The False Doctrine Most Professing Christians are unaware of.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

so you are guessing? you don't have any facts to present?

No, not guessing at all. It's evident from his doctrine (among other things that I don't feel like discussing now). A quick way to remove your doubt is for you to ask him (or just-us-2, his wife) if he follows Hebrew Rots? I already did and he didn't respond.

 

[KennethC]

>>>> NOW . . . . you are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;<<<

that is interesting you bring this up... because IF we are all one in God's eyes... then certainly we should be harmonizing as ONE instead of dividing by CULTURE, GENDER, RACE and SOCIAL STRATA.

Yes we are all different parts of one body in Christ, and we have our different callings in that faith in Him.

However that does not mean that different contradicting doctrines can be taught among all those who profess to be believers, and all of them be saved through Christ unto salvation.

Part of believing in the Lord is keeping with the sound doctrine of His teachings and commands, and if anybody is teaching contradictory to what the Lord already taught then Apostle Paul said that is teaching another gospel and another Jesus. We know what their fate is if they do not repent of following that false teaching, and it is not eternal life !!!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I believe that is the first step, which is of course vital. I’m sure you know people who say they are Christians and still live a life of sin. I worked with a young girl at one time who claimed to be a Christian but lived with her boyfriend. It is sin and it was her choice to do it. She was no more a part of the Body of Christ than my dog. After the first step we must ‘practice’ salvation. Let me explain what I mean. If you give me a gift – let’s say, a nice new car – and I say thank you, that’s wonderful, etc. and park it in my garage, never driving it, what good is it? Do I really appreciate the gift? And, historically even, not speaking of Jesus and His disciples now but any major player in history, when people become followers of a leader, they try to learn all they can about him/her and what he/she teaches. They are devoted to that leader, as we should be to God. And we have a wonderful ‘owner’s manual’ to learn way more than any human teacher can teach us. Logically speaking, there would be no need for the entire Bible if we were supposed to ignore some of it.

What do you believe it means to be "born again of the Spirit"? When someone is born again, they are "partakers of the divine nature", does God take that nature back from man when he fails to WALK by the "owner's manual"? Does God stop being a Father? Does God annul the "legal adoption papers"? Am I saying that it is okay to live a sinful life after coming to God? NOPE Every born again believer should strive to obey "the owner's manual".

Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-20, (NAS)
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

That “Great Commission” given by Jesus is only being partly fulfilled most of the time today. Discipleship is practically a lost art because we are content to see people repeat the ‘sinners prayer’ after the preacher, and call it good enough. “ALL” gets left in the dust, and the new convert is soon bombarded with temptations by the adversary and has no idea how to fend him off. Hence, living with the sin they have always lived with…but they say they are ‘saved’ because that’s just how it’s done. Jesus didn’t stop instructing his disciples once they accepted Him as the Messiah – He continued to teach them.

I agree with you regarding discipleship . . .

 

[just-me]

They were not to vex (to treat violently) a stranger (a temporary inhabitant) nor oppress them - The children of Israel were to remember how they were treated when they were strangers in the land of Egypt and not treat a stranger in the same way . . . strangers were temporary inhabitants

One manner of law - the whole context is concerning blasphemy - so the law was that when one blasphemed the name of the Lord they were to be put to death - this was for the Israelite as well as for the stranger - the temporary inhabitant and yes that is carried over into the NT - Matt. 12:31,32

Romans 10:12 - There is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek - 1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. - Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus. . . .

In the NT - we do not keep separating Jew and Gentile, bond and free, even male and female because we are ONE. So when God looks upon the members of the body - he sees Christ's body - He doesn't see Jew, Gentile, male, female, bond, free - We are all the same in the body of Christ. Wouldn't you think that to keep making a distinction, when God no longer sees a distinction, is wrong?

NOW . . . . you are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but fellowcitizens with the saints and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

I agree with what you say, mostly, all except the "blaspheme" part that I cannot quite comprehend. I have highlighted this in your post. Please explain more about how you see this blaspheme part. I'm a little confused over that one part. The rest of what you present is totally agreeable to me, and scripture, as I understand.

Could we come to an agreement that the basic principles of these aspects are the same in both OT and NT doctrine by keeping in mind that God has not, and does not change?

 

[KennethC]

What do you believe it means to be "born again of the Spirit"? When someone is born again, they are "partakers of the divine nature", does God take that nature back from man when he fails to WALK by the "owner's manual"? Does God stop being a Father? Does God annul the "legal adoption papers"? Am I saying that it is okay to live a sinful life after coming to God? NOPE Every born again believer should strive to obey "the owner's manual".

I agree with you regarding discipleship . . .

Read Hebrews 6:4-6 for it shows there that these have partook in receiving of the Holy Spirit, and yet when they fell away they could not be brought to repent !!!

 

[just-me]

You're exactly like the pharisees who thought they believed all things which are written in the law and in the prophets, but Christ said they didn't.

So are you actually insinuating that Paul was like you say I am according to Acts 24:14, simply because I worship as he did?

 

[just-me]

Read Hebrews 6:4-6 for it shows there that these have partook in receiving of the Holy Spirit, and yet when they fell away they could not be brought to repent !!!

It puts the truth to shame doesn't it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read Hebrews 6:4-6 for it shows there that these have partook in receiving of the Holy Spirit, and yet when they fell away they could not be brought to repent !!!

No, It says the partook of the HS, It never said they recieved the Holy Spirit.

It says if they could fall away, they could never repent, again, huge difference.

The context is the law (where one CAN fall away, and where that one who falls away CAN return (by sacrifice)

The argument is against returning to law. and why it is futile. Not if one can fall away or not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It puts the truth to shame doesn't it?

Yes, You do. But thats alright, Those truly seeking will find truth, inspite of people like you who distort truth. Praise God for the Holy Spirit.

 

[just-me]

No, not guessing at all. It's evident from his doctrine (among other things that I don't feel like discussing now). A quick way to remove your doubt is for you to ask him (or just-us-2, his wife) if he follows Hebrew Rots? I already did and he didn't respond.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118758-hebrew-roots-movement.html?highlight=

Read it, and you will see that your false accusations are totally unfounded. In fact, let all who read your post read this, and they will see the truth and the falsehood being propagated.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I agree with what you say, mostly, all except the "blaspheme" part that I cannot quite comprehend. I have highlighted this in your post. Please explain more about how you see this blaspheme part. I'm a little confused over that one part. The rest of what you present is totally agreeable to me, and scripture, as I understand.

Could we come to an agreement that the basic principles of these aspects are the same in both OT and NT doctrine by keeping in mind that God has not, and does not change?

One manner of law - the whole context is concerning blasphemy - And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. . . . . And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congreation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death . . . . Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses. . . . . . . This seems to be the major context .

 

[KennethC]

It amazes me how some try to reword things to make them say something different !!!

Partaking (meaning having something) of the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 6:4-6 is the receiving of Him, because unbelievers do not receive the Holy Spirit and thus also nobody who does not have the Holy Spirit can not partake of Him !!!

This also is not a hypothetical situation and is referring to the falling away from the faith that is repeated multiple times in the bible.

It says they can not be brought back to repentance because of their own doing, not because the Lord would not accept them back if they repented. Hebrews 6:8 explains what happens to these that do not repent and come back to the Lord, and it says they are rejected and close to being cursed and who's end is to be burned !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118758-hebrew-roots-movement.html?highlight=

Read it, and you will see that your false accusations are totally unfounded. In fact, let all who read your post read this, and they will see the truth and the falsehood being propagated.

Do you follow the Hebrew Roots movement, or some variant of it?

 

[just-me]

No, not guessing at all. It's evident from his doctrine (among other things that I don't feel like discussing now). A quick way to remove your doubt is for you to ask him (or just-us-2, his wife) if he follows Hebrew Rots? I already did and he didn't respond.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118758-hebrew-roots-movement.html?highlight=

Read it, and you will see that your false accusations are totally unfounded. In fact, let all who read your post read this, and they will see the truth and the falsehood being propagated.

Do you follow the Hebrew Roots movement?

Why do you ask?

According to your own words you already know. In your own mind of assumptions and false accusations you are convinced. If you don't know I ain't gonna tell ya. LOL

Your character is exactly like the people that had Paul arrested. LOL

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It amazes me how some try to reword things to make them say something different !!!

Partaking (meaning having something) of the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 6:4-6 is the receiving of Him, because unbelievers do not receive the Holy Spirit and thus also nobody who does not have the Holy Spirit can not partake of Him !!!

This also is not a hypothetical situation and is referring to the falling away from the faith that is repeated multiple times in the bible.

It says they can not be brought back to repentance because of their own doing, not because the Lord would not accept them back if they repented. Hebrews 6:8 explains what happens to these that do not repent and come back to the Lord, and it says they are rejected and close to being cursed and who's end is to be burned !!!

OH NO! . . . Do we now we have a contradiction? - one verse says one's end is to be burned - another verse says whatever work one builds upon the foundation of Christ - gold, silver, precious stones, or wood, hay, stubble - these works will be tried by fire - BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED . .

 

[just-us-2]

Good morning just-us-2
Hope you are doing well . . Let us remember that this is the day the LORD has made and we will rejoice and be glad in it!

Okay . . You have made yourself quite clear - you are more learned in keeping the OT "spiritually" while I am "less learned" in that area. Now if I continue to take the OT "literally" because that is how I believe it to be, especially for the Israelites of that day - then I am not a part of the body of Christ?

You know what I believe makes us part of the body - if you believe that is not sound doctrine and if you want to insist that I am not part of the body . . I won't keep insisting to you then that I am part of the body of Christ . . . IMHO, I stand approved before God and not you.

Thank you, I am doing pretty well today. We WILL rejoice in it and while we are at it, I hope the adversary is miserable with the punch we have given him. I had a post ready and strangely enough it disappeared and I was suddenly on the login screen for cc. He wants us to continue to be at odds with one another and I refuse... so I retyped it all!
I apologize for not making myself clear in my post to you – I most certainly do believe you are a part of the Body of Christ. I did not mean to make it sound like I was putting myself above you in any way. We are both about the same age and have a lot of years behind us, from which we have learned many things. There is no doubt in my mind that you could teach me some things. I am so sorry I was not clear in my post - and since it was a public post, the apology should also be public. And repentance – I will try my best to be more clear when I post. Please forgive me.

 

[just-me]

One manner of law - the whole context is concerning blasphemy - And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. . . . . And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congreation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death . . . . Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses. . . . . . . This seems to be the major context .

I was wondering if that was the only thing that the stranger affiliated with Israel had to adhere to. The scripture is obviously true, then as physical, and now (through the New Covenant) spiritual, by killing the sin. Here is scripture for you to better understand my thoughts.

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:21

Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity. Ecclesiastes 11:10

Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Isaiah 1:16

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 2 Corinthians 6:17

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why do you ask?

According to your own words you already know. In your own mind of assumptions and false accusations you are convinced. If you don't know I ain't gonna tell ya. LOL

Your character is exactly like the people that had Paul arrested. LOL

I ask because I want to know what your doctrine is. Why can't you be direct? What are you afraid of?

 

[BenFTW]

I ask because I want to know what your doctrine is. Why can't you be direct? What are you afraid of?

Its a long and arduous process, but if you want to see what he believes here is the thread: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/121940-god-did-away-some-his-own-sayings.html

If you don't want to read all of it, then here is the TL;DR (too long didn't read summary): http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...away-some-his-own-sayings-29.html#post2282614 and here too: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...away-some-his-own-sayings-28.html#post2281554

The last two links provide you with important parts/posts to the discussion that reveal his position.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why do you ask?

According to your own words you already know. In your own mind of assumptions and false accusations you are convinced. If you don't know I ain't gonna tell ya. LOL

Your character is exactly like the people that had Paul arrested. LOL

Do you believe all Scripture (Word) is still true and nothing has been abolished?