Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful

[onlinebuddy]

Btw, I think the title of the thread is inaccurate based on what was written in the article.
.

Is there a way to change the title on this forum?

 

[onlinebuddy]

Hey OP - You misquoted the pope when you titled this post: Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful. The misquote leads us to believe something different than what the article says.

The are the exact words of the Pope (sorry, I should have included this in my initial post):



Now, I have a problem understanding these lines:


What does he mean by communion and mediation of the church?
When did Jesus give the church (his body, believers) the power to mediate?
When he said the words "mediation of the church," I think the Pope meant: mediation by the Catholic Priest
So, the Pope was implying that the power of mediation lies with the Catholic priest, and that one can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ only through a Catholic priest.
Connecting directly to Jesus (and not through a priest) is termed as "do-it-yourself" and " "freelancing"!
He is saying that it is "dangerous" and "harmful" to try to have a relationship with Jesus Christ if not done through a Catholic Priest.
According to me this is an Old Covenant concept. A Christian is under the new covenant, where the only "High Priest" is Jesus! Amen!

Yes, I wrote the Original Post in a hurry. I later added the exact words of the Pope and have explained my concerns.

 

[onlinebuddy]

The Pope is specifically talking about those who say, "I have my Bible and my beliefs, I don't need fellowship, instruction, or correction outside of my bible and my beliefs." This is a dangerous belief. This is the belief system that created the JWs and the Mormons. This is the belief system that created Arius and Marcion. This is the belief system that created Charles Manson and Reverend Moon. Its an isolationist belief. God has not called us into a relationship with Him devoid of a relationship with the Body of Christ. God has bound us to Himself and each other. Christ said that we would be ONE fold. One meaning all of us together, not one as individuals. I agree with the Pope said. Its sad that people need to add to what he said without actually reading or understanding what he is saying.

I agree that it is dangerous to be a "lone ranger Christian," and we need the fellowship and the instruction and the correction of the church. The Bible does say that we must encourage and correct one another, and that we must not give up meeting together.

However, the JW's did not create the sole ranger Christian mentality. In fact, a Jehovah's Witness is strictly held accountable for his or her church attendance!

So who then was the Pope addressing? To understand this, we must first understand who the Pope claims to be.
Just to mention a few.....
He claims to be the infallible Head of a Church that has continuity from the time of Peter.
He claims to have the power to "absolve" sin as per the misquoted and misunderstood verse, John 20:23.
He claims to be the human mediator on earth who represents Christ.
He recently said that the Koran and the Bible contain the same teachings, and that Jesus Christ, Jehovah and Allah are names given to the same entity.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I'm afraid you don't actually understand the purpose of the Church. You seem to be more focused on the one who delivers the message (the Pope) rather on what he is saying. For me, it wouldn't make no difference if it was the Pope that said it, an orthodox patriarch, a protestant pastor or ...an user from CC.

The truth and reality of the Church is linked to the Incarnation of the Word.

The Incarnation of the Word doesn't represent for the Church a supernatural, abstract event that happened in history, an event about which you talk, you sing, you preach, but that hasn't any serious implication on the human life. NO!

Through the incarnation, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been offered life. And this life is being realized through the unity of the Church (the Body of Christ).

We have become brothers of Jesus Christ and we perfect ourselves in His Body; we united with Him just as the body is united with the head (read my signature).

Jesus Christ unites in His person the divine nature and the human nature; so, this means that God and humanity share in Jesus Christ a common way of existence; and this way of existence is unity, communion of love between persons and God ("I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one. I in them and you in me - so that they may be brought to complete unity.")

This unity and communion of love to which we are called is the way of existence of the Holy Trinity (see may signature, again).

I am not sure if I brought more light or more obscurity to my previous comment about the reality of the Church.

The thing is, the Pope was right. You may argue that the catholic church is not the church and so on. That's another thing. Also, I am sure that the Pope spoke for catholics who prefer to "live" their faith isolated from the community, and not for protestants.

I'm afraid you don't actually understand the purpose of the Church.

You haven't made it any clearer in this post...

You seem to be more focused on the one who delivers the message (the Pope) rather on what he is saying. For me, it wouldn't make no difference if it was the Pope that said it, an orthodox patriarch, a protestant pastor or ...an user from CC.

Why not!!!! You cannot isolate the message from the messenger!!! You must focus on who is speaking as well as what he is speaking.

The thing is, the Pope was right. You may argue that the catholic church is not the church and so on. That's another thing. Also, I am sure that the Pope spoke for catholics who prefer to "live" their faith isolated from the community, and not for protestants.

If you read the entire transcript of his message, you will know who the pope is referring to. When the Pope says church, he means Catholic Church. The Pope presumably acknowledges the Muslim faith, does not acknowledge a believer who does not belong to the RCC. These "non-catholic" believers are generally and ignorantly termed as "protestants."

So yes, the Pope is definitely addressing Catholics ( "catholics who prefer to "live" their faith isolated from the community"), but he is also indirectly addressing non-catholic believers whom he challenges to legalize or regularize their faith by coming under the hierarchical catholic institution. If they do not accept the mediating authority of the Pope, they are treading dangerous waters....

 

[Jackson123]

Would you prefer "the correction of the Church" "the guidance of the Church". This isn't about mediating between God and man, but correction of a false teaching, which comes through teachers, elders, etc. who are representatives of the Church's teachings. Now I admit its a very Catholic view. However, the point is that the Pope is saying that it is dangerous to claim personal relationship with Christ without fellowship or willingness to submit to the wisdom of elders.

How catholic church make correction when she pray to Mary?

Let the Holy spirit correct catholic.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Would you prefer "the correction of the Church" "the guidance of the Church". This isn't about mediating between God and man, but correction of a false teaching, which comes through teachers, elders, etc. who are representatives of the Church's teachings. Now I admit its a very Catholic view. However, the point is that the Pope is saying that it is dangerous to claim personal relationship with Christ without fellowship or willingness to submit to the wisdom of elders.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness- 2 Tim 3:16

24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. -Hebr 10: 24-25
Correction, teaching and guidance by fellow church-members and/or by the elders is not specifically a "Catholic view." It's a biblical view.
There is a serious difference between correcting and mediation, and one word cannot be used for the other.

 

[oldthennew]

the times are coming when many shall depart from the shame of the pagan brothers
and to mother Mary they will no longer bend the knee, for they will see the queen of heaven
in Mary's disguise and they will realize the modern steeples are but remnants of the
old-high-places....

 

[didymos]

Would appreciate comments on how biblical or unbiblical this is....
Church is essential for faith; there are no 'free agents,' pope says | National Catholic Reporter

Having a personal relationship With Jesus Is dangerous and harmful?
Well, then we had better keep away from 'His Vicar on Earth' and his minions too.

 

[Galahad]

The Pope is specifically talking about those who say, "I have my Bible and my beliefs, I don't need fellowship, instruction, or correction outside of my bible and my beliefs." This is a dangerous belief. This is the belief system that created the JWs and the Mormons. This is the belief system that created Arius and Marcion. This is the belief system that created Charles Manson and Reverend Moon. Its an isolationist belief. God has not called us into a relationship with Him devoid of a relationship with the Body of Christ. God has bound us to Himself and each other. Christ said that we would be ONE fold. One meaning all of us together, not one as individuals. I agree with the Pope said. Its sad that people need to add to what he said without actually reading or understanding what he is saying.

But Thomas, we are Christians. We follow the teaching of Jesus Christ.
Jorge M. Bergoglio does not. His organization has added, subtracted, multiplied, and divided bible teaching.

 

[Galahad]

Totally absurd. But then his recent comments where atheists will go to heaven if they are basically 'good' people and pets can go to heaven too, should have warned us to not be surprised at anything he says.

Did Jorge Mario Bergoglio say atheists will go to heaven! I'm going to look for that. Saying it is one thing, people still following the nut crack and those who rule with him...why? How?

Atheists are fools. Saying they will be in heaven...that's calling God a liar.

Jorge Mario Bergoglio is an antichrist.

 

[crossnote]

Would you prefer "the correction of the Church" "the guidance of the Church". This isn't about mediating between God and man, but correction of a false teaching, which comes through teachers, elders, etc. who are representatives of the Church's teachings. Now I admit its a very Catholic view. However, the point is that the Pope is saying that it is dangerous to claim personal relationship with Christ without fellowship or willingness to submit to the wisdom of elders.

What Scripture says... "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, "
My point is that Rome is forever trying to place some mediator between us and Christ in contadiction to 1Tim 2:5...Mary, the Priests, Saints, the Pope (vicar of Christ), etc. You can turn and twist his words all you want but history proves otherwise.

 

[Yet]

Tim Lafayette said the pope will make heaven and mother Teresa is already there. Now before you begin the beat the tar out of me, Teresa would tell the folks in India to call upon their own gods.

Billy Graham believes that Muslims, hindoos, Buddhists, all have Christ in them. Please do your own research.

Tim Lahaye, not Lafayette. This machine has the irritating habit of re-spelling some words for me. If I don't proof read what I write, this is what happens. Sorry. Tim Lahaye, the writer of the 'Left Behind Series', also has been financed by Rev. Moon. Moon is a sex crazed maniac and claims that Jesus screwed up and now he is Jesus that will straighten things out.
Many top tier wolves have been helped by this whack job. Oh the love of money that leads to all sorts of goodies!

 

[Yet]

What Scripture says... "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, "
My point is that Rome is forever trying to place some mediator between us and Christ in contadiction to 1Tim 2:5...Mary, the Priests, Saints, the Pope (vicar of Christ), etc. You can turn and twist his words all you want but history proves otherwise.

Vicar: to take the place of. Antichrist. To displace Christ. Broken record here. Same thing happens when any man tries to become the mediator between Jesus and man........such as the 'cleric' system.

 

[notuptome]

The Pope is specifically talking about those who say, "I have my Bible and my beliefs, I don't need fellowship, instruction, or correction outside of my bible and my beliefs." This is a dangerous belief. This is the belief system that created the JWs and the Mormons. This is the belief system that created Arius and Marcion. This is the belief system that created Charles Manson and Reverend Moon. Its an isolationist belief. God has not called us into a relationship with Him devoid of a relationship with the Body of Christ. God has bound us to Himself and each other. Christ said that we would be ONE fold. One meaning all of us together, not one as individuals. I agree with the Pope said. Its sad that people need to add to what he said without actually reading or understanding what he is saying.

Our unity is in Christ. Our unity is in the blood of Christ. Our unity is not in where or how we assemble ourselves together.

Even with common goals and objectives we can and at times must be separate.

We unite around Christ and the word of God. All parts of the body but not all the same part.

Tares and wheat grow together but in the harvest they are separated forever. Scripture does in fact teach that we are to come out from among them if we are to be blessed of God.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

All the times I've been in the popes church I have never found a common Spirit of worship.

I have found that Spirit in the highways and byways of life. In homes and on street corners even at work I have found the common unifying Spirit of fellow believers. Fellowship and worship of Christ as Savior in folds far and wide. Common denominator is Christ and the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[crossnote]

Tim Lahaye, not Lafayette. This machine has the irritating habit of re-spelling some words for me. If I don't proof read what I write, this is what happens. Sorry. Tim Lahaye, the writer of the 'Left Behind Series', also has been financed by Rev. Moon. Moon is a sex crazed maniac and claims that Jesus screwed up and now he is Jesus that will straighten things out.
Many top tier wolves have been helped by this whack job. Oh the love of money that leads to all sorts of goodies!

Go into settings and turn off "auto correction".

 

[phil112]

Christians are not made in a laboratory, but in a community called the church, Pope Francis said.

Why anyone reads what this man says is beyond me. The very first sentence is wrong so how can you believe anything else he says? A christian is "made" the moment one repents and turns from sin to God. francis, the catholic church, nor anyone or anything else makes a christian.
The pope puts himself in God's place as His authority here on earth and the only endorsement he has to do that is from man. Christ will have plenty to say to him on that day.
In response to some of you that quoted the scripture that we are not to forsake the assembling together, while true, we are also not to associate with apostates. When so much of the world has turned from God it becomes difficult in most places to find a church that follows His word. I know that from personal experience. That doesn't mean that we have to attend the nearest church just because.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

What Scripture says... "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, "

Hebrews 7:24-25
24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[Blain]

the times are coming when many shall depart from the shame of the pagan brothers
and to mother Mary they will no longer bend the knee, for they will see the queen of heaven
in Mary's disguise and they will realize the modern steeples are but remnants of the
old-high-places....

I think that was a prophecy just there, what you said sounded very true and prophetic.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Why anyone reads what this man says is beyond me. The very first sentence is wrong so how can you believe anything else he says? A christian is "made" the moment one repents and turns from sin to God. francis, the catholic church, nor anyone or anything else makes a christian.
The pope puts himself in God's place as His authority here on earth and the only endorsement he has to do that is from man. Christ will have plenty to say to him on that day.
In response to some of you that quoted the scripture that we are not to forsake the assembling together, while true, we are also not to associate with apostates. When so much of the world has turned from God it becomes difficult in most places to find a church that follows His word. I know that from personal experience. That doesn't mean that we have to attend the nearest church just because.

Many of us on this website have been brought up as Catholics, and our near and dear ones are Catholics. So what the Pope says, does affect us.

Christians are not made in a laboratory, but in a community called the church, Pope Francis said.

Although generally true, I noticed that something was amiss. And you have rightly pointed out what was missing. Sadly, many churches have become mere communities.

That doesn't mean that we have to attend the nearest church just because.

..just because u think God will smite you for non-attendance...

 

[maxwel]

Then read what he said. What I explained is dead on. The title of this thread is hardly what he said.

That's a good idea.
Here's what the Pope said.

Pope:
"There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church. These temptations are dangerous and harmful."

There is no place in scripture that says my relationship with Christ is built upon the MEDIATION of the Pope, or upon the MEDIATION of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

According to scripture, there IS NO MEDIATOR between ME and CHRIST.
According to scripture, I can go directly to Christ, WITHOUT NEED OF ANY MEDIATOR.
According to scripture, Christ himself is my DIRECT MEDIATOR with the Father.

1Timoth 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

There is ONE MEDIATOR, and that is CHRIST.
There is NO MEDIATOR BETWEEN ME & CHRIST.


This is really the whole crux of the difference between Protestants and Catholics... and it's never changed:
- Catholics believe they need the church as a mediator.
- Protestants believe the scripture, which says THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR between GOD & MAN, and that is CHRIST... and we go to Christ DIRECTLY.