Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[eternally-gratefull]

Do not forget those 3 words in red as there is another side shown in the bible, and that is those that for one reason or another walk away from Him.

Apostle James says unless they return to the Lord when this happens their soul will not be saved !!!

This actually makes me sad. Someone opened a thread and said people sins should make us weep. It is not their sins that should make us weep. It is that fact satans lie can be so good. that people can do things like this to keep a false belief in tact.

Why did you ignore the fact the passage said he is able to save to the utmost. why , because they did not walk away. No. BECAUSE HE ALWAYS MAKES INTERCESSION FOR THEM.

This says they can NEVER LOSE SALVATION. because he makes intercession for all THINGS, even if they walked away.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Faith and love does not mean you don't have to do it, as for a true faith and true love will show in obedience to do as the Lord Jesus commanded us to do.

Well I sense something under the surface that you're not being forthright about. Jesus commanded us to have faith and love. So faith and love are obedience. Yet you seem to imply that something else is required to prove obdience. I'd like to know what the is. Please don't say, 'what Jesus commanded' because that's not being honest and clear.

 

[Angela53510]

Again if you or your husband lived in fear when taught about one can walk away from the faith in Christ and not end up with eternal life. Then you were taught wrong by that church in the way they handled the teaching, not in the teaching itself.

1 John 2-4 is a good read for believers to let them know they have eternal life to get rid of any worry about being in that boat.

And again I never said anything about our own works, our own fruit saving us, so please stop with this !!!

Works of the faith and the fruit of the Holy Spirit are proof of one who is truly saved through Christ. Jesus Christ Himself said those who do not have that fruit will be cut off and burned, and this does not have anything to do with 1 Corinthians 3 as one from Jesus is separating believers who abide in Him from unbelievers/disobedient who do not abide in Him. And Paul is talking about faithfulness by believers in the faith !!!

Faith - "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

"by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:8-9

Really, your whole post is absurd! Of course Jesus separates believers from unbelievers. By definition, they are NOT saved. He is not cutting off believers, but unbelievers.

Unbelievers are disobedient by definition, because they do not believe in Jesus. Talk about kindergarten 101!

If you are saved, you will be following Christ. Or, you will be believing and hanging on by your teeth, because someone told you that things you do, your sin, disobedience, lack of fruit, etc.will somehow cause an omnipotent, ominipresent, omniscient and loving but just God to throw you into hell. Rather than God's mercy, grace and love being the source of our salvation.

Either you believe, you have the faith that God placed in your heart, or you do not! Too much nonsense about freewill, I think. That we determine our future, and not God.

When you say that you need to SHOW the works, which you have said over and over, then that is works, by definition. When you think you can lose your salvation, that is works. There is simply no other word for it.

Sheesh!

 

[KennethC]

Well I sense something under the surface that you're not being forthright about. Jesus commanded us to have faith and love. So faith and love are obedience. Yet you seem to imply that something else is required to prove obdience. I'd like to know what the is. Please don't say, 'what Jesus commanded' because that's not being honest and clear.

Faith and love is not the only thing that Jesus commanded, and by following those means you will follow the rest.

We can not say that is all we have to obey and the rest is not required, and what does Jesus commanded all believers in the Great Commission to do (Matthew 28:19-20)???

The great commission is for all believers not just the original 11 Apostles, and the Lord Jesus also commanded repentance, baptism, forgiving of others, keeping our confession in Him, not to willfully continue to sin. The flip side the Lord said to not obeying these things is not still salvation.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Faith and love is not the only thing that Jesus commanded, and by following those means you will follow the rest.

We can not say that is all we have to obey and the rest is not required, and what does Jesus commanded all believers in the Great Commission to do (Matthew 28:19-20)???

The great commission is for all believers not just the original 11 Apostles, and the Lord Jesus also commanded repentance, baptism, forgiving of others, keeping our confession in Him, not to willfully continue to sin. The flip side the Lord said to not obeying these things is not still salvation.

Jesus didn't command every believer to go out into the world and make disciples. He told that to 11 men whom he personally trained. It's not for everybody. Some are called to do it, most aren't.

Everything else you mentioned sums up in faith and love. So I guess unless you have something else, it is safe to assume that faith and love are obedience.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith and love is not the only thing that Jesus commanded, and by following those means you will follow the rest.

We can not say that is all we have to obey and the rest is not required, and what does Jesus commanded all believers in the Great Commission to do (Matthew 28:19-20)???

The great commission is for all believers not just the original 11 Apostles, and the Lord Jesus also commanded repentance, baptism, forgiving of others, keeping our confession in Him, not to willfully continue to sin. The flip side the Lord said to not obeying these things is not still salvation.

You will not obey the rest, if you deny the WAY to follow the rest is faith and love.

For every time you even think you are doing good apart from faith and love, you are doing of a carnal nature.

 

[KennethC]

Faith - "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

"by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:8-9

Really, your whole post is absurd! Of course Jesus separates believers from unbelievers. By definition, they are NOT saved. He is not cutting off believers, but unbelievers.

Unbelievers are disobedient by definition, because they do not believe in Jesus. Talk about kindergarten 101!

If you are saved, you will be following Christ. Or, you will be believing and hanging on by your teeth, because someone told you that things you do, your sin, disobedience, lack of fruit, etc.will somehow cause an omnipotent, ominipresent, omniscient and loving but just God to throw you into hell. Rather than God's mercy, grace and love being the source of our salvation.

Either you believe, you have the faith that God placed in your heart, or you do not! Too much nonsense about freewill, I think. That we determine our future, and not God.

When you say that you need to SHOW the works, which you have said over and over, then that is works, by definition. When you think you can lose your salvation, that is works. There is simply no other word for it.

Sheesh!

It depends on rather a person continues in the faith of Jesus Christ or not that salvation rests on, not on works that are only the proof of a true saving faith.

Also please stop with trying to use your education to act like you are more knowledgeable then others in God's word, because there are some that have never gone to a college or Seminary school who know just as much as you and me if not more when it comes to His word.

It does not take a college education to understand the Word of God !!!

 

[just-me]

Isaiah 12
1 And in that day thou shalt say, O Lord, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

 

[KennethC]

Jesus didn't command every believer to go out into the world and make disciples. He told that to 11 men whom he personally trained. It's not for everybody. Some are called to do it, most aren't.

Everything else you mentioned sums up in faith and love. So I guess unless you have something else, it is safe to assume that faith and love are obedience.

There again is your misunderstanding as we are all called to share the gospel and bring others to Christ, and the part of being baptized and observing/obeying all that He commanded is for all believers. Not just the 11 !!!

 

[KennethC]

Just for a heads up I am no longer going to address anybody unless they are discussing the topic of this thread.

If anything else is brought up that shows those who bring up things that do not align with the thread topic are seeking out to cause strife and leads to unedifying behavior.

If you want to address the topic of the OP lets go, else wise I will no longer reply to you !!!

 

[KennethC]

Abraham and Isaac

Here we have another showing of justice, mercy, and faith as by faith Abraham trusted and did as God commanded Him to do.

By justice he was to sacrifice his only son for God, as a picture of the sacrifice Jesus made for us.

By mercy God provided a ram to be sacrificed because of the fear and love of God that Abraham showed by not holding back his only son from Him.

 

[ember]

It is not the topic that stirs up strife though Ember, and just because there are multiple threads on the same topic does not mean it is to stir up strife.

Look I have had my disagreements with Just-me as well and with a few others, but it was still kept civil, friendly, and respectful.

There is absolutely no need to be unedifying toward others who disagrees, and I know what you are saying because I have been attacked constantly on here to where I almost left at one time and even had my account set for deletion before a number of people talked me into coming back.

The name I am under now is not my original account as I had to start a new one because of that one was deleted.

I would be all happy for the stopping of the dismembering of others on here, as for your picture I have felt a number of times like the man in the middle being pulled apart by the horses.

I wasn't referring to this board or folks I have never seen and vice versa...you begin to understand just how bad it can be when you are betrayed by those closest to you who believe they are doing God a service for basically undermining everything you have done and your very character

as for the picture, I was seeing it more as the body of Christ being pulled apart by believers

well you know, we have to each answer for our own words and actions...hoping that might give some pause, but since everyone is right to the point of death, guess I'll just leave off as the whole thing has become pointless IMO and of course the op is wanting everyone to fall in line with his reflections and blah blah blah

yeah...not so good

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Abraham and Isaac

Here we have another showing of justice, mercy, and faith as by faith Abraham trusted and did as God commanded Him to do.

By justice he was to sacrifice his only son for God, as a picture of the sacrifice Jesus made for us.

By mercy God provided a ram to be sacrificed because of the fear and love of God that Abraham showed by not holding back his only son from Him.

Just more hypocrisy.

Your not responding to the thread

Your proving the thread is off kilter.because all those things were before the law.

Ben is right, you people ignoring others is just childish. And prevents you from being exposed to truth.

I actually am starting to feel sorry for you

 

[just-me]

Abraham and Isaac

Here we have another showing of justice, mercy, and faith as by faith Abraham trusted and did as God commanded Him to do.

By justice he was to sacrifice his only son for God, as a picture of the sacrifice Jesus made for us.

By mercy God provided a ram to be sacrificed because of the fear and love of God that Abraham showed by not holding back his only son from Him.

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Genesis 22:2

It is astounding to me that this place that Abraham was willing to offer Isaac was also the threshing floor of Ornan at Moriah where David offered and burnt offering and a peace offering after numbering the strength of Israel which God did want done.

Then Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the Lord appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1 (this was according to the plans that God gave to Moses)

Obviously, this is the same mountain complex as was the "place of the skull."

A burnt offering represents devotion unto God.
A peace offering represents communication with God.

Thanks Kenneth, this is very nice!!!

After Melchizedek, king is Salem, came the Canaanites, and what was to later to become Jerusalem and they called it "Jebus." When David finally conquered the city, (using Hezekiah's tunnel) it was named Jerusalem. (the place of peace)

Judgment, mercy, and faith all rolled up into one place.

 

[KennethC]

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Genesis 22:2

It is astounding to me that this place that Abraham was willing to offer Isaac was also the threshing floor of Ornan at Moriah where David offered and burnt offering and a peace offering after numbering the strength of Israel which God did want done.

Then Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the Lord appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1 (this was according to the plans that God gave to Moses)

Obviously, this is the same mountain complex as was the "place of the skull."

A burnt offering represents devotion unto God.
A peace offering represents communication with God.

Thanks Kenneth, this is very nice!!!

After Melchizedek, king is Salem, came the Canaanites, and what was to later to become Jerusalem and they called it "Jebus." When David finally conquered the city, (using Hezekiah's tunnel) it was named Jerusalem. (the place of peace)

Judgment, mercy, and faith all rolled up into one place.

Yes it amazes me that in these that the justification by faith that Abraham showed in his obedience, that some try to state this was only meant for justification in front of others.

Abraham only took two servants with him and Isaac, and he had the two servants wait at the bottom of the hill while he took Isaac up to be sacrificed which means they were alone.

This was God testing Abraham's faith, and the NT says our faith will be tested as well !!!

 

[ember]

Well I apologize. I didn't mean for there to be bite to my facetiousness. Just trying to point out in an indirect way that there is not going to be peace when people with diametrically opposed doctrines are allowed to argue their points.

No I hate the strife, but what are we to do? Let false teachers have their say unopposed? Whether you or anyone else here realizes it or not, doctrine is salvation.

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. 1 Timothy 4:16​

One thing this kind of interaction does for me personally is that it sharpens my understanding immensely, and brings what I know in my heart into sharp focus in my mind.

good...I apologize to you also then and thank you for your response!

as I already stated to Ken, I see that pic as the body of Christ being pulled apart...not any one of us individually

believers have to reach a point in their maturity where they just do not get into such fighting and nastiness ... I would not call most people here teachers...and they would in turn be wise not to refer to themselves that way as the Bible is plain they have the bigger responsibility

I agree we all go digging into our Bibles, but is doctrine really the end result of discourse with other believers?

Cause we may as well just paint Titanic on the whole mess and look for a lifeboat if so

It's not doctrine that Jesus said would make us one

Whether you or anyone else here realizes it or not, doctrine is salvation.

when you have time, maybe you can flesh that thought out for me

Thanks!

 

[KennethC]

good...I apologize to you also then and thank you for your response!

as I already stated to Ken, I see that pic as the body of Christ being pulled apart...not any one of us individually

believers have to reach a point in their maturity where they just do not get into such fighting and nastiness ... I would not call most people here teachers...and they would in turn be wise not to refer to themselves that way as the Bible is plain they have the bigger responsibility

I agree we all go digging into our Bibles, but is doctrine really the end result of discourse with other believers?

Cause we may as well just paint Titanic on the whole mess and look for a lifeboat if so

It's not doctrine that Jesus said would make us one



when you have time, maybe you can flesh that thought out for me

Thanks!

Well if doctrine does not matter for salvation then Paul wasted his time warning others of those who preach another gospel, another Jesus, and bring teachings other then what Jesus already gave and call them accursed ???

I had to address this because I see this stated a lot lately that doctrine teaching doesn't matter, but the bible warns a lot about following after false doctrines. This is what apostasy is all about !!!

 

[just-me]

Yes it amazes me that in these that the justification by faith that Abraham showed in his obedience, that some try to state this was only meant for justification in front of others.

Abraham only took two servants with him and Isaac, and he had the two servants wait at the bottom of the hill while he took Isaac up to be sacrificed which means they were alone.

This was God testing Abraham's faith, and the NT says our faith will be tested as well !!!

Yes it is, and the word also says that faith can be increased. I suppose so, for God provided the sacrifice for Abraham as He has for the whole world.
2 Corinthians 10:15


2 servants at the bottom of the mount. I was thinking about what they might represent in the New Covenant with Christ. Have any thoughts?

I wonder if Isaac might have thought that same as what Jesus said. Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Matthew 27:46

Mark 15:34

 

[ember]

He has been posting scriptures and been responding, just not to all posts as he is waiting for others to find this in the Word and post it instead of just questioning him on what the purpose is.

Seek and you shall find, ask and it will be given to you, knock and the door will be opened !!!

in all fairness, I have been the op of a few threads and if someone asks questions, well I am going to answer them because I do not think I am the lord of the manor...or the mistress of the manor I guess

come on...he's being a stuck up prig about the whole thing

prig: prigpriɡ/
noun

• a self-righteously moralistic person who behaves as if superior to others.

so like maybe if he answers people their legitimate questions it would seem he wants an actual discussion and spoon feeding the correct answers, according to him, are not all he actually wants

come on...in a real time situation, he wouldn't be asked for another 'lesson'

we can all learn from each other...I come here because I find it interesting and a good cross section...mind you, if it is an accurate cross section? gadzooks...the dearth of proper and called by God teachers is worse than we might think

 

[ember]

How many times does Jesus and Paul have to say all things are possible for those who believe before it is taken as truth ??? (Matthew 19:26, Mark 9:23, Philippians 4:13)

Also love one another is not the only thing that Jesus taught and commanded, so why limit it to just that one command ???

only those things that are within the DEFINED perimeters of what God has put in place/allows/is His direct will/etc

the problems start when someone runs with this verse and thinks it means ANYTHINGS instead of all things

(leaves and thinks about banging her head on a wall, but decides that won't help)