Do angels have free will?

[purpose]

Matthew 25

31) " When the son of Man comes in his Glory, and all the holy angels with him, then He will Sit on the throne of his glory. 32) Before him he will be gathered all nations, and he will seperate them from one anotheras a shepherd seperates his sheep from the goats. 33) He will set the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.
Go to Verse 41)
" Then He will say to those at the left hand ( goats) , 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

? Thought this was interesting?

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 25

31) " When the son of Man comes in his Glory, and all the holy angels with him, then He will Sit on the throne of his glory. 32) Before him he will be gathered all nations, and he will seperate them from one anotheras a shepherd seperates his sheep from the goats. 33) He will set the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.
Go to Verse 41)
" Then He will say to those at the left hand ( goats) , 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

? Thought this was interesting?

It is all interesting...even the genealogies teach deep truth...many find them mundane and boring...study the names and their meaning....

 

[sassylady]

I believe they have free will. Cannot imagine seeing God face to face and deciding to rebel.

 

[atwhatcost]

Any biblical references?

I don't know. I lean toward at least some did, but it's hard to me to conceive of anyone willfully choosing to obey God perfectly constantly.

I do know there are no biblical references, but there aren't any biblical references to raspberries or chocolate, so we can't judge much about a thing if it's not referenced in the Bible sometimes.

 

[atwhatcost]

I would suggest in love not to listen to anybody who says free will is not mentioned in the bible, as there are many examples where God gives man the choice on who to serve as well.

Free will is a very biblical concept as God did not create any of us to be robots, or puppets on strings !!!

I would suggest that suggestion has nothing to do with love!

 

[atwhatcost]

The angels also worship God continually in heaven. I doubt if God created angelic beings like robots and then just "wound them up" to worship Him. He must be very pleased to have these angels freely choose to love and worship Him.

I love how when someone doesn't fully understand something, instead of trying to understand it they wait for someone to make it simple for them, and then use those simple terms as if anyone ever said that's what they believe.

Those of us who do not believe in free will also only believe in robots like the rest of people -- as modern constructs, or things of scifi stories, but nothing to do with the Bible or people's relationship with God. Nor do we believe in puppets any differently than the free willers do.

I get you might not believe what we believe, or, quite probably you simply don't understand what we believe, but stop making us out to be something in a scifi too. It's annoying and disparaging.

 

[atwhatcost]

I was actually thinking about this today, or recently. Is it possible for angels today to go against God? Why don't they? Is it because they have witnessed the goodness of God and truly believe that He is worthy of all worship? Are they so encapsulated in His love (and presence) that they have the fear of the Lord?

Are angels inside time and space? It seems as if they can't be if they are there to worship God and be his messengers. (Of course, they have to go into time and space to give messages, too.) So, outside of time and space was it really that long ago that one-third of the angels revolted? And, does that even make sense since I had to use "that long ago?"

God did create them, but what is it to be in God's presences eternally?

And if it is all our hearts are leaping over just thinking about, then how stupid were those one-thirds to leave? Granted, I'm none too bright, but I'm not face-to-face with God either.

 

[atwhatcost]

I think they have a form of free will but not as we think of free will. Silly example but a dog may have free will but it is not a man and can only exercise it's free will in the arena for which it is created. It cannot do the things a man can do free will or not. Humans and angles are a different species and class, possibly as different as the man and dog example.

Hebrews 1:13-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]13 [/SUP]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

This is something like what us Reformers believe. There is will. It is free, however it is only free to do as it will within its nature. We were in sin nature, therefore we willed freely to sin. Now born again, we are in God's supernature so can will to do his will, instead of freely sin.

 

[KennethC]

I would suggest that suggestion has nothing to do with love!

How do you figure that ???

Love for others means you tell them the truth from God's word not let them continue in false teachings, and the bible gives over 100 examples of free will throughout it from fallen angels that choose to leave heaven and follow satan to God given us the choice to choose life or death such as in Deuteronomy 30:15-20.

Also just like Apostle Paul said we can still choose to serve sin or serve His righteousness.....Romans 6:16

 

[atwhatcost]

in this short video you can watch Charles Spurgeon give Rick Warren a purpose-driven choke-slam:

[video=youtube;UseyIqmeTy4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UseyIqmeTy4[/video]

What does it say about me that I knew who the wrestlers and theologians were? lol

 

[atwhatcost]

How do you figure that ???

Love for others means you tell them the truth from God's word not let them continue in false teachings, and the bible gives over 100 examples of free will throughout it from fallen angels that choose to leave heaven and follow satan to God given us the choice to choose life or death such as in Deuteronomy 30:15-20.

Also just like Apostle Paul said we can still choose to serve sin or serve His righteousness.....Romans 6:16

First, this never was about man's free will. It was about angels.

Second, just because you believe something doesn't mean it's automatically God's truth.

We've had this debate before. You don't listen. At least stop having it on an unrelated topic AND stop thinking it's your duty to force everyone into believing exactly like you do. That's not loving. That's arrogance.

That's how I figure.

 

[KennethC]

First, this never was about man's free will. It was about angels.

Second, just because you believe something doesn't mean it's automatically God's truth.

We've had this debate before. You don't listen. At least stop having it on an unrelated topic AND stop thinking it's your duty to force everyone into believing exactly like you do. That's not loving. That's arrogance.

That's how I figure.

You are the one who came in attacking me and others who speak on the free will shown throughout the bible.

I see you saying all the time about yourself that you are not to bright, but then you come after others who are giving biblical truth just because it might go against what you have been taught.

Well sorry but the truth of it is that just because we are in a church does not mean the person behind the pulpit is preaching truthfully, which is why we are told by the Holy Spirit and Word of God we are to test those who give the word. Not just accept every whim they speak as if it is truth !!!

I use to do that of believe everything I was taught until I found out after hitting rock bottom how bad the doctrinal teachings in the churches are now days. Once saved always saved is one of the worst out there as it derived out of an apostate teaching that denies over half of what the bible says including that of falling away and departing from the faith !!!

 

[Joidevivre]

Originally Posted by Joidevivre

The angels also worship God continually in heaven. I doubt if God created angelic beings like robots and then just "wound them up" to worship Him. He must be very pleased to have these angels freely choose to love and worship Him.

I love how when someone doesn't fully understand something, instead of trying to understand it they wait for someone to make it simple for them, and then use those simple terms as if anyone ever said that's what they believe.

Those of us who do not believe in free will also only believe in robots like the rest of people -- as modern constructs, or things of scifi stories, but nothing to do with the Bible or people's relationship with God. Nor do we believe in puppets any differently than the free willers do.

I get you might not believe what we believe, or, quite probably you simply don't understand what we believe, but stop making us out to be something in a scifi too. It's annoying and disparaging.

Hey Lynn, I don't judge others, and do not like to be judged. What I posted was only my thoughts about the question. I didn't comment on anyone else's thoughts. They were totally mine.

The last thing on earth I would ever do is make out you (especially) to be something in a scifi. You are too wonderful for that.

 

[MarcR]

Thought so. I was listening to one of Rick Warren's podcast and was surprised when he said that angels have no free will :/

IMO, Rick Warren has said many things that Scripture does support. I believe there many people in public ministry whose teaching is more in agreement with Gods teaching. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Among the many sound teachers in public ministry, I suggest: Chuck Swindall, Charles Stanley, and John MacArthur.

 

[MarcR]

IMO, Rick Warren has said many things that Scripture does support. I believe there many people in public ministry whose teaching is more in agreement with Gods teaching. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Among the many sound teachers in public ministry, I suggest: Chuck Swindall, Charles Stanley, and John MacArthur.

correction: does support should read does not support!

 

[atwhatcost]

Originally Posted by Joidevivre

The angels also worship God continually in heaven. I doubt if God created angelic beings like robots and then just "wound them up" to worship Him. He must be very pleased to have these angels freely choose to love and worship Him.




Hey Lynn, I don't judge others, and do not like to be judged. What I posted was only my thoughts about the question. I didn't comment on anyone else's thoughts. They were totally mine.

The last thing on earth I would ever do is make out you (especially) to be something in a scifi. You are too wonderful for that.

(Ack, no idea what this will look like after I repost what you posted. Sorry about that. I don't know BBCode to fix it.)

The angels also worship God continually in heaven. I doubt if God created angelic beings like robots and then just "wound them up" to worship Him. He must be very pleased to have these angels freely choose to love and worship Him.

Trying to see if I misunderstood here. This is a mock given from many free-willers to Calvinists. (AKA Reformers, but I haven't reformed anyone. I haven't Calvined anyone too, but at least most get what that word means better. lol) It's saying that they think Calvinists assume God is working with robots instead of people and we are therefore only forced to come to God because we're his robots/puppets.

This isn't what you meant? If not, sorry. I jumped to a conclusion I shouldn't have jumped to.

If it was, I really was saying that one drives me nuts. Something like calling a Green Bay Packer fan (usually called Cheeseheads, but they gave themselves that name by wearing fake-cheese hats on their heads) Limburger breath. It takes something too far to mock. And, yes, I know you (especially you) don't mock, so I really just don't like the comparison that often comes because most don't get what we mean and... well everything else I said before.

 

[Joidevivre]

I never heard of what you were referring to. Live a sheltered life I think. No, I did not mean what you referred to. That thought about angels being wound up just jumped into my head (never heard the robot talk before). And I don't know much about Calvinist's beliefs either. Got too much to do in my own study of the bible.

I take your apology easily.

 

[BarlyGurl]

I think they have a form of free will but not as we think of free will. Silly example but a dog may have free will but it is not a man and can only exercise it's free will in the arena for which it is created. It cannot do the things a man can do free will or not. Humans and angles are a different species and class, possibly as different as the man and dog example.

Hebrews 1:13-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]13 [/SUP]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

that is a pretty simple analogy... and very good

 

[PeterJens]

Angels and free wil

If you stand before the King of Kings his authority and power are obvious. Why would you not conform?

Look at nature, everything is bounded by systems that choose one thing or another based on various criteria.
A tree grows to get nearer the sun and spread its leaves out so it can manufacture chemical energy and live.

The essence of the argument with Satan is represented in Job as to the question of the nature of righteousness. It appears God is saying, look here is an example of true righteousness, and Satan is arguing it is false, it is only there because of blessing. God appears to have created a universe which reflects his nature, but allows it to also be otherwise, to do evil.
The aim appears to be to echo back in love, that yes love works, appropriateness and righteousness is everything.

So to have a universe this way, you have to let the argument rage, and let everything have a sense of free will. If necessary you can just roll it all up and destroy it, you are the creator.

So yes angels have free will.

 

[Abing]

hmm, I never heard this, Thanks for the info. Just goes to show we should not just blindly follow anyone.

IMO, Rick Warren has said many things that Scripture does support. I believe there many people in public ministry whose teaching is more in agreement with Gods teaching. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Among the many sound teachers in public ministry, I suggest: Chuck Swindall, Charles Stanley, and John MacArthur.

I've downloaded his (Rick Warren) podcasts before cause I was curious. It's true, we can't really just blindly follow anyone. You know, I used to like Benny Hinn a lot, and listened to him lol, growing up as a Pentecostal. It's not that they're bad, I mean, if they were and they lead people to Christ, then I'd be worse. It's just that, the same Spirit living in them, lives in us too. I mean, they're teachers but the Holy Spirit also reveals things to us so, it's true, what Jesus said test the spirit. Right now, I just try to take out what I can from them - (I like Charles Stanley a lot I wish he was my grandpa, Andrew Wommack, Joyce Meyer, Terri Savelle and of course Joseph Prince - and read the bible for myself. At the end of the day, I can't really face God and tell Him "It's your minister's fault" lol.