Heresy, no! Twisted doctrine, yes? (Meaning that those who think KJV is the only inspired version and without error, not the actual Bible!)
Is the King James only Position Heresy?
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Heresy, no! Twisted doctrine, yes? (Meaning that those who think KJV is the only inspired version and without error, not the actual Bible!)
AUTHORIZED VERSION
III. History of the English Translation now in common Use — The authorized version was undertaken at the command of King James I, in consequence of several objections having been made by the Puritans to the bishops' translation at the second day's sitting of the conference held at the palace of Hampton Court, January 16 th, 1603-4. The method proposed by the king for the accomplishment of the new translation was thus That the version should be made by some of the most learned men in both the universities; that it then should be reviewed by certain of the bishops; that it should then be laid before the privy council; and, last of all, be ratified by royal authority. Accordingly, fifty-four men, pre-eminently distinguished for piety and learning, were appointed to execute this great work. However, the list of persons actually employed in the translation contains only forty-seven names. Though several of the persons thus appointed were made bishops before the work was completed, yet, as none of them were so at the time of the appointment, it would appear that the number needed to make up the deficiency is to be found in the fact of certain bishops having been especially named as having the work in some manner under their control. This view is not improbable when it is known that Bancroft, archbishop of Canterbury, is said to have made some alterations in the version; and Bilson, bishop of Winchester, was one of those who gave the work its final revision. The following is a list of the translators' names, with the parts assigned to each company (see Clarke's Comment. Genesis Pref. to O. T.; Macclure, Authors of Engl. Bible, N.Y. 1853):
1. The Pentateuch; the story from Joshua to the First Book of the Chronicles exclusively; these ten persons at Westminster: Dr. Andrews, fellow and master of Pembroke Hall, in Cambridge; then dean of Westminster; afterward bishop of Westminster. Dr. Overall, fellow of Trinity Coll.; master of Kath. Hall, in Cambridge; then dean of St. Paul's; afterward bishop of Norwich. Dr. Saravia. Dr. Clarke, fellow of Christ Coll., in Cambridge; preacher in Canterbury. Dr. Laifield, fellow of Trin. Coll., in Cambridge; parson of St. Clement Danes. (Being skilled in architecture, his judgment was much relied on for the fabric of the Tabernacle and Temple.) Dr. Leigh, archdeacon of Middlesex; parson of All-Hallows, Barking. Master Burgley. Mr. King. Mr. Thompson. Mr. Bedwell, of Cambridge; vicar of Tottenham, near London.
2. From the First of the Chronicles, with the Rest of the Storj, and the Hagiographa, viz., Job, Psalms, Proverb., Canticles, Ecclesiastes; the following eight persons at Cambridge: Master Edward Lively. Mr. Richardson, fellow of Emman. Coll., afterward D. ).; master first of Peter-House Coll., then of Trin. Coll. Mr. Chaderton, afterward D.D.; fellow first of Christ Coll., then master of Emman. Coll. Mr. Dillingham, fellow of Christ Coll.; beneficed at ----, in Bedfordshire, where he died, a single and a wealthy man. Mr. Andrews, afterward D.D., brother to the Bishop of Winchester, and master of Jesus Coll. Mr. Harrison, the rev. vice-master of Trinity Coll. Mr. Spalding, fellow of St. John's Coll., in Cambridge, and Hebrew professor there. Mr. Bing, fellow of Peter-House Coll., in Cambridge, and Hebrew professor there.
3. The Four Greater Prophets, with the Lamentation, and the Twelve Lesser Prophets; these seven persons at Oxford: Dr. Harding, pres. of Magdalen Coll. Dr Reynolds, pres. of Corpus Christi Coll. Dr. Holland, rector of Exeter Coll., and king's professor. Dr. Kilby, rector of Lincoln Coll., and regius professor. Master Smith, afterward D. D., and bp. of Gloucester. (He wrote the preface to the version.) Mr. Brett, of a good family, beneficed at Qainton, in Buckinghamshire. Mr. Fairclowe.
4. The Prajyer of Manasseh, and the Rest of the Apocrypha; the following seven at Cambridge: Dr. Duport, prebend of Ely, and master of Jesus Coll. Dr. Brainthwait, first master of Emmanuel Coll., then master of Gonvil and Caius Coll. Dr. Radclyffe, one of the senior fellows of Trinity Coll. Master Ward, of Emman. Coll., afterward D.D.; master of Sidney Coll., and Margaret professor. Mr. Downs, fellow of St. John's Coll., and Greek professor. — Mr. Boyce, fellow of St. John's Coll., prebend of Ely, parson of Boxworth, in Cambridgeshire. Mr. Ward, regal, afterward D.D., prebend of Chichester, rector of Bishop-Waltham, in Hampshire.
5. The Fours Gospels, Acts of the Apostles, Apocalypse; these eight at Oxford Dr. Ravis, dean of Christ Church, afterward bp. of London. Dr. Abbott, master of University Coll., afterward archbp. of Canterbury. Mr. Erdes. Mr. Thomson. Mr. Savill. Dr. Peryn. Dr. Ravens. Mr. Harmer.
6. The Epistles of St. Paul, and the Canonical Epistle.; these seven at Westminster: Dr. Baulowe, of Trinity Coll., in Cambridge dean of Chester, afterward bishop of Lincoln. Dr. Hutchenson. Dr. Spencer. Mr. Fenton. Mr. Rabbet. Mr. Sanderson. Mr. Dakins.
The following instructions were drawn up for their proceedings:
1. "The ordinary Bible read in the church, commonly called the Bishops' Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit."
2. "The names of the prophets and the holy writers, with the other names in the text, to be retained as near as may be, according as they are vulgarly used."
3. "The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, as the word church not to be translated congregation."
4. "When any word hath divers significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most eminent fathers, being agreeable to the propriety of the place and the analogy of faith."
5. "The division of the chapters to be altered either not at ill, or as little as may be, if necessity so require."
6. "No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot, without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the text."
7. "Such quotations of places to be marginally set down as shall serve for the fit references of one Scripture to another."
8. "Every particular man of each company to take the same chapter or chapters; and having translated or amended them severally by himself, where he think good, all to meet together, to confer what they have done, and agree for their part what shall stand."
9. "As any one company has despatched any one book in this maniner, they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously; for his majesty is very careful in this point."
10. "If any company, upon the review of the book so sent, shall doubt or differ upon any places, to send them word thereof to note the places, and therewithal to send their reasons; to which if they consent not, the difference to be com. pounded at the general meeting, which is to be of the chief persons of each company, at the end of the work."
11. "When any place of special obscurity is doubted of, letters to be directed by authority, to send to any learned in the land for his judgment in such a place."
12. "Letters to be sent from every bishop to the rest of his clergy, admonishing them of this translation in hand, and to move and charge as many as, being skillful in the tongues, have taken pains in that kind, to send their particular observations to the company, either at Westminster, Cambridge, or Oxford, according as it was directed before in the king's letter to the archbishop."
13. "The directors in each company to be the deans of Westminster and Chester for Westminster, and the king's professors in Hebrew and Greek in the two Universities."
14. "These translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible, viz., Tyndale's, Cover dale's, Matthew's, Whitchurch's, Geneva."
To these the following rule was added: 15. "Besides the said directors before mentioned, three or four of the most ancient and grave divines in either of the universities, not employed in translating, to be assigned by the vice-chancellor, upon conference with the rest of the heads, to be overseers of the translation, as well Hebrew as Greek, for the better observation of the 4 th rule above specified."
According to these regulations, each book passed the scrutiny of all the translators successively. In the first instance, each individual translated every book which was allotted to his division. Secondly, the readings to be adopted were agreed upon by the whole of that company assembled together, at which meeting each translator must have been solely occupied by his own version. The book thus finished was sent to each of the other companies to be again examined; and at these meetings it probably was, as Selden informs us, that "one read the translation, the rest holding in their hands some Bible, either of the learned tongues, or French, Spanish, Italian, etc. If they found any fault, they spoke; if not, he read on." In this way every precaution was taken to secure a faithful translation, as the whole Bible underwent at least six different revisions by the most learned men in the kingdom. The translation was commenced in the spring of 1607, and occupied about three years, and the revision of it occupied about three quarters of a year more. It was printed in Gothic letter, and first published in folio in 1611, with the title, "The Holy Bible Conteyning the Old Testament, and the New: Newly translated out of the originall Tongues: And with the former translations diligently compared and reuised by his Maiesties speciall Comandement. Appointed to be read in Churches." The expense of this translation appears not to have been borne by the king, nor by any government commission, but chiefly, if not entirely, by Mr. Barker.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Looking at the instructions to the translators, it seems that very little room was left for inspiration!
III. History of the English Translation now in common Use — The authorized version was undertaken at the command of King James I, in consequence of several objections having been made by the Puritans to the bishops' translation at the second day's sitting of the conference held at the palace of Hampton Court, January 16 th, 1603-4. The method proposed by the king for the accomplishment of the new translation was thus That the version should be made by some of the most learned men in both the universities; that it then should be reviewed by certain of the bishops; that it should then be laid before the privy council; and, last of all, be ratified by royal authority. Accordingly, fifty-four men, pre-eminently distinguished for piety and learning, were appointed to execute this great work. However, the list of persons actually employed in the translation contains only forty-seven names. Though several of the persons thus appointed were made bishops before the work was completed, yet, as none of them were so at the time of the appointment, it would appear that the number needed to make up the deficiency is to be found in the fact of certain bishops having been especially named as having the work in some manner under their control. This view is not improbable when it is known that Bancroft, archbishop of Canterbury, is said to have made some alterations in the version; and Bilson, bishop of Winchester, was one of those who gave the work its final revision. The following is a list of the translators' names, with the parts assigned to each company (see Clarke's Comment. Genesis Pref. to O. T.; Macclure, Authors of Engl. Bible, N.Y. 1853):
1. The Pentateuch; the story from Joshua to the First Book of the Chronicles exclusively; these ten persons at Westminster: Dr. Andrews, fellow and master of Pembroke Hall, in Cambridge; then dean of Westminster; afterward bishop of Westminster. Dr. Overall, fellow of Trinity Coll.; master of Kath. Hall, in Cambridge; then dean of St. Paul's; afterward bishop of Norwich. Dr. Saravia. Dr. Clarke, fellow of Christ Coll., in Cambridge; preacher in Canterbury. Dr. Laifield, fellow of Trin. Coll., in Cambridge; parson of St. Clement Danes. (Being skilled in architecture, his judgment was much relied on for the fabric of the Tabernacle and Temple.) Dr. Leigh, archdeacon of Middlesex; parson of All-Hallows, Barking. Master Burgley. Mr. King. Mr. Thompson. Mr. Bedwell, of Cambridge; vicar of Tottenham, near London.
2. From the First of the Chronicles, with the Rest of the Storj, and the Hagiographa, viz., Job, Psalms, Proverb., Canticles, Ecclesiastes; the following eight persons at Cambridge: Master Edward Lively. Mr. Richardson, fellow of Emman. Coll., afterward D. ).; master first of Peter-House Coll., then of Trin. Coll. Mr. Chaderton, afterward D.D.; fellow first of Christ Coll., then master of Emman. Coll. Mr. Dillingham, fellow of Christ Coll.; beneficed at ----, in Bedfordshire, where he died, a single and a wealthy man. Mr. Andrews, afterward D.D., brother to the Bishop of Winchester, and master of Jesus Coll. Mr. Harrison, the rev. vice-master of Trinity Coll. Mr. Spalding, fellow of St. John's Coll., in Cambridge, and Hebrew professor there. Mr. Bing, fellow of Peter-House Coll., in Cambridge, and Hebrew professor there.
3. The Four Greater Prophets, with the Lamentation, and the Twelve Lesser Prophets; these seven persons at Oxford: Dr. Harding, pres. of Magdalen Coll. Dr Reynolds, pres. of Corpus Christi Coll. Dr. Holland, rector of Exeter Coll., and king's professor. Dr. Kilby, rector of Lincoln Coll., and regius professor. Master Smith, afterward D. D., and bp. of Gloucester. (He wrote the preface to the version.) Mr. Brett, of a good family, beneficed at Qainton, in Buckinghamshire. Mr. Fairclowe.
4. The Prajyer of Manasseh, and the Rest of the Apocrypha; the following seven at Cambridge: Dr. Duport, prebend of Ely, and master of Jesus Coll. Dr. Brainthwait, first master of Emmanuel Coll., then master of Gonvil and Caius Coll. Dr. Radclyffe, one of the senior fellows of Trinity Coll. Master Ward, of Emman. Coll., afterward D.D.; master of Sidney Coll., and Margaret professor. Mr. Downs, fellow of St. John's Coll., and Greek professor. — Mr. Boyce, fellow of St. John's Coll., prebend of Ely, parson of Boxworth, in Cambridgeshire. Mr. Ward, regal, afterward D.D., prebend of Chichester, rector of Bishop-Waltham, in Hampshire.
5. The Fours Gospels, Acts of the Apostles, Apocalypse; these eight at Oxford Dr. Ravis, dean of Christ Church, afterward bp. of London. Dr. Abbott, master of University Coll., afterward archbp. of Canterbury. Mr. Erdes. Mr. Thomson. Mr. Savill. Dr. Peryn. Dr. Ravens. Mr. Harmer.
6. The Epistles of St. Paul, and the Canonical Epistle.; these seven at Westminster: Dr. Baulowe, of Trinity Coll., in Cambridge dean of Chester, afterward bishop of Lincoln. Dr. Hutchenson. Dr. Spencer. Mr. Fenton. Mr. Rabbet. Mr. Sanderson. Mr. Dakins.
The following instructions were drawn up for their proceedings:
1. "The ordinary Bible read in the church, commonly called the Bishops' Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit."
2. "The names of the prophets and the holy writers, with the other names in the text, to be retained as near as may be, according as they are vulgarly used."
3. "The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, as the word church not to be translated congregation."
4. "When any word hath divers significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most eminent fathers, being agreeable to the propriety of the place and the analogy of faith."
5. "The division of the chapters to be altered either not at ill, or as little as may be, if necessity so require."
6. "No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot, without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the text."
7. "Such quotations of places to be marginally set down as shall serve for the fit references of one Scripture to another."
8. "Every particular man of each company to take the same chapter or chapters; and having translated or amended them severally by himself, where he think good, all to meet together, to confer what they have done, and agree for their part what shall stand."
9. "As any one company has despatched any one book in this maniner, they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously; for his majesty is very careful in this point."
10. "If any company, upon the review of the book so sent, shall doubt or differ upon any places, to send them word thereof to note the places, and therewithal to send their reasons; to which if they consent not, the difference to be com. pounded at the general meeting, which is to be of the chief persons of each company, at the end of the work."
11. "When any place of special obscurity is doubted of, letters to be directed by authority, to send to any learned in the land for his judgment in such a place."
12. "Letters to be sent from every bishop to the rest of his clergy, admonishing them of this translation in hand, and to move and charge as many as, being skillful in the tongues, have taken pains in that kind, to send their particular observations to the company, either at Westminster, Cambridge, or Oxford, according as it was directed before in the king's letter to the archbishop."
13. "The directors in each company to be the deans of Westminster and Chester for Westminster, and the king's professors in Hebrew and Greek in the two Universities."
14. "These translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible, viz., Tyndale's, Cover dale's, Matthew's, Whitchurch's, Geneva."
To these the following rule was added: 15. "Besides the said directors before mentioned, three or four of the most ancient and grave divines in either of the universities, not employed in translating, to be assigned by the vice-chancellor, upon conference with the rest of the heads, to be overseers of the translation, as well Hebrew as Greek, for the better observation of the 4 th rule above specified."
According to these regulations, each book passed the scrutiny of all the translators successively. In the first instance, each individual translated every book which was allotted to his division. Secondly, the readings to be adopted were agreed upon by the whole of that company assembled together, at which meeting each translator must have been solely occupied by his own version. The book thus finished was sent to each of the other companies to be again examined; and at these meetings it probably was, as Selden informs us, that "one read the translation, the rest holding in their hands some Bible, either of the learned tongues, or French, Spanish, Italian, etc. If they found any fault, they spoke; if not, he read on." In this way every precaution was taken to secure a faithful translation, as the whole Bible underwent at least six different revisions by the most learned men in the kingdom. The translation was commenced in the spring of 1607, and occupied about three years, and the revision of it occupied about three quarters of a year more. It was printed in Gothic letter, and first published in folio in 1611, with the title, "The Holy Bible Conteyning the Old Testament, and the New: Newly translated out of the originall Tongues: And with the former translations diligently compared and reuised by his Maiesties speciall Comandement. Appointed to be read in Churches." The expense of this translation appears not to have been borne by the king, nor by any government commission, but chiefly, if not entirely, by Mr. Barker.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Looking at the instructions to the translators, it seems that very little room was left for inspiration!
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Kefa54
Guest
The issue is...Do we have a bible and do we read it.
I prefer the Holman Christian Study bible. Only because the way it is written seems to flow better to me.
Kefa
I prefer the Holman Christian Study bible. Only because the way it is written seems to flow better to me.
Kefa
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Viligant_Warrior
Guest
In other words, you firmly affirm an untenable, illogical position because ...
... well, because you want to. Why didn't you just say that in the first place? It would have been more honest.
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atwhatcost
Guest
First, just seems fair I should answer the OP question -- nah, nt heresy. Heresy is taking away from God who he really is, so Bible can't be heresy, no matter what we think of any given translation personally. (If however, it gets changed to fit a POV, then we's got problems and it's time to talk heresy.)
Second, getting back to this is a cool conversation with T-Larich... (please don't think anything I'm saying is simply making sport of arguing with you. I'm a writer, so get fascinated by copyright stuff.
)... so, writerly speaking, (I'm saying this as someone who is getting ready to get my first novel published), that royally stinks! (No pun intended, but enjoyed.) Really, so I can print any book I want from England and make money off of it, or is this a new take on the old adage of "KJV only?" (Oh, that pun was very much intended, but I'm asking if that's only a law for the KJV or a law for all UK books in any other country.)
If that's a law for all English books, I hear this one series would make me some money -- Harry Potter. (I know. Doesn't really work like that, since Rowling has the copyrights for the American editions too, which were printed by an American publisher, but I like to dream big. lol)
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atwhatcost
Guest
Then they are truly blessed. lol
Now I'm wondering if Spain has there own version of this argument though.
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Kefa54
Guest
Because it was an interesting topic and I am to lazy to look for scripture that says KJV is better,
Kefa
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Viligant_Warrior
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atwhatcost
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Interesting history behind the KJV. There was a reason King James wanted a new translation. At that time everyone knew Lex Rex. (The law is king.) James had other ideas, so appointed 70 men to create a version of the Bible that said Rex Lex. (The King is Law.) To the credit of the translators they tried their best to translate as accurately as they could with what was available to them. And because of that, after all that effort it remains Lex Rex and God's word.
To me that is another moment in time when God's will won!
To me that is another moment in time when God's will won!
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Kefa54
Guest
When I was a child. I could no-more read King James and get anything out of it except confused. We had a 35 pound family bible I looked at once in the while.
Kefa
If I made the same "argument" (and it IS no more than just a point to incite argument) that reading the NIV only couldn't be proven to be wrong................. so what?
Are you just bored, and looking to scrap?
E
ember
Guest
I had the KJV in 'child's' edition growing up...it was white and was illustrated...I was mostly fascinated by the illustrations
Actually, I had a number of really good children's Bible Stories books written so a child could understand also with lots of well done pictures...I loved those books and read them over and over!
I still like the KJ though but have a number of other translations as well
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I grew up with it, it was a normal language to me, I thought it was Gods language myself..lol
I had a bunch of silly thoughts as a kid I am embarrassed by..
E
ember
Guest
I have been known to venture an opinion...LOL! yeah I dunno....kind of like those 2 verses in Proverbs where we are told not to answer a fool according to his folly and in the next breath we are told to just go right ahead and do so...haha
not calling anyone a fool guys, so relax...just making a comparison...that's how the little noggin works
here's a funny one...a cousin of mine was asked how Moses crossed the Red Sea and said that Moses went to a gas station, got a big tuba (blown up inner tube .. we used to call them tubas as kids) and jumped in and swam across
he really said that...all the adults thought it was so cute and joked about it for weeks