Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.
- Thread starter just-me
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E
I can make that arguement better than most folks here
it wasn't doctrine they nailed to the cross
I never said doctrine doesn't matter
YOU are saying that I said that
Now you are doing to me what you have done to Ben...don't you see that?
doesn't bother me in this thread as the entire thing is ridiculous IMO, but for your own sake, realize what you have done
it wasn't doctrine they nailed to the cross
I never said doctrine doesn't matter
YOU are saying that I said that
Now you are doing to me what you have done to Ben...don't you see that?
doesn't bother me in this thread as the entire thing is ridiculous IMO, but for your own sake, realize what you have done
K
Here is your quote:
"It's not doctrine that Jesus said would make us one"
Now if you did not mean it to come off that way then I am sorry, but us being one in the body of Christ should also be teaching the same doctrinal teachings of Christ. No variances are to be in the body as it is shown in scripture that a variance in doctrine shows true believers from false believers.
"It's not doctrine that Jesus said would make us one"
Now if you did not mean it to come off that way then I am sorry, but us being one in the body of Christ should also be teaching the same doctrinal teachings of Christ. No variances are to be in the body as it is shown in scripture that a variance in doctrine shows true believers from false believers.
There appears various themes in the discussion here which the detail is making confused.
Jesus came to change us. He came to deciple us to make us perfect.
As people we are always looking at trying to define how to get there and how to show we have arrived.
Jesus critized the pharisees for compromise, for claiming the moral authority of Gods law but failing to deliver its reality.
There must be a real sense in which if we claim to be mature in Jesus, we need to know what walking in perfection means and how the law defines this. Now the law we are refering to is the moral law, the law of precepts and ideas that frame what is righteous behaviour.
In a very real way we cannot claim we have arrived and live far from this moral law. For likewise to claim we have Gods heart in us, yet continue to choose to sin, is actually to say this heart is worthless.
Now for me this reality is in the world of motivations, emotions, and seeing Jesus in the middle driving our lives forward. Now if some want to say they see the benchmark of helping us see issues aright are the moral law, fine. If people want to emphasis grace and forgiveness, fine, but both have to be able to show progress in people.
I will put this in context. A man can meet a beautiful woman who they get on well with and could easily have an affair. But which is the leading of God? The old marriage was a mistake and God is calling them out of it (invent an excuse) or is faithfullness and acknowledging biology and putting it in its place is the reality of the gospel. How we feel over one issue is always balanced with other feelings and loyalties. For me the power is love and sacrifice, seeing commitments and honesty, not wishing for a dream of "heaven" here, but realising we reap what we sow in each other, no matter how it might appear on the surface. The moral law helps me get focus, grace helps me overcome my failures, and love empowers victory through the cross. So what am I? Walking in Gods perfection?
Jesus came to change us. He came to deciple us to make us perfect.
As people we are always looking at trying to define how to get there and how to show we have arrived.
Jesus critized the pharisees for compromise, for claiming the moral authority of Gods law but failing to deliver its reality.
There must be a real sense in which if we claim to be mature in Jesus, we need to know what walking in perfection means and how the law defines this. Now the law we are refering to is the moral law, the law of precepts and ideas that frame what is righteous behaviour.
In a very real way we cannot claim we have arrived and live far from this moral law. For likewise to claim we have Gods heart in us, yet continue to choose to sin, is actually to say this heart is worthless.
Now for me this reality is in the world of motivations, emotions, and seeing Jesus in the middle driving our lives forward. Now if some want to say they see the benchmark of helping us see issues aright are the moral law, fine. If people want to emphasis grace and forgiveness, fine, but both have to be able to show progress in people.
I will put this in context. A man can meet a beautiful woman who they get on well with and could easily have an affair. But which is the leading of God? The old marriage was a mistake and God is calling them out of it (invent an excuse) or is faithfullness and acknowledging biology and putting it in its place is the reality of the gospel. How we feel over one issue is always balanced with other feelings and loyalties. For me the power is love and sacrifice, seeing commitments and honesty, not wishing for a dream of "heaven" here, but realising we reap what we sow in each other, no matter how it might appear on the surface. The moral law helps me get focus, grace helps me overcome my failures, and love empowers victory through the cross. So what am I? Walking in Gods perfection?
Again, not college! Seminary is master's degree. I guess your are as unteachable about this simple fact as everything else.
Ok, one more time.
God justifies. "Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
God sanctifies. - "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsto be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth." 2 Thess. 2:13
God glorifies - "And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:21
"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself." Phil. 3:20-21
Three stages in our Christian walk. All intiated and carried through by the Holy Spirit. There is no nonsense of being saved by God, having to walk on our own in the middle and maybe blowing it, then being glorified by God at the end.
God is in control of our salvic journey from start to finish!
The omission of righteous “Judgment” according to the law.
“For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” Mark 7:10-13
This is a case where people were dedicating a free-will offering with God, called Corban, which should have been used to help their parents. Free-will offerings were accepted according to the law, but not when it broke the 5th commandment to honour their Father and Mother.
“Honour thy father and thy mother” Exodus 20:12a
“Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee” Deuteronomy 5:16a
To show love and mercy to their parents and obedience to the proper judgment and mearcy, revealed in the law, should have been a much higher priority than a free-will offering defined in the law. The Pharisees were exalting relatively minor commandments, and ignoring the more important ones.
“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:24
“For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” Mark 7:10-13
This is a case where people were dedicating a free-will offering with God, called Corban, which should have been used to help their parents. Free-will offerings were accepted according to the law, but not when it broke the 5th commandment to honour their Father and Mother.
“Honour thy father and thy mother” Exodus 20:12a
“Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee” Deuteronomy 5:16a
To show love and mercy to their parents and obedience to the proper judgment and mearcy, revealed in the law, should have been a much higher priority than a free-will offering defined in the law. The Pharisees were exalting relatively minor commandments, and ignoring the more important ones.
“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:24
E
I honestly do not know how you can infer I do not consider or put lack of emphasis on doctrine from the that statement
Jesus is the Son of God...He is not doctrine
There is a distinction there that is significant and I had hoped to develop that further....again, you are READING INTO what I stated
Isn't it obvious to you that doctrine cannot possibly be what Jesus said would make us one?
If doctrine, ie mine is better than yours, is what makes believers one, then again, prepare to go down with the ship cause it's sinking fast
Of course doctrine is important!
So is clearly reading what another poster writes WITHOUT reading into it
It might occur to you that you are actually doing the very same thing with scripture that you are doing to posts in this thread
You are ADDING to what is written...I don't know why; that is something you might look into