Let's test our compatibility." The foundational mindset for living together is not based on permanency of the relationship. Not absolute, but one reason given why the conventional "testing" idea doesn't work as you'd think it should. (For example, sometimes couples who know they're not right marry anyway)
 
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