Here it comes the mark of the beast

[KennethC]

Then we agree to disagree. You're not paying attention to the literal scripture, which says:

"The seven heads you saw are seven hills upon which the woman sits."

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. It is meant to point us to her pagan headquarters, the Vatican.

"The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth"

At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. which is meant to point us to her pagan system.

The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:

She was glittering with gold

God leaves clues throughout Revelation and the above is one of them. They are meant to point us to who the woman is. She is Rome with her Mystery Babylon system. I've studied this for over 40 years, I know what I am talking about.



The reference to the beast coming up out of the sea and the second beast coming up out of the earth are not literal. That is, the second beast is not literally coming up out of the earth and therefore, your application to him being the beast who comes up out of the Abyss is unfounded. The main character is the first beast and the second beast is doing everything for the first beasts authenticity as being God or anything that is called God or worshiped. The first beast is the one who comes up out of the Abyss, he is that eighth king and he is also the one who receives the fatal wound.

Rome or Vatican are not the antichrist/man of sin/1st beast or his system.

Rome is not the only place that sits on 7 hills, and also Rome does not sit in a desert region as Babylon does. Third Rome is completely the wrong direction from Israel from where the bible says the man of sin will arise.

For he is called the prince of the north and the bible in OT and NT prophecy alludes and speaks on Turkey, and as for Babylon all the descriptions you have spoken on from the bible fit Mecca of Saudi Arabia as well.

Isaiah 21 clearly has Babylon and Saudi Arabia mentioned together in destruction !!!

 

[saintandrew4life]

The mark of the beast is coming.
donot take the mark of the beast.
to take the mark would mean you have turned away from god

 

[Miri]

A lighter moment - I knew someone a few years ago who refused to buy
anything priced at £9.99 because upside down it read 66.6

Honest you couldn't make that one up! LOL

 

[DP]

Rome or Vatican are not the antichrist/man of sin/1st beast or his system.

Rome is not the only place that sits on 7 hills, and also Rome does not sit in a desert region as Babylon does. Third Rome is completely the wrong direction from Israel from where the bible says the man of sin will arise.

For he is called the prince of the north and the bible in OT and NT prophecy alludes and speaks on Turkey, and as for Babylon all the descriptions you have spoken on from the bible fit Mecca of Saudi Arabia as well.

Isaiah 21 clearly has Babylon and Saudi Arabia mentioned together in destruction !!!

Yeah but...

Jerusalem is where Jesus showed the pseudochristos of Matt.24:23-26 will come. He also showed us in Rev.11:1-2 a standing temple during the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, with the two witnesses appearing in Jerusalem and being killed there.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

Rome or Vatican are not the antichrist/man of sin/1st beast or his system.

Rome is not the only place that sits on 7 hills, and also Rome does not sit in a desert region as Babylon does. Third Rome is completely the wrong direction from Israel from where the bible says the man of sin will arise.

For he is called the prince of the north and the bible in OT and NT prophecy alludes and speaks on Turkey, and as for Babylon all the descriptions you have spoken on from the bible fit Mecca of Saudi Arabia as well.

Isaiah 21 clearly has Babylon and Saudi Arabia mentioned together in destruction !!!

I'm not disagreeing with you neccessarily, but thought it worth pointing out that the Roman Catholic church itself claims the title of babylon. Its actually one of the arguments used to support Peter being in Rome and starting the tradition of apostolic succession and popery, thereby legitimizing the Church. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"St. Peter's First Epistle was written almost undoubtedly from Rome, since the salutation at the end reads: "The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark" (5:13). Babylon must here be identified with the Roman capital; since Babylon on the Euphrates, which lay in ruins, or New Babylon (Seleucia) on the Tigris, or the Egyptian Babylon near Memphis, or Jerusalem cannot be meant, the reference must be to Rome, the only city which is called Babylon elsewhere in ancient Christian literature (Revelation 17:5; 18:10; "Oracula Sibyl.", V, verses 143 and 159, ed. Geffcken, Leipzig, 1902, 111)"

I found it quite hillarious that the Catholic Encyclopedia quotes revelation 17:5 as a source for itself being Babylon. You can't make this stuff up, lol.


Source material: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11744a.htm

 

[Blain]

You know the mark is obviously going to be a physical mark as you can only buy and sell with it but also I think it could be more than that because once you take it you can no longer be saved so maybe it also has a spiritual mark with it or maybe it does something to us physically?

 

[PeterJens]

Implanted chip technology is meaningless. We carry cards that can more easily be changed and updated than implanted chips. An implanted chip is no more secure than a chip in a card and more difficult to setup and use for multiple reasons.

The mark of the beast is about loyalty to the enemy, which is something people face everyday somewhere in the world especially in places like Syria and Iraq under IS.

 

[stonesoffire]

Some here have posted the symbols of Islam. I agree.

Mark is the character of one. In the hand, works. And the head, thoughts.

If Islam takes over the world system, which is their purpose, no one will be able to buy or sell unless they swear allegiance to
allah.

 

[stonesoffire]

666- a trinity of man. Body, soul, spirit. The nature of the beast?

 

[tanach]

Yeah, you stick it on your forehead.

No thanks!! I reckon I already have a cheapo Celeron chip inside my head already' It may even be the windows 3.1 variety.

 

[tanach]

A lighter moment - I knew someone a few years ago who refused to buy
anything priced at £9.99 because upside down it read 66.6

Honest you couldn't make that one up! LOL

Love it! I wonder what would happen if they were asked for £9.99 at a supermarket. Leave something behind or buy something more?

 

[Miri]

Love it! I wonder what would happen if they were asked for £9.99 at a supermarket. Leave something behind or buy something more?

Maybe they would refuse the 1p change!

 

[KennethC]

I'm not disagreeing with you neccessarily, but thought it worth pointing out that the Roman Catholic church itself claims the title of babylon. Its actually one of the arguments used to support Peter being in Rome and starting the tradition of apostolic succession and popery, thereby legitimizing the Church. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"St. Peter's First Epistle was written almost undoubtedly from Rome, since the salutation at the end reads: "The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark" (5:13). Babylon must here be identified with the Roman capital; since Babylon on the Euphrates, which lay in ruins, or New Babylon (Seleucia) on the Tigris, or the Egyptian Babylon near Memphis, or Jerusalem cannot be meant, the reference must be to Rome, the only city which is called Babylon elsewhere in ancient Christian literature (Revelation 17:5; 18:10; "Oracula Sibyl.", V, verses 143 and 159, ed. Geffcken, Leipzig, 1902, 111)"

I found it quite hillarious that the Catholic Encyclopedia quotes revelation 17:5 as a source for itself being Babylon. You can't make this stuff up, lol.


Source material: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11744a.htm

Do not believe everything you read as I was in the Catholic church for 5 years and took their RCIA classes, and nowhere do they consider themselves Babylon. A Pope being the false prophet now that is another issue !!!

 

[KennethC]

Yeah but...

Jerusalem is where Jesus showed the pseudochristos of Matt.24:23-26 will come. He also showed us in Rev.11:1-2 a standing temple during the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, with the two witnesses appearing in Jerusalem and being killed there.

These passages do not say they antichrist comes from Jerusalem, as Matthew 24:23-26 is talking about false people claiming to be Christ all over the world. Do not believe them because we will all see Him at once when He returns !!!

Revelation 11:1-2 is about another temple but is not saying the antichrist is responsible for it, as scripture clearly shows after he invades Israel and enters Jerusalem he enters into the temple and claims to be God.

 

[DP]

These passages do not say they antichrist comes from Jerusalem, as Matthew 24:23-26 is talking about false people claiming to be Christ all over the world. Do not believe them because we will all see Him at once when He returns !!!

Revelation 11:1-2 is about another temple but is not saying the antichrist is responsible for it, as scripture clearly shows after he invades Israel and enters Jerusalem he enters into the temple and claims to be God.

I realize the KJV translators rendered Greek pseudochristos as "false Christs", but the meaning is actually about a singular one, 'a pseudo Christ'. Greek 'Christos' is singular for the word Christ in the Greek.

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

This is why Bible scholars like Dr. James Strong rendered the definition of "false Christs" also as 'a spurious Messiah' (from 5547).

In 2 Cor.11 Paul warned us about the "another Jesus".

In 2 Thess.2:4 Paul was speaking of a specific false one, not many.

In Rev.13:11 about the "another beast", it is about specific false one, not many.

In Dan.7 it's about the "little horn".

In Dan.11 it's about the "vile person" and under his authority is placed the abomination that maketh desolate.


Rev.11:1-2 is showing us a temple existing in Jerusalem in that time, and those who worship within (i.e., orthodox Jews). The court outside it is left for the Gentiles to tread for 42 months. That 42 months period is the same period that the "dragon" of Rev.13 will reign.

God's "two witnesses" show up in Jerusalem and are killed there after their 1260 days of prophesying, which is the same time as the 42 months. Rev.11 also reveals to us that 'the beast' that ascends out of the bottomless pit is who makes war against them and kills them. So who is that particular beast coming out of the bottomless pit, and where does he ascend to? to Jerusalem is easy to figure out, because of he will kill God's two witnesses there in Jerusalem. We know it's Jerusalem because of Rev.11:8.

Who is the beast that makes war against the saints in the last days?

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

Rev 13:4-7
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
KJV


It's the "dragon".

And who per Rev.12:9 and 20:2 is that "dragon" of Revelation???

 

[KennethC]

DP this still does not say he comes from Jerusalem, for there is a few scriptures that says he surrounds and invades Israel and Jerusalem. Also it gives us the location from which he comes from as he is also called the king of the north, and OT and NT prophecies such as Revelation 2:13 speak of Turkey !!!

 

[DP]

DP this still does not say he comes from Jerusalem, for there is a few scriptures that says he surrounds and invades Israel and Jerusalem. Also it gives us the location from which he comes from as he is also called the king of the north, and OT and NT prophecies such as Revelation 2:13 speak of Turkey !!!

No, nor does it tell you how God's two witnesses get there. If you're using the Assyrian of Isaiah 10 as a blueprint, notice it doesn't say he took Jerusalem. But if you use the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) as a blueprint, you'll notice he did take Jerusalem, destroyed the temple and city, and took the people captive.

The closest historical blueprint we have of the coming false messiah and abomination of desolation at Jerusalem is that of Antiochus IV around 170 B.C. He took Jerusalem, didn't destroy the temple, but went into it and sacrificed swine upon the altar and placed an idol in it to Zeus, and demanded all to bow to that idol.

Ezekiel 8 & 9 serve also as a blueprint for the end regarding false worship at Jerusalem just prior to Christ's 2nd coming. Notice the "image of jealousy" setup there at the temple. Then Ezekiel 9 is about God's judgment upon only those without God's mark that He sends the angels to do, and they are told to begin at His sanctuary on earth. Ezekiel 9 is where Peter was pulling from in 1 Peter 4:17-18 that God's judgment at Christ's return will begin with His Church.

 

[KennethC]

No, nor does it tell you how God's two witnesses get there. If you're using the Assyrian of Isaiah 10 as a blueprint, notice it doesn't say he took Jerusalem. But if you use the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) as a blueprint, you'll notice he did take Jerusalem, destroyed the temple and city, and took the people captive.

The closest historical blueprint we have of the coming false messiah and abomination of desolation at Jerusalem is that of Antiochus IV around 170 B.C. He took Jerusalem, didn't destroy the temple, but went into it and sacrificed swine upon the altar and placed an idol in it to Zeus, and demanded all to bow to that idol.

Ezekiel 8 & 9 serve also as a blueprint for the end regarding false worship at Jerusalem just prior to Christ's 2nd coming. Notice the "image of jealousy" setup there at the temple. Then Ezekiel 9 is about God's judgment upon only those without God's mark that He sends the angels to do, and they are told to begin at His sanctuary on earth.

Again no scripture says the man of sin/1st beast/antichrist and so on comes from Jerusalem.

Not even the well known early scholars nor the early church leaders taught that, and to many scripture refute that as like the Word of God says he surrounds and invades Jerusalem.

 

[DP]

DP this still does not say he comes from Jerusalem, for there is a few scriptures that says he surrounds and invades Israel and Jerusalem. Also it gives us the location from which he comes from as he is also called the king of the north, and OT and NT prophecies such as Revelation 2:13 speak of Turkey !!!

Something else to consider...

Because our Lord Jesus foretold of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel after Antiochus IV had already died, then we know that was not fulfilled back in history, and it means to look forward for another. The Romans in 70 A.D. didn't fulfill it, because the temple burned before they could get possession of it. Since 70 A.D., there has been no Jewish temple in Jerusalem for that abomination of desolation idol to take place, so it is still future to our day, which also means another temple must be built in Jerusalem for the very end.

Also because of Scripture like our Lord Jesus warned concerning a pseudo Christ (as also Paul's), for Christ's elect to almost... be able to be deceived by that false messiah's great signs and wonders and miracles, it means that pseudo Christ must have a connection with Israel, and not Ishmael, nor any eastern pagan religious figure, nor a western leader nor a pope.

The orthodox Jews will believe that false one is The Messiah. All other religions will follow suit with them on that belief, even the deceived brethren in our Christian community. This is the expectance the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have been proclaiming for years now, already having the materials ready to build another temple in prep for the Messiah. They have garnished a lot... of the Christian community in support of it also.

The title king of the north in Daniel 11, I see as a different person than the coming false messiah, the one called the "vile person" there I believe will be the pseudo-Christ.

In Rev.2:13 I interpret that about Satan's seat as an expression. It was because of all the paganism that surrounded the Church at Smyrna, not that Satan's literal earthly rule is there. The particular OT blueprints God uses for this coming false messiah are the Assyrian (Isa.10), and the king of Babylon (Isa.14). Antiochus IV, a Seleucid king of Syria, was the strongest blueprint of the "vile person" and "little horn" of Daniel ordained for the end of this world.

Per Ezekiel 38, Turkey (as old Togarmah) is only a portion of the nations alignment under the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. It's that prince I consider as the one who will lead the armies out of the northern quarters on the last day of this world. The false messiah event is to occur prior to that though, because when the Gog and Magog hosts come upon Israel on the last day, that is when The LORD will step in and end this world with Christ's 2nd coming on the "day of the Lord". This is why God shows us there that army's defeat will by His Hand and not ours. On that day, they will know Who The GOD is, which is the purpose for that supper of the great God on that final day.

At the same time on that "day of the Lord", our Lord Jesus' will come to gather us on His return to Jerusalem, His feet touching down where He ascended from, destroying false messiah's reign, and flattening that temple area where the Rev.11 temple will be built. That is actually the time our Lord Jesus was talking about when He proclaimed there won't be one stone on top of another there per His Olivet Discourse.

 

[DP]

Again no scripture says the man of sin/1st beast/antichrist and so on comes from Jerusalem.

Not even the well known early scholars nor the early church leaders taught that, and to many scripture refute that as like the Word of God says he surrounds and invades Jerusalem.

The orthodox Jews would never fall for a foreigner to worship in place of Messiah. That is who they are expecting, and is who they will be told has come. That is our Lord Jesus' meaning about that pseudochristos in Matt.23-26. It is also Paul's meaning in the 2 Cor.11 chapter about the "another Jesus" with Satan disguised as an angel of light.

This is why all those who's names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of this world will worship that coming false one:

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

That one being spoken of is the "dragon" back at Rev.13:4. And per Rev.12:9 and 20:2, the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself. That is who is coming in that role of false messiah to play Christ. It is why those great signs and wonders will be so powerful so as to deceive the whole world, excepting Christ's elect.