Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[BarlyGurl]

I have never been rude to you and you may think the following is me being rude. However, you would be wrong because if I was as rude as some folks who know me in person I can actually be, they would tell you to hide...but I reserve those expressions for those closest to me in a 3rd party application which usually engenders nervous laughter and relief I was not talking to them personally. ie: I was giving my opinion on those who use crystal balls and Dr. Seuss to try and convince the tv viewing audience that what they report is not just opinion but may have, in fact, actually happened in a land far far away

everything is engineered and most folks are mutating to believe that it isn't BOO!

here it is:

NO. It means you have the freedom as a thinking, cognizant, intellectually sufficient (I'm hopeful) human being to realize you are looking for a tussle with someone but you don't really want to press those buttons cause I already whupped a few seat hugging parts of the anatomy today

sorry about your headache...take two aspirins and stop the fake guessing at what someone is saying when you actually want to throw gas on the fire

I dunno...I heard bufferin works too but I don't get headaches

Good grief! I was not being rude... I was asking a question because I DID NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT! I usually do, so that particular post seemed ODD to me. Your response to my question that I have been somehow intending to be picking a fight is also a MISTAKE on your part regarding discernment... so thanks for the empathy about my headache... I am feeling better now... however... regarding your conduct/response... It seems like maybe YOU need to take a powder? Or a walk... or spend some time praying in the spirit or something... cuz this is not characteristic of the Ember I am accustomed to encountering.

 

[MarcR]

It seems to me that mutual respect is a necessary ingredient for persuasion to occur.

The giving of mutual respect does NOT guarantee that someone will be convinced; but a lack of respect, by any participant in a discussion, will almost guarantee that little or nothing is resolved.

 

[Karraster]

E.G manipulation doesn't work with me. just-me started this thread to share, and it has gotten bombarded with false accusations, twisting things to say something that wasn't even said, and so on. don't even act like you are the forum police, and you can keep derailing, with self righteousness.

I agree. It's non-stop. It does demonstrate the power of Almighty tho, cos it's during the seemingly worst of trainwrecked threads I see His spirit shine forth brightly in some of the most profoundly truth filled posts, imparting life to those who would hear it, embrace it. He has called us to be Holy as He is Holy, and has written on our hearts His desire for us/instructions/commandments.

Thanks brothers and sisters. Your words have been edifying.

 

[Karraster]

It seems to me that mutual respect is a necessary ingredient for persuasion to occur.

The giving of mutual respect does NOT guarantee that someone will be convinced; but a lack of respect, by any participant in a discussion, will almost guarantee that little or nothing is resolved.

"Mutual" is all too often not easily accomplished by only one of the parties. Now, thars the rub.

 

[Karraster]

Jesus and unity

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. John 17:20-23

The oneness from this passage is a level of communion I have not seen. Jesus is praying to the Father that this might happen. He is expressing his desire, not that it will actually be fulfilled or is possible.

He prays this when the deciples did not understand why he had to die, when they were about to flee for their lives etc. It has long been a mystery quite how this can be achieved, because we obviously are very far from this place.

It is obviously more than just beliefs, it is the way of an open relationship. But few great men of God have ever claimed them came close to fulfilling this. So maybe this will always stay a mystery.

It maybe just our sharing of love for Jesus and love for one another, we share as Jesus hoped, because we devalue this so easily, like a child devalues the love their parents have for them, especially in the teenage years.

Truly a blessing~

 

[ukok102nak]

PHARISSES ARE PEOPLE WHO COULDNT ADMIT THEIR FAILURES BECAUSED SOME OF THEM THINKS THEY WILL NOT COMMIT ANY SINS :rofl:
1 John: 1. 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[PeterJens]

But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.
Matt 15:18


Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.
John 7:38


A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
Luke 6:45


Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Tim 4:12


For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Matt 15:19


Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8


A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:34-35


In our hearts we have all the evil that has ever been on this earth. Given the right situation and our bad choices we can find ourselves lost and caught in sin.


It is only Gods love through Jesus that purifies us.


Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1


Those who label people pharisees unfortunately do not understand these words. The walk with the Lord is about holiness, purity, perfection. It is about transforming who we are into loving people who we want to be, but find it so hard. But Jesus says,


“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

I have tried to understand Embers post. I cannot construct something. The later ones convey an overview.
The gist seems to be those who read the bible and take moral principles seriously you are slaves to them.
A free thinker who has no morals is not in condemnation.

There is a third option here. A Holy Spirit driven believer fulfills the moral principles from their heart, because they are working on walking in purity and obedience. The law is an echo of where they have come from and a measure of the goal to where they are going. To those not empowered by love and the freedom of forgiveness, the law in any form just reminds them of their defeat, so their desire is to remove the law completely.

Without the law we have no measuring stick, and easily get lost, but with the law, we know our goal empowered by the cross and love which overcomes our failures. And the power within is? Love.

This is why Paul and the apostles continually opposed the ceremonial symbols of faith, like circumcision etc and emphasised pure holy living. If this condemns us in our hearts, we are to humble ourselves and repent, because Jesus says, in our weakness and humility he will lift us up, and deal with us as if we are righteous.

We know we are walking in the Kingdom because sin still causes us pain and we are wary of its consequences and temptations. But our focus is on love and life, the great positives of eternity.

 

[ukok102nak]

This are the words of of our lord christ Jesus told to those pharisees and scribes

Luke: 15. 2. And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying: This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
3. And he spoke to them this parable, saying:
4. What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it?
5. And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:
6. And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?
7. I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.
8. Or what woman having ten groats; if she lose one groat, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently until she find it?
9. And when she hath found it, call together her friends and neighbours, saying: Rejoice with me, because I have found the groat which I had lost.
10. So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.

Go bless us all my brothers and my sisters
my brethrens :smoke: and my fellows :happy:

Thanks be to God

 

[PeterJens]

A poster posted a justification of condemning righteousness based on Matt 7:21-11
This bugged me because it was such an obvious missquote, but is also very important

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The key issues Jesus says are
1) Doing the will of the Father
2) Doing good things

Those who will be rejected are those who did not do the will of the Father and are doing evil, sin.
What is the false things which were claimed as proof of Gods presence
1) Prophecy
2) Driving out demons
3) Performing miracles

And Jesus's rebuke. I had no relationship with you, you were doing evil. He is not condemning the spiritual authority, just the sin in peoples lives and their ignoring its significance.

Now a poster here claimed this verse was about people doing good works, which they were using to justify entry into heaven and so were rejected. Now ofcourse you cannot earn entry into heaven by good works, but these verses are not about that failure.

In fact the sermon on the mount says :-
In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matt 5:16

So we are to do good works, in public for all to see, demonstrating victory over sin and death through Jesus.

So rather than condemning good works, Jesus praises righteousness and those who hunger and thirst for heaven and condemns those who want a super spiritual show but no moral reality.

So brothers and sisters, if we are condemned for standing for righteousness and love, let us rejoice because so was Jesus, the deciples and the prophets, Amen.

 

[Brother_Don]

Micah 6:8-9, He hath shewed thee, oh man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with God? The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.

 

[ukok102nak]

This why our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ say all those words before he went to heaven and sitted at the right of
The lord god the father almighty who is good and who he cannot lie
1 Timothy: 4. 1. Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,
2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,
3. Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.
4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving:
5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

:smoke: Thank you very much for reading :happy:

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: As they say
The truth will set you free :happy:
Romans: 1. 19. Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.
21. Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
23. And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things.
24. Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would rather have had the accusers come to this point before I had to explain it this vividly.

The simple version is "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:9

Without complete context, this can be endorsed as "God's perfect law served its purpose in my past, and now has no place in a believer's life in Christ Jesus because we all are saved by grace and not the works of the law." This doctrine is true and false combined. (Balaam)

Your still wrong, And you still do not get it

You claim contention when it is you who is making the contention. I have been in CC Chat for a few years now. and I have NEVER heard anyone claim we are not under law because we have grace so I can live however I want. Your continued lies against those who disagree with you is what gets you into so much trouble. and what causes all of your threads to be challenged as they are.

The saying that the law has no place in a believers life ONLY because they are saved by Grace and law is WRONG, IN ERROR/ AND NOT PREACHED BY TRUE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST.

if your WHOLE basis and doctrine is based on a FALSE TRUTH, then your whole doctrine is but a lie!

The sad crux is 'to abolish God's pure law from ones life is to live without it.' What is purposefully omitted form our lives has zero effect to our lives. Therefore, that person is willfully minus God's perfect law, henceforth making them "lawless" to one degree or another, forcing themselves to follow their own doctrine of self works that appear outwardly as good. Matthew 23:13-29

And here we have religion at its finest. A person who does not have law WILL live in sin, because he has no guideline.

As has been told to this person over and over, How can a person who has TRUE FAITH IN CHRIST, has TRULY REPENTED, has TRULY BEEN LED TO THE MESSIAH by the law. think it is ok to sin? want to sin? Would want to go back to what they were?

Thats like saying the sign which says "danger, stay of the ice, may cause death" and the person ignores the "law" and walks on the ice anyway, He falls through, He can not get out of the water, and would die if someone did not risk their own lives to save them. and he is rescued (saved)

Now everyone be honest, and tell me. DOES THAT PERSON NEED A SIGN TO TELL THEM TO STAY OF THE ICE IN THE FUTURE?

Sign or no sign, that person is NOT GOING TO WALK ON THIN ICE AGAIN.

so WHY DO I NEED A LAW that tells me to stay of the ice or do not (insert whatever command you want) when I KNOW, AND HAD FAITH, DOING THOSE THINGS CAUSED MY DEATH IN THE FIRST PLACE?

But no. Thats to hard for just-me and her clan to answer or admit to. They need law. It makes them feel good. Well good for them. STOP TRYING TO PUSH PEOPLE INTO IT WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED BY IT!!

If a person truly has the indwelling Spirit of God, they will desire to see the spiritual aspects thereof. This is a conundrum for sure.

Romans 8:7

Anyone born of the spirit already understands the spiritual aspect of the law. That is what led them to christ in the first place. If they were still following the physical. they would be sacrificing animals getting circumcised, ad following all those traditional and ceremonial aspects of the law. And not moving on to what Jesus told us to do.

But again, Just me can;t see this.

This is certainly what the Pharisees missed due to an attitude of self works unto righteousness. One can seek self righteousness by distorting the spiritual truth of God's law, or one can do the same by rejecting the spiritual truth of God's law. The outcome is the same in either case. A true Pharisee views that perfect law of God only as regulations and nothing more.

Matthew 23:23

Yes they did miss the spiritual aspect. Thats why they could never get saved, they were to busy worried about the physical aspect. Thus they missed God and never got saved.

Yet you want us who have been saved, been trained by the spiritual aspect. to go back.. why??

"behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Corinthians 6:2b

so we need the law to be saved?? Which is it?? You claim you do not teach this, so why would you post it in a post about following law?

Now we can clearly see why we have contentious threads such as this one, that dare to mention the law of God, and even if it isn't mentioned on other threads, yet assumed by some that the thread's subject might go there eventually............... "Kill it before it spreads" mentality prevails.

They need to be killed. Because you distort the law. Take it out of context. and want to force BORN AGAIN HOLY SPIRIT FILLED people to go back to the law. which LED THEM TO CHRIST in the first place. Which is AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.

Read my signature. After salvation, the perfect law of God isn't a threat to being secure in Christ. This security is defined as the "law of liberty."

Um, Mosaic law is not the law of liberty, it is the law of death,

The law of Christ is the law of liberty, It is freedom from the law of death.

 

[just-me]

[SUP]Leviticus 19:11-18
11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[PeterJens]

Um, Mosaic law is not the law of liberty, it is the law of death,
The law of Christ is the law of liberty, It is freedom from the law of death.

This is not true. Justification by the law is the law of death, justification by Jesus's sacrifice for sins is life.
We are set free from ceremonial law, dietry law, the law of ceremonies and festivals, but we still obey the moral law as fruit of love in our hearts and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus's promise was walking in perfection, justified by His blood.
How do you go from sinner to saint? By transformation of your heart through the application of love guided by Gods word.

As believers are we not all in agreement, we are to aim to be like Jesus.

What I find odd is when people cannot agree even to this level, which suggests they preach a different gospel.

 

[just-me]

EG,
If a true believer knows the law (God's law, not man's) before salvation, and after salvation remembers what they came to know, where would a saved person find "faith" that the law defines (and Jesus confirmed) which was recognized before salvation?

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[just-me]

This is not true. Justification by the law is the law of death, justification by Jesus's sacrifice for sins is life.
We are set free from ceremonial law, dietry law, the law of ceremonies and festivals, but we still obey the moral law as fruit of love in our hearts and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus's promise was walking in perfection, justified by His blood.
How do you go from sinner to saint? By transformation of your heart through the application of love guided by Gods word.

As believers are we not all in agreement, we are to aim to be like Jesus.

What I find odd is when people cannot agree even to this level, which suggests they preach a different gospel.

Salvation in Christ is a process. It must be recognized as such. We are not perfect when we begin our new life in Christ.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. Hebrews 6:1-3

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[ukok102nak]

Basically the holy scriptures acts as a guidance for us
in order for us to know if someone is telling the truth about
Our lord god who is good and who he cannot lie and to
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ who is our savior
From the wrath that is coming . ...

if someone says this are the goods from the village and they were counted as
Thousands, then let's proved it if its true or false
How? Let's count them one by one literally :smoke:

And if someone says I've seen a man who has a spirit of revealing that could see
The future, then try those spirits if it is evil or good
How? Ask that spirit when it will be (exact date and time)
its moment of his departing from that human body :rofl:

:scarf: we hope no one here would go upset about this
Little information we could share to all of you and
its everyone has the right
To believed or not to believed :yawn:

Go bless us all my brothers and my sisters
my breathrens :smoke: and my fellows :happy:
Always and forever

 

[gb9]

Salvation in Christ is a process. It must be recognized as such. We are not perfect when we begin our new life in Christ.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. Hebrews 6:1-3

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

this is a good and true post. now if you would stop here and not try to drag law into it .........................