Is the Devil bound right now...?
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The same 1000 years of the universal church saw Satan locked up.
Nakedness in dress, nudes in Art, people living without money flowing as the Mark of the beast, monasteries everywhere, with monks avoiding sexual promiscuity all support this historical event of the 1000 year church before the Reformation:
Rev. 20:4
And I saw thrones (of Universal Christian authority) and they, (the 144,000 monks of Catholic monasticism: [Rev14:4]), sat upon them (Christianity mandated as the ONLY legal religion in the Empire, in 380AD), and (theocratic) judgment was given unto them (in the days of Catholic Monasticism):
and I saw, (visions), the souls, (the spirit-like psyches), of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, (Old Testament and New), and which had not worshiped (by participation in the paganistic practices and sexual excesses fueling) the beast (of the Roman economic system which had been based upon selfish self-interest), neither his image(on his coinage), neither had received his mark (of ledgered accounts recorded) upon their foreheads, or in (wages in) their hands; and they lived (as angels in the minds of Christians who have followed, these beheaded saints, in the memories of congregations who worshipped in churches built upon the bones of their remains)...
.... and (they) reigned (in Monasticism) with Christ a thousand years, (from 54 AD upon the appearance of the Holy Comforter, until 1054 AD with the first Schism of Greek Orthodoxy).
Its hard news to read here, for sure, since people have long thought Revelation was totally Christian, but the Jews have established the writing was and had been held by their own Essenes, most whom converted to Christianity after the crucifixion.
These men had had Revelation old enough to be in Hebrew at one time.
*...the apocalypse has become especially important to Jewish students since it has been discovered by Vischer (see bibliography) that the main apocalypse actually belongs to Jewish apocalyptic literature.
REVELATION (BOOK OF) - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Here is good example of how you interpret scripture: you say that "Revelation informs the reader quite plainly that it was Jesus who bound the devil" when that is not plain, for scripture states that an angel coming down out of heaven having the key to the Abyss is the one who binds Satan and not Jesus himself. So, you are already in error coming out of the gate!
And now you've already begun the second error regarding this interpretation, for regarding the key, scripture says the following:
"I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."
According to the Scripture above, Jesus holds the keys of death and Hades, not the events in Revelation. Yes, he is in control of everything, but the verse above does not say what you said it does. Having the keys of death and Hades, means that he has authority over death and punishment and has nothing to do with the key to the Abyss, which I can see is where you are going with this. Do you see how you twist the Scriptures to fit your position?
Scripture states that Christ defeated Satan, that is, he disarmed the power's of darkness by fulfilling the law and paying the penalty for our sins, but your error is interpreting that defeat and applying it to Satan's literal binding in the Abyss of Rev.20:1-3
You have proved absolutely nothing! You're like magician with his wand. You twirl it a couple of times and then, Viola! See, not a literal thousand years and that with nothing to back up.
The above is another popular ploy with A-Millennialism and that is to pose the question as to the make up of the key. The answer is, what the key is made of, whether of substance or a spiritual key, it is irrelevant. It does not change the event of Satan being thrown into the Abyss. A-millennialist will say, oh since Satan is a spiritual being, then then a metal chain couldn't hold him and neither could a spiritual key hold, and therefore, it is symbolism and therefore there is not a literal binding. I tell you the truth, something is currently keeping the beast bound in the Abyss, for he is not able to come out until that angel opens the Abyss at the fifth trumpet and that with the same key that will be used to lock it back up.
Whatever kind of key it is, Scripture demonstrates that a key is required to open the Abyss at the fifth trumpet and a key is required to lock it back up.
And now you've already begun the second error regarding this interpretation, for regarding the key, scripture says the following:
"I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."
According to the Scripture above, Jesus holds the keys of death and Hades, not the events in Revelation. Yes, he is in control of everything, but the verse above does not say what you said it does. Having the keys of death and Hades, means that he has authority over death and punishment and has nothing to do with the key to the Abyss, which I can see is where you are going with this. Do you see how you twist the Scriptures to fit your position?
Scripture states that Christ defeated Satan, that is, he disarmed the power's of darkness by fulfilling the law and paying the penalty for our sins, but your error is interpreting that defeat and applying it to Satan's literal binding in the Abyss of Rev.20:1-3
You have proved absolutely nothing! You're like magician with his wand. You twirl it a couple of times and then, Viola! See, not a literal thousand years and that with nothing to back up.
The above is another popular ploy with A-Millennialism and that is to pose the question as to the make up of the key. The answer is, what the key is made of, whether of substance or a spiritual key, it is irrelevant. It does not change the event of Satan being thrown into the Abyss. A-millennialist will say, oh since Satan is a spiritual being, then then a metal chain couldn't hold him and neither could a spiritual key hold, and therefore, it is symbolism and therefore there is not a literal binding. I tell you the truth, something is currently keeping the beast bound in the Abyss, for he is not able to come out until that angel opens the Abyss at the fifth trumpet and that with the same key that will be used to lock it back up.
Whatever kind of key it is, Scripture demonstrates that a key is required to open the Abyss at the fifth trumpet and a key is required to lock it back up.
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Which part of "Apokalupsis" don't you understand cupid? The word means something being revealed that was previously unknown because it was veiled. Therefore, how could the Jews have received it prior to John? The Jews had no information Regarding the information contained in the book of Revelation. John received it on the island of Patmos for the first time. Why don't you people get off the internet and try reading the word of God. Boy, Satan is having a heyday with all these false teachings on the internet!
Do you believe that nothing is impossible for God? Why would it be so hard to imagine that God has some type of spiritual force-field under the earth to keep spiritual beings from passing through the earth? Obviously there is something that is restricting them from coming out at their leisure. Regardless though, it is irrelevant and that because the scripture says, that he is bound in the Abyss. You're using man's reasoning to circumvent the scripture.
eternally-gratefull,
based on your earlier comments you have no understanding what the phrase is even about respective of scripture. You have latched so strongly to man made theories and ideas that you cannot see scripture outside of those clouded lens. You are part of the sola scripturist milieu where men use scripture to develop their own ideas of what it might mean. You have a lot of competition when it comes to what scripture means.
It isn't any wonder that almost 85% of the poll voters do not even understand the topic since they believe that Christ still has not come and defeated Satan.
So, when you say that you have stated scripture your comments are quite irrelevant because they do not even address the topic.
Have already found it. It is because I believe in Christ's promise and believe that the Holy Spirit has lived up to His word. You need to rely upon yourself and other men to develope your theories based on scripture, when the Holy Spirit has given us the whole of His revelation, including the meaning in the beginning.
Man has never had the authority to interpret scripture and historically, when men tried to impose their innovations upon scripture they failed every single time. Only where man has placed himself above the Holy Spirit do we get man made theories being passed as litigimate meaning of scripture. Yet the sola scripturist milieu is nothing but chaos, confusion and division with hundreds of interpretations on every theory known.
Premillennialism is but one, that even after 200 years it still has not reached a point of unity, hardly the Gospel once given. It is just man competing with other men as to who can come up with the best theory.
You are welcome to to live in that confusion.
The fact that you have no evidence to present to refute the texts I posted but need to resort to these kinds of irrlevant, non substantive rhetoric says a lot.
based on your earlier comments you have no understanding what the phrase is even about respective of scripture. You have latched so strongly to man made theories and ideas that you cannot see scripture outside of those clouded lens. You are part of the sola scripturist milieu where men use scripture to develop their own ideas of what it might mean. You have a lot of competition when it comes to what scripture means.
It isn't any wonder that almost 85% of the poll voters do not even understand the topic since they believe that Christ still has not come and defeated Satan.
So, when you say that you have stated scripture your comments are quite irrelevant because they do not even address the topic.
Have already found it. It is because I believe in Christ's promise and believe that the Holy Spirit has lived up to His word. You need to rely upon yourself and other men to develope your theories based on scripture, when the Holy Spirit has given us the whole of His revelation, including the meaning in the beginning.
Man has never had the authority to interpret scripture and historically, when men tried to impose their innovations upon scripture they failed every single time. Only where man has placed himself above the Holy Spirit do we get man made theories being passed as litigimate meaning of scripture. Yet the sola scripturist milieu is nothing but chaos, confusion and division with hundreds of interpretations on every theory known.
Premillennialism is but one, that even after 200 years it still has not reached a point of unity, hardly the Gospel once given. It is just man competing with other men as to who can come up with the best theory.
You are welcome to to live in that confusion.
The fact that you have no evidence to present to refute the texts I posted but need to resort to these kinds of irrlevant, non substantive rhetoric says a lot.
MY LOOK HOW YOU HAVE TO ADD WORDS TO THE BIBLE TO MAKE IT SAY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY.
NOW look what it really says:
Isaiah 13:9-13 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] See, the day of the LORD is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger-- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it .
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
Mark 13:22-26 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But in those days, following that distress, "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
[SUP]25 [/SUP] the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
Joel 3:14-16 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. [SUP]26 [/SUP] "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Revelation 9:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
Revelation 6:12-17 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
THAT IS JUST ONE EVENT, AND THERE CERTAINLY ARE OTHERS, THAT PROVE YOUR WHOLE THEORY TO BE PURE FALSEHOOD. THAT DARKENING EVENT WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN, and has not already happened. EVERYTHING FROM REVELATION 5:1 THRU REVELATION 22:21 IS YET TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
What causes the Sun, Moon, and Stars to darken? Some say a Nuclear Winter; Some say it is a massive amount of ash in the upper atmosphere from NUMEROUS volcanoes exploding at the same time, but the Bible says it is smoke from the Abyss, which is where the worst of the demons are being held since the FLOOD of NOAH. GOD will open the abyss and turn those demons loose on the unbelievers of mankind.
NOW look what it really says:
Isaiah 13:9-13 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] See, the day of the LORD is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger-- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it .
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
Mark 13:22-26 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But in those days, following that distress, "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
[SUP]25 [/SUP] the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
Joel 3:14-16 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. [SUP]26 [/SUP] "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Revelation 9:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
Revelation 6:12-17 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
THAT IS JUST ONE EVENT, AND THERE CERTAINLY ARE OTHERS, THAT PROVE YOUR WHOLE THEORY TO BE PURE FALSEHOOD. THAT DARKENING EVENT WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN, and has not already happened. EVERYTHING FROM REVELATION 5:1 THRU REVELATION 22:21 IS YET TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
What causes the Sun, Moon, and Stars to darken? Some say a Nuclear Winter; Some say it is a massive amount of ash in the upper atmosphere from NUMEROUS volcanoes exploding at the same time, but the Bible says it is smoke from the Abyss, which is where the worst of the demons are being held since the FLOOD of NOAH. GOD will open the abyss and turn those demons loose on the unbelievers of mankind.
E
I hate to use this example. I have many close friends who are amills, who I am sure will be in heaven with me,
Amil theology came about in the third century when the roman church, having to switch from a literal to a symbolic interpretation of scripture, to fit in all their pagan ritual, and fit their antisemitic theology,
Before that, it was never heard of.
Sadly some of the reformers brought this form of theology out with them.
Amil theology came about in the third century when the roman church, having to switch from a literal to a symbolic interpretation of scripture, to fit in all their pagan ritual, and fit their antisemitic theology,
Before that, it was never heard of.
Sadly some of the reformers brought this form of theology out with them.
E
The jews do not even consider daniel as prophetic scripture.
So you will have to have more proof than this.
And revelation is considered the Daniel of the NT.
Again, Not only was the same God involved with OT prophesy and Revelation. But John (the writer of revelation) was hebrew..
so yes, it will have the same type of language, we should not be suprised.
So you will have to have more proof than this.
And revelation is considered the Daniel of the NT.
Again, Not only was the same God involved with OT prophesy and Revelation. But John (the writer of revelation) was hebrew..
so yes, it will have the same type of language, we should not be suprised.
deal with it...
If only you took time to study scripture.
Jesus in known by 30+ titles in the Book of Revelation, alone!
In fact, the same exact word rendered as 'angel' means 'messenger' as dictated by the context.
Jesus is clearly referred to as 'Messenger' outside of Revelation...
And you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger (angel) of God, as Christ Jesus. (Gal 4.14)
Again, and again.....your assertions are completely and utterly without scriptural merit...
If only you took time to study scripture.
Jesus in known by 30+ titles in the Book of Revelation, alone!
In fact, the same exact word rendered as 'angel' means 'messenger' as dictated by the context.
Jesus is clearly referred to as 'Messenger' outside of Revelation...
And you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger (angel) of God, as Christ Jesus. (Gal 4.14)
Again, and again.....your assertions are completely and utterly without scriptural merit...
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Minister of Information, They are not near Bagdad. Bowman, He's bound I tell you, bound. 
Re: deal with it...
What you said above is a typical ploy in an attempt to discredit those who teaching the truth. Just because I don't hold to the same interpretation that you do does not mean that I have not studied, it just means that I have a different interpretation than you do.
Yes, Jesus has different designations, but "an angel" is not one of them. John has already recognized Jesus as the Lord and as the Lamb, the rider on the white horse, as the King of kings and the Lord of lords and therefore since he has already seen Christ throughout the visions, John is not going to refer to him as "an angel". Not only that, but Jesus is already seen as the One riding on the white horse, so if anything John would identified him as the rider on the horse or as the Lamb and not as an angel. Furthermore, there is nothing in the Scripture that would allude to the that angel as being Christ. There is just not enough information to come to that conclusion. It would be pure conjecture to assign Christ as being that angel.
Here is the actual verse:
"and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. [/quote]
In the scripture above, Paul says, "you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself". So Paul is speaking about the Galatian's original love for him and his comparison mentions two examples of that love, one, "As if I were an angel of God" and two, "as if I were Christ Jesus himself." Two distinct persons, an angel of God and Christ! As usual, you are misinterpreting the scripture, for you are attempting to make Paul's reference to the angel as referring to Christ, yet they are two individual comparisons. Who needs to take time to study scripture?
Oh, how you people circumvent and twist the Scriptures to fit you personal position!
What you said above is a typical ploy in an attempt to discredit those who teaching the truth. Just because I don't hold to the same interpretation that you do does not mean that I have not studied, it just means that I have a different interpretation than you do.
Yes, Jesus has different designations, but "an angel" is not one of them. John has already recognized Jesus as the Lord and as the Lamb, the rider on the white horse, as the King of kings and the Lord of lords and therefore since he has already seen Christ throughout the visions, John is not going to refer to him as "an angel". Not only that, but Jesus is already seen as the One riding on the white horse, so if anything John would identified him as the rider on the horse or as the Lamb and not as an angel. Furthermore, there is nothing in the Scripture that would allude to the that angel as being Christ. There is just not enough information to come to that conclusion. It would be pure conjecture to assign Christ as being that angel.
Here is the actual verse:
"and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. [/quote]
In the scripture above, Paul says, "you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself". So Paul is speaking about the Galatian's original love for him and his comparison mentions two examples of that love, one, "As if I were an angel of God" and two, "as if I were Christ Jesus himself." Two distinct persons, an angel of God and Christ! As usual, you are misinterpreting the scripture, for you are attempting to make Paul's reference to the angel as referring to Christ, yet they are two individual comparisons. Who needs to take time to study scripture?
Oh, how you people circumvent and twist the Scriptures to fit you personal position!
Re: deal with it...
According to YOUR logic, then John the baptist MUST be an angel...
Mat 11.10 - 11
For this is the one about whom it has been written: "Behold, I send out My messenger (angelon) before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You." Mal. 3:1 Truly I say to you, There has not arisen among those born of a woman any greater than John the Baptist. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he is.
Mark 1.2 - 4
as it has been written in the Prophets, "Behold, I send My messenger (angelon) before Your face, who will prepare Your way before You; the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight." Mal. 3:1; Isa. 40:3 John came baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for remission of sins.
Luke 7.27 - 28
This is he about whom it has been written: "Behold, I send My messenger (angelon)" before Your face, who "will prepare Your way before You." Mal. 3:1 For I say to you, Among those born of a woman, no prophet is greater than John the Baptist. But the least one in the kingdom of God is greater than he is.
According to YOUR logic, then John the baptist MUST be an angel...
Mat 11.10 - 11
For this is the one about whom it has been written: "Behold, I send out My messenger (angelon) before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You." Mal. 3:1 Truly I say to you, There has not arisen among those born of a woman any greater than John the Baptist. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he is.
Mark 1.2 - 4
as it has been written in the Prophets, "Behold, I send My messenger (angelon) before Your face, who will prepare Your way before You; the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight." Mal. 3:1; Isa. 40:3 John came baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for remission of sins.
Luke 7.27 - 28
This is he about whom it has been written: "Behold, I send My messenger (angelon)" before Your face, who "will prepare Your way before You." Mal. 3:1 For I say to you, Among those born of a woman, no prophet is greater than John the Baptist. But the least one in the kingdom of God is greater than he is.