Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[just-me]

Dear reader,

I have tried to understand Embers post. I cannot construct something. The later ones convey an overview.
The gist seems to be those who read the bible and take moral principles seriously you are slaves to them.
A free thinker who has no morals is not in condemnation.

There is a third option here. A Holy Spirit driven believer fulfills the moral principles from their heart, because they are working on walking in purity and obedience. The law is an echo of where they have come from and a measure of the goal to where they are going. To those not empowered by love and the freedom of forgiveness, the law in any form just reminds them of their defeat, so their desire is to remove the law completely.

Without the law we have no measuring stick, and easily get lost, but with the law, we know our goal empowered by the cross and love which overcomes our failures. And the power within is? Love.

This is why Paul and the apostles continually opposed the ceremonial symbols of faith, like circumcision etc and emphasised pure holy living. If this condemns us in our hearts, we are to humble ourselves and repent, because Jesus says, in our weakness and humility he will lift us up, and deal with us as if we are righteous.

We know we are walking in the Kingdom because sin still causes us pain and we are wary of its consequences and temptations. But our focus is on love and life, the great positives of eternity.

I would rather have had the accusers realize the following before I had to explain it this vividly.

The simple version is "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:9

Without complete context, this can be endorsed as "God's perfect law served its purpose in my past, and now has no place in a believer's life in Christ Jesus because we all are saved by grace and not the works of the law." This doctrine is true and false combined. (Balaam)

The sad crux is 'to abolish God's pure law from ones life is to live without it.' What is purposefully omitted form our lives has zero effect to our lives. Therefore, that person is willfully minus God's perfect law, henceforth making them "lawless" to one degree or another, forcing themselves to follow their own doctrine of self works that appear outwardly as good. Matthew 23:13-29

If a person truly has the indwelling Spirit of God, they will desire to see the spiritual aspects thereof. This is a conundrum for sure. Romans 8:7

This is certainly what the Pharisees missed due to an attitude of self works unto righteousness. One can seek self righteousness by distorting the spiritual truth of God's law, or one can do the same by rejecting the spiritual truth of God's law. The outcome is the same in either case. A true Pharisee views that perfect law of God only as regulations and nothing more. Matthew 23:23

"behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Corinthians 6:2b

Now we can clearly see why we have contentious threads such as this one, that dare to mention the law of God, and even if it isn't mentioned on other threads, yet assumed by some that the thread's subject might go there eventually............... "Kill it before it spreads" mentality prevails.

Read my signature. After salvation, the perfect law of God isn't a threat to being secure in Christ. This security is defined as the "law of liberty." It's the same law of God, not man's

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is not true. Justification by the law is the law of death, justification by Jesus's sacrifice for sins is life.
We are set free from ceremonial law, dietry law, the law of ceremonies and festivals, but we still obey the moral law as fruit of love in our hearts and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus's promise was walking in perfection, justified by His blood.
How do you go from sinner to saint? By transformation of your heart through the application of love guided by Gods word.

As believers are we not all in agreement, we are to aim to be like Jesus.

What I find odd is when people cannot agree even to this level, which suggests they preach a different gospel.

so your perfect.

Thats good to know. You have fulfilled the law. You have done what Only jesus has done.

Have fun with that bud.. Your belief is the reason we need to do as paul said, and walk away from the law. because it gives us no hope

you also do not know what liberty is or means.. It means I have liberty to make mistakes, and althoughh I will be punished and suffer for those mistakes. I still have grace to learn from those mistakes and move on

You my friend, have no liberty.

ps.. those other laws never were applicable to me anyway, I am not a jew. so to say the law if liberty was to be freed fromthem does not relate. For I was never UNDER THEM.

However, I did use them as a teaching aid, and they led me to Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation in Christ is a process.

There you go,

Salvation is not a one time event, it is a process.

If we do not finish this process.. Well what happens to us, can you answer that Just me? Do you Care to elaborate? or is this going to be one of the just many questions you refuse to answer?

 

[just-me]

this is a good and true post. now if you would stop here and not try to drag law into it .........................

If law is mentioned it is Jesus who drags the law into view, not me. That is clearly seen in the OP. I quoted, not wrote it. Follow His teaching and example. judgment, mercy, and faith that are revealed in His own Father's law.

 

[Brother_Don]

Proverbs 27:15, It is joy to the just to do judgement: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. To do judgement? is that the same as do justly, be merciful, and have faith(walking with God in humility)?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would rather have had the accusers realize the following before I had to explain it this vividly.

The simple version is "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:9

Without complete context, this can be endorsed as "God's perfect law served its purpose in my past, and now has no place in a believer's life in Christ Jesus because we all are saved by grace and not the works of the law." This doctrine is true and false combined. (Balaam)

The sad crux is 'to abolish God's pure law from ones life is to live without it.' What is purposefully omitted form our lives has zero effect to our lives. Therefore, that person is willfully minus God's perfect law, henceforth making them "lawless" to one degree or another, forcing themselves to follow their own doctrine of self works that appear outwardly as good. Matthew 23:13-29

If a person truly has the indwelling Spirit of God, they will desire to see the spiritual aspects thereof. This is a conundrum for sure. Romans 8:7

This is certainly what the Pharisees missed due to an attitude of self works unto righteousness. One can seek self righteousness by distorting the spiritual truth of God's law, or one can do the same by rejecting the spiritual truth of God's law. The outcome is the same in either case. A true Pharisee views that perfect law of God only as regulations and nothing more. Matthew 23:23

"behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Corinthians 6:2b

Now we can clearly see why we have contentious threads such as this one, that dare to mention the law of God, and even if it isn't mentioned on other threads, yet assumed by some that the thread's subject might go there eventually............... "Kill it before it spreads" mentality prevails.

Read my signature. After salvation, the perfect law of God isn't a threat to being secure in Christ. This security is defined as the "law of liberty." It's the same law of God, not man's

I guess you did not get the memo the first time, You think repeating it will make iny more true?

Originally Posted by just-me

I would rather have had the accusers come to this point before I had to explain it this vividly.

The simple version is "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:9

Without complete context, this can be endorsed as "God's perfect law served its purpose in my past, and now has no place in a believer's life in Christ Jesus because we all are saved by grace and not the works of the law." This doctrine is true and false combined. (Balaam)

Your still wrong, And you still do not get it

You claim contention when it is you who is making the contention. I have been in CC Chat for a few years now. and I have NEVER heard anyone claim we are not under law because we have grace so I can live however I want. Your continued lies against those who disagree with you is what gets you into so much trouble. and what causes all of your threads to be challenged as they are.

The saying that the law has no place in a believers life ONLY because they are saved by Grace and law is WRONG, IN ERROR/ AND NOT PREACHED BY TRUE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST.

if your WHOLE basis and doctrine is based on a FALSE TRUTH, then your whole doctrine is but a lie!

The sad crux is 'to abolish God's pure law from ones life is to live without it.' What is purposefully omitted form our lives has zero effect to our lives. Therefore, that person is willfully minus God's perfect law, henceforth making them "lawless" to one degree or another, forcing themselves to follow their own doctrine of self works that appear outwardly as good. Matthew 23:13-29

And here we have religion at its finest. A person who does not have law WILL live in sin, because he has no guideline.

As has been told to this person over and over, How can a person who has TRUE FAITH IN CHRIST, has TRULY REPENTED, has TRULY BEEN LED TO THE MESSIAH by the law. think it is ok to sin? want to sin? Would want to go back to what they were?

Thats like saying the sign which says "danger, stay of the ice, may cause death" and the person ignores the "law" and walks on the ice anyway, He falls through, He can not get out of the water, and would die if someone did not risk their own lives to save them. and he is rescued (saved)

Now everyone be honest, and tell me. DOES THAT PERSON NEED A SIGN TO TELL THEM TO STAY OF THE ICE IN THE FUTURE?

Sign or no sign, that person is NOT GOING TO WALK ON THIN ICE AGAIN.

so WHY DO I NEED A LAW that tells me to stay of the ice or do not (insert whatever command you want) when I KNOW, AND HAD FAITH, DOING THOSE THINGS CAUSED MY DEATH IN THE FIRST PLACE?

But no. Thats to hard for just-me and her clan to answer or admit to. They need law. It makes them feel good. Well good for them. STOP TRYING TO PUSH PEOPLE INTO IT WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED BY IT!!

If a person truly has the indwelling Spirit of God, they will desire to see the spiritual aspects thereof. This is a conundrum for sure.

Romans 8:7

Anyone born of the spirit already understands the spiritual aspect of the law. That is what led them to christ in the first place. If they were still following the physical. they would be sacrificing animals getting circumcised, ad following all those traditional and ceremonial aspects of the law. And not moving on to what Jesus told us to do.

But again, Just me can;t see this.

This is certainly what the Pharisees missed due to an attitude of self works unto righteousness. One can seek self righteousness by distorting the spiritual truth of God's law, or one can do the same by rejecting the spiritual truth of God's law. The outcome is the same in either case. A true Pharisee views that perfect law of God only as regulations and nothing more.

Matthew 23:23

Yes they did miss the spiritual aspect. Thats why they could never get saved, they were to busy worried about the physical aspect. Thus they missed God and never got saved.

Yet you want us who have been saved, been trained by the spiritual aspect. to go back.. why??

"behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." 2 Corinthians 6:2b

so we need the law to be saved?? Which is it?? You claim you do not teach this, so why would you post it in a post about following law?

Now we can clearly see why we have contentious threads such as this one, that dare to mention the law of God, and even if it isn't mentioned on other threads, yet assumed by some that the thread's subject might go there eventually............... "Kill it before it spreads" mentality prevails.

They need to be killed. Because you distort the law. Take it out of context. and want to force BORN AGAIN HOLY SPIRIT FILLED people to go back to the law. which LED THEM TO CHRIST in the first place. Which is AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.

Read my signature. After salvation, the perfect law of God isn't a threat to being secure in Christ. This security is defined as the "law of liberty."

Um, Mosaic law is not the law of liberty, it is the law of death,

The law of Christ is the law of liberty, It is freedom from the law of death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If law is mentioned it is Jesus who drags the law into view, not me. That is clearly seen in the OP. I quoted, not wrote it. Follow His teaching and example.

yet you scream of context. then DESTROY the context in your op..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Proverbs 27:15, It is joy to the just to do judgement: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. To do judgement? is that the same as do justly, be merciful, and have faith(walking with God in humility)?

I like how scripture shows that a person judges a person with their actions. People HATE those who are always good. who never do wrong, They hate us because we judge them with our action (we make them feel guilty, and they do not like that, thats also why they do nto like God and did not Like Christ)

 

[gb9]

If law is mentioned it is Jesus who drags the law into view, not me. That is clearly seen in the OP. I quoted, not wrote it. Follow His teaching and example. judgment, mercy, and faith that are revealed in His own Father's law.

see, got to got to got to have law. as e.g. said, you claim we are not saved by law, but you talk about it non-stop.

 

[ukok102nak]

:news: One thing for sure
PLEASE DONT LET THE EVIL THINGS
TRY TO PUT THOSE WORDS FROM OTHER LIPS :sisid:

Basically the holy scriptures acts as a guidance for us
in order for us to know if someone is telling the truth about
Our lord god who is good and who he cannot lie and to
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ who is our savior
From the wrath that is coming . ...

if someone says this are the goods from the village and they were counted as
Thousands, then let's proved it if its true or false
How? Let's count them one by one literally :smoke:

And if someone says I've seen a man who has a spirit of revealing that could see
The future, then try those spirits if it is evil or good
How? Ask that spirit when it will be (exact date and time)
its moment of his departing from that human body :rofl:

:scarf: we hope no one here would go upset about this
Little information we could share to all of you and
its everyone for anything that were been made
Knoweth this as someone told us this things before
"even the mightiest nor the weakest has the right"
To believed or not to believed :yawn:

Go bless us all my brothers and my sisters
my breathrens :smoke: and my fellows :happy:
Always and forever

 

[just-me]

The Word of God contains judgment, mercy, and faith revealed in the law, which is a substantial part of the Word. Jesus said so. Jesus is the complete Word. Why do some people demand to accept a fraction of the Word into their lives?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is not true. Justification by the law is the law of death, justification by Jesus's sacrifice for sins is life.

No, he's got it right. The law of Moses could only condemn. It was the ministry of death.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

see, got to got to got to have law. as e.g. said, you claim we are not saved by law, but you talk about it non-stop.

That's because law is their god.

 

[just-me]

see, got to got to got to have law. as e.g. said, you claim we are not saved by law, but you talk about it non-stop.

All of the word of God helps us to grow in God's grace through Christ Jesus. Acting out love doesn't save us either, but that's the fulfilling of the law. Put all of the word of God together as He intends us to do. If we are saved by grace, nothing that we do can bring salvation. Only Christ. Let us all judge righteously and accept all of God's word into out lives because of salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:31

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

 

[Brother_Don]

I like how scripture shows that a person judges a person with their actions. People HATE those who are always good. who never do wrong, They hate us because we judge them with our action (we make them feel guilty, and they do not like that, thats also why they do nto like God and did not Like Christ)

Their loss if they don't want the Word , the Word says what it says and means it.

 

[ukok102nak]

No, he's got it right. The law of Moses could only condemn. It was the ministry of death.

Some of those laws but not all of it :smoke:

 

[KennethC]

Good morning all !!!

Well I read through and see the thread is still derailed because people want to debate instead of discuss the OP.

The newest I see is the debating on Acts 15 and how this chapter has been completely misunderstood and the subject in it twisted to say something it doesn't. For this chapter has nothing to do with unbelievers !!!

You have the believing Jewish Apostles/disciples discussing on if the newly converted Gentile believers should have to follow the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

The out come was no that there was only 4 things we should keep following, and in verse Acts 15:28 it shows the Holy Spirit approved of this.

 

[just-me]

Let's all accept all of God's spoken words into our lives and esteem every part, and in so doing we will "glorify His name" that is defined in all of His Word. His word is everlasting, not temporary according to where we think we are in Him.

Deuteronomy 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Let's all accept all of God's spoken words into our lives and esteem every part, and in so doing we will "glorify His name" that is defined in all of His Word. His word is everlasting, not temporary according to where we think we are in Him.

In other words, let's subjugate the revealed will of GOD in the NT to the law of the old covenant.

No thanks.

 

[Brother_Don]

We was in their shoes once so , we show them mercy, as Jesus did us, and as Jesus had compassion forgive them Father they don't know what they are doing. But then we need to share how to walk justly, and humbly with God. When we walk humbly with God we show them mercy, but if we don't show how to live justly we are only sharing half truth.