Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.
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E
yeah yuh know...let's take a look at that
is there one thread in these forums that has not gone off track got back on track over and over?
do people go all ape fill in the blank over it?
no they don't
I started a thread on warnings about false prophets...low and behold, a couple showed up and tried very hard to take the thread over
I just kept plugging away like an old donkey because I knew what was going on...I didn't put them on ignore ...I was put on ignore by them!
frankly, I think false prophets are a true threat to the body and need to be shown as such...but nothing like that is going on here
just-me started mocking me and trying to make me out as someone who wants to fight and he was joined by peter...it's all right here in this thread
so what does one do? cry? no...remain calm, understand what is going on, and keep going
I have nothing to hide
is there one thread in these forums that has not gone off track got back on track over and over?
do people go all ape fill in the blank over it?
no they don't
I started a thread on warnings about false prophets...low and behold, a couple showed up and tried very hard to take the thread over
I just kept plugging away like an old donkey because I knew what was going on...I didn't put them on ignore ...I was put on ignore by them!
frankly, I think false prophets are a true threat to the body and need to be shown as such...but nothing like that is going on here
just-me started mocking me and trying to make me out as someone who wants to fight and he was joined by peter...it's all right here in this thread
so what does one do? cry? no...remain calm, understand what is going on, and keep going
I have nothing to hide
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E
I would like to say...oh wait, someone already said it!
These were laws that non-believing Jews believed all gentiles should live under. So James was setting operational guidelines for non-Jewish believers so that they wouldn't offend non-believing Jews, which could have possibly created problems for them (they had to study in the synagogues), or alienated the non-believers from the faith.
These were laws that non-believing Jews believed all gentiles should live under. So James was setting operational guidelines for non-Jewish believers so that they wouldn't offend non-believing Jews, which could have possibly created problems for them (they had to study in the synagogues), or alienated the non-believers from the faith.
B
Yes and???? I am unclear on your point??? Are you suggesting born again children of God are free to partake in sacrifice to idols, blood and things strangled and fornicate a will? I don't think so... but I am unclear regarding the point. I have a headache... maybe it is just my comprehension is lacking right now... I dunno?
[SUP]"[/SUP]Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deuteronomy 7:12-13
In reference to the op.http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ic-pharisees-didnt-recognize.html#post2302221
First, God is good for His word. He will never back up on His promises. The hypocrites didn't keep His judgments on purpose. God has a condition for keeping covenant with us, and that is if we hearken (intellectually hear) His Judgments. If we desire to hear Him, He will bless us.
If not, Jesus will remind us, as He did the Pharisees, that the judgments of God are being neglected, and we must needs repent for this omission.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23
In reference to the op.http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ic-pharisees-didnt-recognize.html#post2302221
Please do your best not to derail or cause conflict. I present this strictly for edification sake.Let us converse in a respectful and peaceful manner as our Almighty God, through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have us to do. 
If not, Jesus will remind us, as He did the Pharisees, that the judgments of God are being neglected, and we must needs repent for this omission.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23
100% correct, no point has really been made, but it looks like it has. You can read in what you like and go away pleased you have been agreed with. Muhammed used this technique all the time, it is a mirage of an answer, creates little controversy but appears to be sound.
Then I read what HeRoseFromtheDead wrote, pure heresy. None of the apostles agreed with anything connected with idols etc. except food is food, no matter who someone has said it is dedicated towards. It does not mean idol worship is ok, this is actual sin, in a massive way, but it is taken here as ok.
So this is 100% why half statements, open ended conclusions are worse than miss-leading they are just wrong.
But if the author cared about this at all, they would make things clear, but that is not the intent to any degree, so for me this is completely false and not of the Lord in a big way. So my heart is grieved and I conclude spiritual reality is not the objective but another agenda.
Then I read what HeRoseFromtheDead wrote, pure heresy. None of the apostles agreed with anything connected with idols etc. except food is food, no matter who someone has said it is dedicated towards. It does not mean idol worship is ok, this is actual sin, in a massive way, but it is taken here as ok.
So this is 100% why half statements, open ended conclusions are worse than miss-leading they are just wrong.
But if the author cared about this at all, they would make things clear, but that is not the intent to any degree, so for me this is completely false and not of the Lord in a big way. So my heart is grieved and I conclude spiritual reality is not the objective but another agenda.
lol I wonder who you are. My comments were not directed at you at all, they were commenting on the implication of what you wrote. Maybe you did not mean the words as I understood them.
The christian "community" is a broad church, and it looks like it might become broader still.
But the core essentials are still the same. If you cannot understand my point, or the difference between a conservative christian in the traditional sense of the word, and a liberal open to any spiritual influence christian, then the words are lost on you. What we have today is the NAR and what passes for open heaven assemblies is not the faith I know and love.
It is not I reject something added to the faith, it is a different faith but similar words. When I came to the Lord, it was a personal enlightenment of my failure as a human to understand what love and life was, rather I just fitted in and survived with my society. Across the world there are people like me, called into the Kingdom, preaching the power of the love of Jesus, yet this is not what I see often, in fact I was mocked as being a victorian form of faith that had been superceeded.
This is a lie of the enemy, because you cannot superceed love without not worshiping the creator who is love itself.
Now if this does not make sense to you, we are on different sides of the street, and I wish you well. I am just shinning a light on the spiritual realities.
The christian "community" is a broad church, and it looks like it might become broader still.
But the core essentials are still the same. If you cannot understand my point, or the difference between a conservative christian in the traditional sense of the word, and a liberal open to any spiritual influence christian, then the words are lost on you. What we have today is the NAR and what passes for open heaven assemblies is not the faith I know and love.
It is not I reject something added to the faith, it is a different faith but similar words. When I came to the Lord, it was a personal enlightenment of my failure as a human to understand what love and life was, rather I just fitted in and survived with my society. Across the world there are people like me, called into the Kingdom, preaching the power of the love of Jesus, yet this is not what I see often, in fact I was mocked as being a victorian form of faith that had been superceeded.
This is a lie of the enemy, because you cannot superceed love without not worshiping the creator who is love itself.
Now if this does not make sense to you, we are on different sides of the street, and I wish you well. I am just shinning a light on the spiritual realities.
OK, I'll assume this was directed at me implying that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I figured out what I explained from just reading Acts 15 and knowing what the Noahide Laws were. I was going to lay everything out for you, but I don't have to now because somebody else put it on Wikipedia. I didn't know that it was in the Jewish Encyclopedia. Please read the article so you can fully understand.
Seven_Laws_of_Noah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
I figured out what I explained from just reading Acts 15 and knowing what the Noahide Laws were. I was going to lay everything out for you, but I don't have to now because somebody else put it on Wikipedia. I didn't know that it was in the Jewish Encyclopedia. Please read the article so you can fully understand.
Seven_Laws_of_Noah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
Ok. Acts 15 is clear. A gentile does not have to be a jew to be a christian. But the principles behind the law still need to be followed. There was a two step logical statement.
1. Sacrificing food to idols is ok or is it not.
Your comment apart from fornication everything else is permitted.
The implication is sacrificing food to idols is ok. This is the problem with statements like everything else is permitted. This is simply not true and leads to confusion. But I am sure this confusion is not a problem to you or you would have spotted it.
In south america animist religions have mixed with versions of christianity so idol worship is ok. Now acts 15 clearly bans this practice. Now you could just be tired and missed the point but I doubt it, knowing the company you are agreeing to.
1. Sacrificing food to idols is ok or is it not.
Your comment apart from fornication everything else is permitted.
The implication is sacrificing food to idols is ok. This is the problem with statements like everything else is permitted. This is simply not true and leads to confusion. But I am sure this confusion is not a problem to you or you would have spotted it.
In south america animist religions have mixed with versions of christianity so idol worship is ok. Now acts 15 clearly bans this practice. Now you could just be tired and missed the point but I doubt it, knowing the company you are agreeing to.
E
I have never been rude to you and you may think the following is me being rude. However, you would be wrong because if I was as rude as some folks who know me in person I can actually be, they would tell you to hide...but I reserve those expressions for those closest to me in a 3rd party application which usually engenders nervous laughter and relief I was not talking to them personally. ie: I was giving my opinion on those who use crystal balls and Dr. Seuss to try and convince the tv viewing audience that what they report is not just opinion but may have, in fact, actually happened in a land far far away
everything is engineered and most folks are mutating to believe that it isn't BOO!
here it is:
NO. It means you have the freedom as a thinking, cognizant, intellectually sufficient (I'm hopeful) human being to realize you are looking for a tussle with someone but you don't really want to press those buttons cause I already whupped a few seat hugging parts of the anatomy today
sorry about your headache...take two aspirins and stop the fake guessing at what someone is saying when you actually want to throw gas on the fire
I dunno...I heard bufferin works too but I don't get headaches
everything is engineered and most folks are mutating to believe that it isn't BOO!
here it is:
NO. It means you have the freedom as a thinking, cognizant, intellectually sufficient (I'm hopeful) human being to realize you are looking for a tussle with someone but you don't really want to press those buttons cause I already whupped a few seat hugging parts of the anatomy today
sorry about your headache...take two aspirins and stop the fake guessing at what someone is saying when you actually want to throw gas on the fire
I dunno...I heard bufferin works too but I don't get headaches
Sacrificing food to idols is not OK, but that's not what I meant. I meant that if a person has the faith, (s)he can eat whatever they want, sacrificed to idols (by someone else) or not. I appeal to 1 Corinthians 8 and Jesus' statement that nothing entering the body can defile it to make my point.
In my prior statement I didn't even conceive of gentile believers sacrificing to idols, and I don't think that is what the Acts 15 ruling was about. Food sacrificed to idols during common meals in worker guilds was common in that day. So food sacrificed to idols was very much a part of the culture. The Acts 15 ruling simply says, IMO, that the gentile believers would do well if they avoided such in order to not offend their Jewish hosts in the synagogue.
In my prior statement I didn't even conceive of gentile believers sacrificing to idols, and I don't think that is what the Acts 15 ruling was about. Food sacrificed to idols during common meals in worker guilds was common in that day. So food sacrificed to idols was very much a part of the culture. The Acts 15 ruling simply says, IMO, that the gentile believers would do well if they avoided such in order to not offend their Jewish hosts in the synagogue.
Lol. You have failed to answer the question as to what you believe is wrong with following righteousness and love.
I did not ask you about your interest or ask your permission to comment on your contributions. I asked you about clarifying what you were arguing about, because it appeared unclear. I do thank you for trying to answer, but it actually was no answer at all. It involved a 100% deniability.
When Jesus was in this kind of situation, he always provided a suitable answer. Peter encouraged us likewise
"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." 1 Peter 3:15
I in likewise manner I expect the mature in the Lord, who claim authority and wisdom, to explain what they mean, especially as you are challenging the very foundational beliefs of christian brothers and sisters in the Lord.
So I stand daily before the throne of grace, with my heart open, listening to the Holy Spirit and His words of love and righteousness, being called to defend this faith and speak the truth. So I ask, to judge another believer of sin and heresy is a big accusation, but to then say nothing, is not understanding the slander such words mean and the camp you place yourself in. For we will all have to give account before His throne of grace, for every word.
I know why I believe what I do, and share it openly and will discuss the issues with anyone. I expect those who walk in the light to be able to do likewise, especially those who have problems with fellow believers. But I only expect slander and accusation without foundation from the enemies of Christ. So I am confused by your behaviour and lack of clarity.
You appear to be a believer yet behave as if you are not.
I did not ask you about your interest or ask your permission to comment on your contributions. I asked you about clarifying what you were arguing about, because it appeared unclear. I do thank you for trying to answer, but it actually was no answer at all. It involved a 100% deniability.
When Jesus was in this kind of situation, he always provided a suitable answer. Peter encouraged us likewise
"But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." 1 Peter 3:15
I in likewise manner I expect the mature in the Lord, who claim authority and wisdom, to explain what they mean, especially as you are challenging the very foundational beliefs of christian brothers and sisters in the Lord.
So I stand daily before the throne of grace, with my heart open, listening to the Holy Spirit and His words of love and righteousness, being called to defend this faith and speak the truth. So I ask, to judge another believer of sin and heresy is a big accusation, but to then say nothing, is not understanding the slander such words mean and the camp you place yourself in. For we will all have to give account before His throne of grace, for every word.
I know why I believe what I do, and share it openly and will discuss the issues with anyone. I expect those who walk in the light to be able to do likewise, especially those who have problems with fellow believers. But I only expect slander and accusation without foundation from the enemies of Christ. So I am confused by your behaviour and lack of clarity.
You appear to be a believer yet behave as if you are not.
In all honesty, from the bottom of my heart, I can only know what you mean by reflecting back a logical conclusion.
It can be brutal, which I do apologise for, but it also helps clarify intentions. I do exactly the same thing as you did, in my mind answer one point but leave about 20 open. It can get difficult, but I have learnt the hard way until you ask the question back you do not know.
The problem with a subject like sin and grace, is people have gone adversarial, and start to call the other side enemies. What makes it worse is sometimes this is actually true. To those who are not invested in love and Jesus, all they care about is there position and hang the rest. This often comes out because people are not interested in clarity and empathy but provocation and slander. I hope everyone can practice forgiveness and grace, because I know I continually need this to make it through the day.
It can be brutal, which I do apologise for, but it also helps clarify intentions. I do exactly the same thing as you did, in my mind answer one point but leave about 20 open. It can get difficult, but I have learnt the hard way until you ask the question back you do not know.
The problem with a subject like sin and grace, is people have gone adversarial, and start to call the other side enemies. What makes it worse is sometimes this is actually true. To those who are not invested in love and Jesus, all they care about is there position and hang the rest. This often comes out because people are not interested in clarity and empathy but provocation and slander. I hope everyone can practice forgiveness and grace, because I know I continually need this to make it through the day.
If I met you face to face it would make no difference. How does your emotional issues have any bearing on theology or truth?
You obviously feel your emotional expression intimidates and gets things done. This is simply not the Lords way of handling things. Your interpretation of intentions and one sided interactions can create self fullfilled prophecy, where you actually create the response you then rebuke as proving they are really out to get you with lies and fabrications.
It is a type of manipulation and tyranny of people, which is so ingrained it must be true because no one has ever stood up to me and survived. Do the words brokenness, meekness, humbleness, a contrite heart mean anything I wonder?
That was Jesus before Pilate. That was Peter before Jesus on the beach.
I have read of many of the NAR fellowships, the shepherding groups similarly have emotional bullies who run them. I have read testimonies of interogation sessions where emotional denegration and attacks are used to make theological points and assert authority where there is none. But in the Kingdom it does not work, because it is not the way of love, but the way of the flesh. If you cannot see this, there is little point saying more, because it comes from humbleness at the foot of the cross. I say these things for those who wonder how such an emotional situation can come about in the body of Christ.
It does because of unbelief and rebellion, plain and simple.
You obviously feel your emotional expression intimidates and gets things done. This is simply not the Lords way of handling things. Your interpretation of intentions and one sided interactions can create self fullfilled prophecy, where you actually create the response you then rebuke as proving they are really out to get you with lies and fabrications.
It is a type of manipulation and tyranny of people, which is so ingrained it must be true because no one has ever stood up to me and survived. Do the words brokenness, meekness, humbleness, a contrite heart mean anything I wonder?
That was Jesus before Pilate. That was Peter before Jesus on the beach.
I have read of many of the NAR fellowships, the shepherding groups similarly have emotional bullies who run them. I have read testimonies of interogation sessions where emotional denegration and attacks are used to make theological points and assert authority where there is none. But in the Kingdom it does not work, because it is not the way of love, but the way of the flesh. If you cannot see this, there is little point saying more, because it comes from humbleness at the foot of the cross. I say these things for those who wonder how such an emotional situation can come about in the body of Christ.
It does because of unbelief and rebellion, plain and simple.