The False Doctrine Most Professing Christians are unaware of.

[eternally-gratefull]

You do understand just-me that because the Jewish people rejected Jesus Christ as God, God has turned everything over to the Gentiles.

Paul was given the task of bring the Gospel of Salvation to the Gentiles. This is the time of the Gentiles, not the Jewish people. Their time is still in the Future when the Anti-Christ rules the World. Until then its the Gentiles who proclaim Jesus throught out the whole world, not the Jews.

I would say it is jew and gentile alike. there is no difference, thats the church age.. Neither jew or greek.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you seriously suggesting tht you have to become a Jew in order to be saved?

That's a good way to put it, and yes, that is basically what they're saying.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

FWIW, Jesus literally said 'Salvation is out of the Judeans'. That is the literal translation of the Greek. He was conversing with a Samaritan woman when he said that.

The Samaritans believed they were descended from Jacob, and therefore believed that GOD's promises to Jacob would be realized through them. Jesus let her know, that, no, GOD had separated the branch of Judah to bring salvation through.

This is a great mystery how GOD split the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob between two tribes. The birthright remained with Ephraim, but the ruler-ship, which normally went with the birthright, was branched off and given to Judah via David.

 

[valiant]

No. I have to believe what God has told us in His Word.
1 Corinthians 1:10 (NAS)
Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I don't see how this could work if people don't totally agree.

what an absurd statement. No two people totally agree, unless they are robots. If you think all the members of your congregation totally agree (except on the idea that they alone are right) you clearly do not know the members of your congregation.

What Paul was talking about was NOT agreement about detailed doctrine (apart from minimal essential doctrine) but agreement about final authority. Not Paul, not Apollos, and so on. They were to agree to unitedly believe essential doctrine as taught by the Apostles as a whole. And they were not to follow men (the very thing you are guilty of). We do the same when we acknowledge the authority of the New Testament

Ephesians 4:16 (NAS) from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Note that they grow together in LOVE not in detailed doctrine.

 

[just-me]

You're a follower of the Hebrew Roots cult, aren't you? Thank GOD your posts are so confusing that no one could get a handle on them if they tried.

You do understand just-me that because the Jewish people rejected Jesus Christ as God, God has turned everything over to the Gentiles.

out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. now we know how you really feel.

Paul was given the task of bring the Gospel of Salvation to the Gentiles. This is the time of the Gentiles, not the Jewish people. Their time is still in the Future when the Anti-Christ rules the World. Until then its the Gentiles who proclaim Jesus throught out the whole world, not the Jews.

Is that the way you both interpret Jesus' words recorded in John 4:22?

Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin.

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

Is this actually that hard to comprehend? Now we see why there is controversy. I quote this truth of Jesus and it's attacked with a vengeance.

 

[gb9]

This is the foundation that will begin to heal the division in the body that leads to agreement. It's a start whoever wants to adhere to these principles, and then we can begin to mature together.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22

If we refuse to be circumcised in heart to the same persuasion that the original believing Jews in Christ adhered to, and demand a different persuasion, (including all original scriptures they studied), I believe it's a contradiction to say we have been grafted into the true vine, while at the same time we are believing differently than the original Jewish persuasion manifested in scripture given to us "for salvation is of the Jews."

The RCC says salvation is through the church of the Gentiles. That's a clear contradiction of scripture.
The stranger and sojourner were circumcised into the Israelites, and were to adhere to their doctrine according to God's commandments. If they refused to do that, they were not part of the body. That spiritual concept hasn't changed in the New Covenant according to Jesus words in John 4:22

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Exodus 12:49

Investigate the original and see for yourself by looking into this perfect law of liberty and rightly determining the chronology of God's truth. We have a choice to take it, or leave it, and then the fruit is revealed to the true body of Christ.

A Gentile didn't pay for your debts.

out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. now we know how you really feel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is that the way you both interpret Jesus' words recorded in John 4:22?

Sadly, The woman understood what it meant, And you do not.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”



Had nothing to do with some law (if it did, No one can be saved before the law was given, meaning noah and abraham and adam and many others are lost in hell)

It has everything to do with the messiah, the christ, the redeemer of mankind.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. now we know how you really feel.

Some of us have known for along time now. Why do you think we go after him so much, He is a stain, and false teacher who demands we all follow his interpretation of the law. or else

 

[KennethC]

Do you think we can differ on doctrinal issues such as you and I do and still both be in the Body of Christ?

It depends on what doctrinal issues we all are differing on because as Apostle Paul said if a different gospel (Galatians 1:8), a different Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and comes teaching other than what Jesus taught (1 Timothy 6:3) is teaching a false doctrine that shows they are not in that body of Christ.

Only those who are preaching/teaching the words of Christ and building on that foundation (1 Corinthians 3) can be shown to be in the body of Christ, because the Holy Spirit can not deny Himself. Apostle John repeats what Paul said about not teaching the words of the Lord in 2 John 1:10.

 

[BenFTW]

-snip-

Rejecting even one smidgen of God's word in order to endorse His grace is where division begins, because rejecting certain parts of His given word to us is in actuality rejecting of His grace. This rejection is carnal, for the carnal mind is enmity against God.

Division arises not out of grace (or its endorsement), but out of those who would not accept it.

 

[gb9]

Some of us have known for along time now. Why do you think we go after him so much, He is a stain, and false teacher who demands we all follow his interpretation of the law. or else

also, it is my experience that eventually, what people really think will come out. stuff like what he posted above is almost sickening legalism. no grace, no love, no forgiveness, no mercy, as you said, my way or else.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I'm convinced that there can't possibly be right-dividing without considering every single word. Nobody gave me that opinion. It's something that is seen and was revealed through prayerful study.

I actually met a guy who told me that when he reads the bible he uses a black marker to blot out the things that don't apply to him. That just shocked me...even the words that he chose to describe how he rightly divides... (Just wow)

I've visited a few hundred churches to present the Gideon message, often invited to teach the Sunday School and preach a sermon even though not properly credentialed, and not supposed to go beyond my mission statement. Many of those churches were in a state of confusion, desperate, having been adulterated by former really ignorant pastors and teachers.

A pastor had produced a "New Testament" of his own version a page at a time handed out to members who would snap it into their loose leaf binder. The man had completely restructured it, leaving out verses, mixing verses, not using verse or chapter numbers so it would be very hard to figure out what was added or missing. I think he used the Thomas Jefferson Bible for a pattern. As a result the congregation had already split a few times, down from 800 to 170 regular members. After visiting around with the more mature, serious members, I learned there never was more than a few dozen that had any useful knowledge of scriptures, unable to explain the simplest doctrines. That made them vulnerable.

There are numerous ways a leader can distort truth even when reading straight out of a Bible word for word. The preacher might easily have been to seminary where an atheist taught some of his courses. Some professors turn Deist, or agnostic, letting their perverse thoughts enter into their lessons.

In our home church near Shreveport LA in 1973 our new pastor placed permanent markers in the backs of pews, then tell us when to mark out verses, especially those about speaking tongues. Then came covering up all that spoke of fearful things for backsliders. Then came a witch hunt to remove mentions of eternal punishment. On and on, until we voted him out, then voted to replace all those ruined Bibles. But the damage was already done to souls. All those well crafted lies that began as his slight "new perspectives" were for me diffic

It's the leaders that cause much of this problem, like the Pharisees did to the Jews, and the false teachers following Paul around.

 

[valiant]

Is that the way you both interpret Jesus' words recorded in John 4:22?

Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin.

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

Is this actually that hard to comprehend? Now we see why there is controversy. I quote this truth of Jesus and it's attacked with a vengeance.

which truth of Jesus? We do not 'attack' what Jesus said, we disagree with your interpretation of it. That is a very different matter..

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This is the foundation that will begin to heal the division in the body that leads to agreement. It's a start whoever wants to adhere to these principles, and then we can begin to mature together.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22

If we refuse to be circumcised in heart to the same persuasion that the original believing Jews in Christ adhered to, and demand a different persuasion, (including all original scriptures they studied), I believe it's a contradiction to say we have been grafted into the true vine, while at the same time we are believing differently than the original Jewish persuasion manifested in scripture given to us "for salvation is of the Jews."

"for salvation is of the Judeans" - BUT the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (John 4:23) Yes, salvation was first given to the Judeans - The God of Abraham and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; . . . . Romans 11:7 . . Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but he election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded . . .(8) . . God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear unto this day. . . .(10) Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway . . . (11) Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

God opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles (Acts 14:27) and by Peter's mouth the Gentiles were to hear the word of the gospel and believe (Acts 15:17). Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: (Rom. 3:29) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles (Rom. 9:24) For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[PeterJens]

Weeds, tares, lostness, sin, disagreements.

Just think about this a little. A man sincerely dedicates themselves to serve the Lord and goes off the rails.
Another has no intention of going one way or the other, but ends in believing up is down and down is up.

Now we are not called to sort this out, or judge people, just look for the good, point out sin, and love those we meet.
Idealists have never read the bible, because God is not an idealist but a pragmatist. He takes sinners and turns them into saints and forgives continually the stumbling idiot mistakes we make along the way. But part of walking in the way is forgiving, being gracious, seeing the good and seeking to bless.

If you want a perfect church, then you want something even God cannot create, but he works with the fragile humans he has called to love Him and to love those about them. Until you can learn to love all the different expressions of faith in the world, you do not see things from Gods perspective.

 

[KennethC]

You do understand just-me that because the Jewish people rejected Jesus Christ as God, God has turned everything over to the Gentiles.

Paul was given the task of bring the Gospel of Salvation to the Gentiles. This is the time of the Gentiles, not the Jewish people. Their time is still in the Future when the Anti-Christ rules the World. Until then its the Gentiles who proclaim Jesus throught out the whole world, not the Jews.

The gospel was given to the Jews first, and not all Jews rejected the gospel message !!!

Yes Apostle Paul was chosen to go out to the gentiles to give the gospel, but they were all commissioned to go to the gentiles. This is what Acts 10-11 teachings is about with Peter, the Lord showing him to go out to the gentiles to give the good news because we are no longer unclean to the Jews.

We were grafted in to provoke the unbelieving Jews in Christ to jealousy, but salvation for all is the same, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Jews become saved unto salvation through Jesus Christ right here and now just like we do !!!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The RCC says salvation is through the church of the Gentiles. That's a clear contradiction of scripture.
The stranger and sojourner were circumcised into the Israelites, and were to adhere to their doctrine according to God's commandments. If they refused to do that, they were not part of the body. That spiritual concept hasn't changed in the New Covenant according to Jesus words in John 4:22

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Exodus 12:49

Investigate the original and see for yourself by looking into this perfect law of liberty and rightly determining the chronology of God's truth. We have a choice to take it, or leave it, and then the fruit is revealed to the true body of Christ.

Even when a stranger or sojourner were circumcised within the tribes of Israel; they were still considered "outsiders".

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us (Jew and Gentile); Having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (Jew and Gentile) ONE new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both (Jew and Gentile) unto God in ONE body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them which were nigh. For through him we both (Jew and Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father. NOW therefore ye are NO MORE strangers and foreigners, but FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God. Eph. 2:14-19

THIS is the true body of Christ.

 

[KennethC]

Weeds, tares, lostness, sin, disagreements.

Just think about this a little. A man sincerely dedicates themselves to serve the Lord and goes off the rails.
Another has no intention of going one way or the other, but ends in believing up is down and down is up.

Now we are not called to sort this out, or judge people, just look for the good, point out sin, and love those we meet.
Idealists have never read the bible, because God is not an idealist but a pragmatist. He takes sinners and turns them into saints and forgives continually the stumbling idiot mistakes we make along the way. But part of walking in the way is forgiving, being gracious, seeing the good and seeking to bless.

If you want a perfect church, then you want something even God cannot create, but he works with the fragile humans he has called to love Him and to love those about them. Until you can learn to love all the different expressions of faith in the world, you do not see things from Gods perspective.

The pointing out of the proper teaching to others has nothing to do with having a perfect church, there is no such thing !!!

For there will always be wheat and tears growing together, but the concept of pointing out proper teaching of following the sound doctrine of everything the Lord Jesus taught is to let others know if they are part of the wheat or if they are a tear.

Apostle Paul himself said that he, another Apostle, or even an angel from God can not preach or teach other than what Jesus Christ already gave us. He says if they do then they are accursed, which means not saved !!!

Apostle Peter says the unlearned and unstable will twist and thus misuse Paul's words, and we see this by those who believe he taught different then Jesus.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It depends on what doctrinal issues we all are differing on because as Apostle Paul said if a different gospel (Galatians 1:8), a different Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and comes teaching other than what Jesus taught (1 Timothy 6:3) is teaching a false doctrine that shows they are not in that body of Christ.

Only those who are preaching/teaching the words of Christ and building on that foundation (1 Corinthians 3) can be shown to be in the body of Christ, because the Holy Spirit can not deny Himself. Apostle John repeats what Paul said about not teaching the words of the Lord in 2 John 1:10.

Kenneth . . . this is what she asked me:

Originally Posted by just-us-2

You said good stuff here. Now, I would like to ask you something related but not precisely pertaining in detail to any particular comment you made. I believe, and I think you do too, that true believers are the Body of Christ. Do you think we can differ on doctrinal issues such as you and I do and still both be in the Body of Christ?

This was my response:

Yes. To belong to the body of Christ is to believe in the only begotten Son of God - to confess him as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead . . . that is being born again of the Spirit and makes us sons of God and members together in the household of God.

Because the above is what makes us part of the body of Christ . . .

 

[Kefa54]

Two words...."Holly Spirit".