The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

You are welcome, and that does make the most sense and how I thought it should read

PS you are a fast typer LOL

I took typing in school and at that time I typed 38 words per minute, do not know what I type now.

Anyway every since I upgraded to Windows 10 at times I will be logged in and when I hit the, "Post Quick Reply" button it says you do not have permission refresh page and log back in. It kicks me out for some reason !!!

 

[Utah]

Faith in Jesus is good enough for salvation!!!

You have said it, but you don't believe it.

 

[ember]

Again nobody is saying the bolded first half of your post !!!

Please move past this............................

Ken, in all fairness, some have said that and have insisted on it and it has been stated in this thread as well

it is one of the biggest bones of contention going round these parts

not saying you said this, but it has been trotted out over and over by some

 

[RickyZ]

James described works that demonstrate a true faith as feeding and sheltering a needy brother. Some here define those works as keeping the 10 commandments. What do you say?

in simple terms, one camp says you have to do works to get or keep salvation, the other camp ( which I am in ) say we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. that is the most simple answer I can give.

True statements: (ding ding ding!)

true faith as feeding and sheltering a needy brother

works as keeping the 10 commandments

we do good works BECAUSE we are saved

The false: (bzzzzzzz)

you have to do works to get or keep salvation

 

[Utah]

I think Jesus made the analogy first when he told the parable about the servants and what they did with the master's talents (Matthew 25:14-28).

Excellent point, Ricky, but it seems you're still banking (no pun intended) on good works. I thought you were a man who understood the fullness of God's grace.

 

[KennethC]

You have said it, but you don't believe it.

Yes I do believe it, I just don't follow the watered down version of faith being taught now days.

I believe in the type of faith our Lord Jesus Christ laid out for us to know what a true faith in Him looks like !!!

Ken, in all fairness, some have said that and have insisted on it and it has been stated in this thread as well

it is one of the biggest bones of contention going round these parts

not saying you said this, but it has been trotted out over and over by some

I would like to see where as I have not seen that said in over a month, unless a person who claims the other said this is reading more into what the person actually said. That is the only time I have seen that stated !!!

If one wants to make that claim and continue running with it they need to post proof instead of making the allegation, because I have seen that false claim laid on not only myself but on a few others that never said anything of the sort.

This is one of the reason's contentions are started in threads, people making claims instead of asking questions to find out the truth. Then some even if they do ask questions when given an answer they still reject what they were told !!!

 

[RickyZ]

Works have their place, as we will be judged and be rewarded/punished for them accordingly. But they have nothing to do with gaining or losing salvation. Salvation is not a reward or punishment thing.

 

[KennethC]

Excellent point, Ricky, but it seems you're still banking (no pun intended) on good works. I thought you were a man who understood the fullness of God's grace.

What happened to the servant He gave the 1 talent to ???

Did he get eternal life or did he get cast into outer darkness for being disobedient ???

 

[Utah]

Yes I do believe it, I just don't follow the watered down version of faith being taught now days.

I believe in the type of faith our Lord Jesus Christ laid out for us to know what a true faith in Him looks like !!!

Can we lose our salvation? Ever?

 

[KennethC]

Works have their place, as we will be judged and be rewarded/punished for them accordingly. But they have nothing to do with gaining or losing salvation. Salvation is not a reward or punishment thing.

Right, salvation is a promise that we receive by keeping the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apostle Paul as well as the others clearly states this !!!

 

[KennethC]

Can we lose our salvation? Ever?

The bible clearly states multiple times a person can walk away from that faith in the Lord, and the ending result is not eternal life unless they return to the Lord.

Sorry if you don't believe this but it is clearly stated in the Word of God !!!

 

[ember]

Yes I do believe it, I just don't follow the watered down version of faith being taught now days.

I believe in the type of faith our Lord Jesus Christ laid out for us to know what a true faith in Him looks like !!!







I would like to see where as I have not seen that said in over a month, unless a person who claims the other said this is reading more into what the person actually said. That is the only time I have seen that stated !!!

If one wants to make that claim and continue running with it they need to post proof instead of making the allegation, because I have seen that false claim laid on not only myself but on a few others that never said anything of the sort.

This is one of the reason's contentions are started in threads, people making claims instead of asking questions to find out the truth. Then some even if they do ask questions when given an answer they still reject what they were told !!!

Ken..re-read my post

I went OUT OF MY WAY to state I was not applying what I said to you

however, you are illustrating what goes on here...complete misunderstanding and then getting upset about it

calm down! you are only hurting yourself

Ken, in all fairness, some have said that and have insisted on it and it has been stated in this thread as well

it is one of the biggest bones of contention going round these parts

not saying you said this, but it has been trotted out over and over by some

 

[Utah]

The bible clearly states multiple times a person can walk away from that faith in the Lord, and the ending result is not eternal life unless they return to the Lord.

Sorry if you don't believe this but it is clearly stated in the Word of God !!!

Don't put words in my mouth; I'm not talking about walking away from having faith; I'm talking about works. Can we lose our salvation for not performing enough works?

 

[ember]

yeah...I'm loosing interest here....people are talking at each other...not to each other

 

[Shoshanah]

This is a type of quiz just for the sake of "investigation edification."
We all know love is the fulfilling of the law of God.

There are three other things in God's law, in addition to the love commandments, that Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that they missed due to their self righteous smug attitude. Because of missing those things, this was one thing of several that Jesus called them out on, identifying them as hypocrites. (pretenders)

What are those 3 things that Jesus defined (scripture quoting Jesus), and where can we find them in the Old Covenant law that God gave to Israel via Moses?

Spiritual understanding is necessary, and there is more than one way to approach the true answer on this matter.

Please do your best not to derail or cause conflict. I present this strictly for edification sake.
Let us converse in a respectful and peaceful manner as our Almighty God, through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have us to do.

May God bless us with further understanding of each other, and of God's holy word, as His truth impacts us to the very core of our heart, soul, and mind.

This seems to be where all this controversy began. I haven't seen this really defined as of yet. What say all?

PS: The three things Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees were justice, mercy and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23).

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[RickyZ]

people are talking at each other...not to each other

Unfortunately discussion requires two participants. One who speaks and one who listens, in both directions. You can talk to someone when they are willing to listen. You talk at them when they close their ears to your words. And that is indeed a problem here, too many open mouths and too few open ears.

 

[zzz98]

in simple terms, one camp says you have to do works to get or keep salvation, the other camp ( which I am in ) say we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. that is the most simple answer I can give.

I agree, though some think any move you make is a work and they won't have anything to do with works

 

[ember]

Ken...HERE is a thread that is a fine example of what I stated

it's an older thread, but has been re-activated

from the op:

I often see this battle between the two sides concerning works of the law vs. works of faith.
I have found that those who believe in salvation by faith alone, do not seem to be able to comprehend the difference between the two kinds of works. In fact, I have yet to see them understand what works of faith really is or how it works.

That type of presentation is also in this thread

Here is sample from Jaume

Do as Jesus teaches and what He did.......... Why argue grace without law?How do others not see that Jesus teaches the law with grace?

Blind, deaf and dumb. Stop arguing when it is there in front of our face. Do not defy the Lord's teaching, and do not call profane what is holy.

Stay on topic.

calling folks who disagree with you blind, deaf and dumb does nothing but stir up strife and the author appears to fancy themself above others...in fact he came here to teach...not discuss it would seem

anyway, this table is set with very sharp knives and some are sitting with knives sticking out of them and others are gnawing on bones and wiping grease on someone elses robe

that's how I see it

compromise? well not with what is true but the theme here is two

1. What is truth

2. I'll tell you what truth is

meantime, it's a 3 ring circus and I'm not saying stop...I am saying LISTEN

 

[Billyd]

Kenneth, et. al. Your are confusing salvation with fellowship. When we sin, we break our fellowship with the one that we sin against. When our fellowship is broken, we suffer the consequences of that broken fellowship. When we seek forgiveness, we restore that fellowship.

None of the scriptures that have been presented indicate that one has lost his salvation, and must do anything to restore it.

I think it is time that everyone here ask God to restore his fellowship, drop the eternal security debate, and take the afternoon and enjoy the blessings of our salvation. I'll see you all tomorrow, but not on this thread.

 

[KennethC]

Ken..re-read my post

I went OUT OF MY WAY to state I was not applying what I said to you

however, you are illustrating what goes on here...complete misunderstanding and then getting upset about it

calm down! you are only hurting yourself

I never said you have said this about me, but others have, as that is the point I was making.

I nowhere stated that you made this allegation on me, as I was just asking for proof because I have seen some make this blanket allegation on others when they said nothing of the sort.

Even the bible says proof needs to be established in order to make a call on another, else wise it is just a false allegation.

I am calm and no I am not hurting nothing as I am very patient !!!