The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

You didn't see me arguing anything.

Kefa

I do have to give you some credit because even though you have disagreed you have stayed civil and respectful unless I missed something............lol

 

[Kefa54]

(PeterJens: I think there is a spiritual dimension where our righteousness is derived from our walk and not from just reading a set of rules and trying to blindly follow them or some derived version of them.)

Is there some scripture on this?

Kefa

 

[Gr8grace]

His righteousness will show out in our actions as it comes from the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

To separate the walk from the faith and have a understanding that no evidence of His righteousness has to be seen would be disregarding scriptures from Jesus, Paul, James, and John that shows it does.

How can one have the Holy Spirit without evidence of it ???? There can't be !!!

I always try to be honest with you Ken. I regard you as a saved man, but you have fallen from grace.

I honestly have never seen fruits of the Spirit from your posts. I see EVIL or human good. Your a good, moral man I am sure. But I have not seen divine Good from your posts.

Fruits~~Our doctrines and mental attitude.

You search for evidence, when the Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit that we are saved.

 

[Shoshanah]

A statement - no one keeps it perfectly as it should be kept.

The rich young man kept it perfectly. Jesus pointed to a deeper issue, where his treasure was and what he trusted in.
He did not accuse him of sin, he in effect said his motivation was wrong, he just want security spiritually along with physical security provided by money.

The law has never been everything. It is like a perfect law keeper still is not justified, because God is the ultimate source of Life and love, without communion with Him we are lost.

Have you ever interviewed a very bright prospective employee. It is not they are not qualified, it is just they cannot work as a team player so are hopeless. Thinking the law is everything is still your game, not the bigger picture. You just believe we fail the law, when the law was just a shadow of a deeper reality, what is empathy, what is knowing appropriate responses and the limitation of being individuals.

This is why love takes us much deeper down into who we are and how we are with others in their struggles. This can make a sinner more alive than the self-righteous, because the sinner may know they fail and need work, the self-righteous think they have arrived and there is nothing more to do. We are always in a state of more to do, because new situations always require new learning.

Like another thread that parked this one off.
"and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:"
I like what you verbalized here.

(PeterJens: I think there is a spiritual dimension where our righteousness is derived from our walk and not from just reading a set of rules and trying to blindly follow them or some derived version of them.)

Is there some scripture on this?

Kefa

Matthew 23:23

 

[KennethC]

I always try to be honest with you Ken. I regard you as a saved man, but you have fallen from grace.

I honestly have never seen fruits of the Spirit from your posts. I see EVIL or human good. Your a good, moral man I am sure. But I have not seen divine Good from your posts.

Fruits~~Our doctrines and mental attitude.

You search for evidence, when the Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit that we are saved.

That is your opinion and not truth and I would be careful on passing such judgmental calls on others, as Jesus clearly tells us in the manner we judge another we also will be judged.

Fruit of the Spirit has a number of aspects to it and two of them is patience and longsuffering, and I thanks be to the Holy Spirit have shown a lot of that on here dealing with people who constantly throw false allegations at me and try to twist what I say, and also state things on me I never said.

Love does not leave others wollowing in false doctrine but tries to help them out of it by showing them what God's word really says. Walking in a doctrine that does not align with "all" of Gods word but only aligns with part of it is dangerous as scriptures can be pulled and used to say anything a person wants it to say.

This is what RickyZ was trying to show just a little bit ago, as this seems to be an issue on here from some who defend part of God's word but demean and belittle others who speak up on the other half.

I have shown multiple times scriptures from the bible that shows what believers can still do, and some of them do clearly say will perish, cast out, fall back to perdition, and name blotted out of the Book of Life.

It would be unloving not to warn others of the way they are walking, as Apostle Paul did not hold back when he saw a brother or sister in Christ behaving improperly in the faith. Instead he warned them and told them the outcome if they continued down that path !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I always try to be honest with you Ken. I regard you as a saved man, but you have fallen from grace.

I honestly have never seen fruits of the Spirit from your posts. I see EVIL or human good. Your a good, moral man I am sure. But I have not seen divine Good from your posts.

Fruits~~Our doctrines and mental attitude.

You search for evidence, when the Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit that we are saved.

That is your opinion and not truth and I would be careful on passing such judgmental calls on others, as Jesus clearly tells us in the manner we judge another we also will be judged.

I say good call on Gr8grace's part. Discerning of spirits is not the kind of judgment that scripture warns against.

 

[Shoshanah]

My family disagreed a lot when I was young. My older sister once shouted back to me, as she was walking away, her head turning back as she stomped off;

"If we can't get along on this earth, how are we going to be able to be a peace with each other in heaven?"

I will never forget that. Sense then we have reconciled. We smile and laugh about it now, but it was very bad then.

 

[crossnote]

A statement - no one keeps it perfectly as it should be kept.

The rich young man kept it perfectly. Jesus pointed to a deeper issue, where his treasure was and what he trusted in.
He did not accuse him of sin, he in effect said his motivation was wrong, he just want security spiritually along with physical security provided by money.

The law has never been everything. It is like a perfect law keeper still is not justified, because God is the ultimate source of Life and love, without communion with Him we are lost.

Have you ever interviewed a very bright prospective employee. It is not they are not qualified, it is just they cannot work as a team player so are hopeless. Thinking the law is everything is still your game, not the bigger picture. You just believe we fail the law, when the law was just a shadow of a deeper reality, what is empathy, what is knowing appropriate responses and the limitation of being individuals.

This is why love takes us much deeper down into who we are and how we are with others in their struggles. This can make a sinner more alive than the self-righteous, because the sinner may know they fail and need work, the self-righteous think they have arrived and there is nothing more to do. We are always in a state of more to do, because new situations always require new learning.

The rich young ruler thought he kept it perfectly, like some on this board, but Jesus nailed him in the area of coveteousness...and probably could have exposed him in many other areas.
Where did I say the law is everything?

Our failure is not love, but the lack of LIFE that produces such fruit as love.
"Thou shalt love" is actually law, which you are preaching, but man first needs His LIFE (born again) before he can produce the acceptable fruit of love.

 

[KennethC]

My family disagreed a lot when I was young. My older sister once shouted back to me, as she was walking away, her head turning back as she stomped off;

"If we can't get along on this earth, how are we going to be able to be a peace with each other in heaven?"

I will never forget that. Sense then we have reconciled. We smile and laugh about it now, but it was very bad then.

Sorry to hear this that you went through when you were younger.

Our Lord Jesus said these kind of divisions would happen even in our own families as some stand firm in His teachings while others never put their faith and trust in Him or are lead astray in teachings that do not keep with standing firm in Jesus but try to hide disobedience by telling others it is not for us.

 

[Gr8grace]

That is your opinion and not truth and I would be careful on passing such judgmental calls on others, as Jesus clearly tells us in the manner we judge another we also will be judged.

Fruit of the Spirit has a number of aspects to it and two of them is patience and longsuffering, and I thanks be to the Holy Spirit have shown a lot of that on here dealing with people who constantly throw false allegations at me and try to twist what I say, and also state things on me I never said.

Love does not leave others wollowing in false doctrine but tries to help them out of it by showing them what God's word really says. Walking in a doctrine that does not align with "all" of Gods word but only aligns with part of it is dangerous as scriptures can be pulled and used to say anything a person wants it to say.

This is what RickyZ was trying to show just a little bit ago, as this seems to be an issue on here from some who defend part of God's word but demean and belittle others who speak up on the other half.

I have shown multiple times scriptures from the bible that shows what believers can still do, and some of them do clearly say will perish, cast out, fall back to perdition, and name blotted out of the Book of Life.

It would be unloving not to warn others of the way they are walking, as Apostle Paul did not hold back when he saw a brother or sister in Christ behaving improperly in the faith. Instead he warned them and told them the outcome if they continued down that path !!!

And this is what I am doing Ken,warning you. You are walking in your own righteousness and do not realize it.

We can continue in carnality,religion or the Christian way of life as believers...............you have chosen religion or self righteousness.

It is the summation of your posts, not just a single post.


You are working for your salvation, I see it, and many others see it..................you don't. I warn you out of love and want the best for you.You see me as an enemy..............but I am not.

 

[KennethC]

And this is what I am doing Ken,warning you. You are walking in your own righteousness and do not realize it.

We can continue in carnality,religion or the Christian way of life as believers...............you have chosen religion or self righteousness.

It is the summation of your posts, not just a single post.


You are working for your salvation, I see it, and many others see it..................you don't. I warn you out of love and want the best for you.You see me as an enemy..............but I am not.

Again just your opinion and not truth as your warnings mean nothing to me since I am confident and assured thanks be to the Holy Spirit and God's Word that shows me I have His eternal life abiding in me.

You can continue to make these false judgmental calls on me, and I will continue to count it as joy to be attacked and ridiculed for standing up for His pure undefiled word.

The Word of God says work out our salvation with fear and trembling or do you disregard such scriptures ??? (Philippians 2:12)

I teach on obedience to the Lord out of faith and love for Him, what do you teach ??? <---Biblically supported

 

[KennethC]

Love, goodness, and kindness does not always mean that you tell people nice things they want to hear, but it means telling and showing them the truth in God's word and helping them in such to come to the Truth instead of continuing to walk the way they are in the flesh.

Apostle Paul did not always say nice comforting things to other believers, as he also in a number of cases called them out and warned them of the way they are walking and what it would lead to if they continued that way.

Some may not like that approach but it is clearly shown, supported, and allowed by the Word of God !!!

 

[Least]

That is your opinion and not truth and I would be careful on passing such judgmental calls on others, as Jesus clearly tells us in the manner we judge another we also will be judged.

Fruit of the Spirit has a number of aspects to it and two of them is patience and longsuffering, and I thanks be to the Holy Spirit have shown a lot of that on here dealing with people who constantly throw false allegations at me and try to twist what I say, and also state things on me I never said.

Love does not leave others wollowing in false doctrine but tries to help them out of it by showing them what God's word really says. Walking in a doctrine that does not align with "all" of Gods word but only aligns with part of it is dangerous as scriptures can be pulled and used to say anything a person wants it to say.

This is what RickyZ was trying to show just a little bit ago, as this seems to be an issue on here from some who defend part of God's word but demean and belittle others who speak up on the other half.

I have shown multiple times scriptures from the bible that shows what believers can still do, and some of them do clearly say will perish, cast out, fall back to perdition, and name blotted out of the Book of Life.

It would be unloving not to warn others of the way they are walking, as Apostle Paul did not hold back when he saw a brother or sister in Christ behaving improperly in the faith. Instead he warned them and told them the outcome if they continued down that path !!!

I don't see a battle of opposing scriptures. Scriptures don't oppose themselves, people oppose them by not considering the whole council.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The battle I've been witnessing is more one sided. Some of us know what God said, and Paul reiterated about not avenging ourselves.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

I see a lot of accusations being thrown around and a lot of mean spirited things being said.

God knows the truth Kenneth, keep standing on the truth.

Some very mean spirited and self-righteous comments have been spoken over the past few messages. I hope that those making those statements will consider the things as Paul wrote very clearly about those types of things.

Those who are asking others if they are made perfect by the law seem to think that they are perfected, but words sometimes speak louder than even our own hearts.

Paul NEVER shunned any part of God's word. I'll follow that lead as I know you will too.

Shake off some of the mean statements as you know they are not true brother.

 

[PeterJens]

God requires perfection, meaning not even an impure thought is allowed, missing one act of good is less than perfect.

I think you have just described that you make a law a principle that is impossible and not even a choice.
Thoughts are ideas that appear in our heads. They are not sin, some are a blessing, some are not.

Let me propose a simple idea. Imagine you are talking about how people fail. You think about their thinking, their wrong approaches. You are thinking about sinful actions, sinful motivations etc. That does not mean you have sinned, but for you it does. You have a dream that is inappropriate. Do you now call this sin?

Now what matters is what you choose to say and do, not your thoughts. You can choose to sow thoughts, to think on good things, upright things, but you cannot control what thoughts come into your mind. So I am not surprised you find the idea of perfection impossible. If I had your morality, I would also.

"Missing one act of good is less than perfect" - This is just insane. You can define any acts of good for anyone and then say they have failed.

This way of thinking is just self condemnation, not self acceptance. Not suprisingly because you can never reach this impossible standard, why talk about reasonable standards like the 10 commandments, or just loving your fellow believers.

When did Jesus say I called you to live a failed christian life with no reality?

 

[Shoshanah]

I don't see a battle of opposing scriptures. Scriptures don't oppose themselves, people oppose them by not considering the whole council.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The battle I've been witnessing is more one sided. Some of us know what God said, and Paul reiterated about not avenging ourselves.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

I see a lot of accusations being thrown around and a lot of mean spirited things being said.

God knows the truth Kenneth, keep standing on the truth.

Some very mean spirited and self-righteous comments have been spoken over the past few messages. I hope that those making those statements will consider the things as Paul wrote very clearly about those types of things.

Those who are asking others if they are made perfect by the law seem to think that they are perfected, but words sometimes speak louder than even our own hearts.

Paul NEVER shunned any part of God's word. I'll follow that lead as I know you will too.

Shake off some of the mean statements as you know they are not true brother.

Fruit
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

[KennethC]

I don't see a battle of opposing scriptures. Scriptures don't oppose themselves, people oppose them by not considering the whole council.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The battle I've been witnessing is more one sided. Some of us know what God said, and Paul reiterated about not avenging ourselves.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

I see a lot of accusations being thrown around and a lot of mean spirited things being said.

God knows the truth Kenneth, keep standing on the truth.

Some very mean spirited and self-righteous comments have been spoken over the past few messages. I hope that those making those statements will consider the things as Paul wrote very clearly about those types of things.

Those who are asking others if they are made perfect by the law seem to think that they are perfected, but words sometimes speak louder than even our own hearts.

Paul NEVER shunned any part of God's word. I'll follow that lead as I know you will too.

Shake off some of the mean statements as you know they are not true brother.

Yes I stand firm in the teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and have never wavered from this even though a couple have tried to claim I change what I say from one minute to the next. A clear look back in everything I have ever said on here will prove that false.

The thing that really gets me is those who usually claim such falsehoods on others never provide proof with their statements. Showing these are just unsupported accusations and lies !!!

God bless and stay standing firm as well !!!

 

[PeterJens]

Emotional reality

The mind dreams of things that often represent conflicts or problems within. Thoughts pop into ones mind that reflect motivations that are denied and repressed.

Part of walking with JESUS is accepting we are sinners, who have crazy emotions and impulses. It is not about repressing them but actually understanding them, learning how they effect you and working out strategies in Jesus's love to channel the energy in healthy directions.

One impossible lie people face is I do not have these ideas as part of me, emotionally I am not out of control, so the reality is never faced, so unfortunately victory or resolution is never achieved. You have to start with loving yourself as God loves you and working with your weaknesses.

What is a sad joke, is those who talk about being obedient to Jesus is being legalistic, are just saying they cannot obey and they do not know why, but they have never truly understood and accepted who they are as sinners, not righteous to any degree. Some have stated a long list of believing, and seeing if God can be trusted in this area or that area of their life.

This is not faith this is unbelief and playing at letting God be King. We are not a partial building with a few sections off beam, we are a mess top to bottom, which needs rebuilding, bottom up. You have to start by giving up and letting God show you the way.

 

[Kefa54]

Got scripture? Your personal philosophy is nice but I prefer scripture.


Kefa

Emotional reality

The mind dreams of things that often represent conflicts or problems within. Thoughts pop into ones mind that reflect motivations that are denied and repressed.

Part of walking with JESUS is accepting we are sinners, who have crazy emotions and impulses. It is not about repressing them but actually understanding them, learning how they effect you and working out strategies in Jesus's love to channel the energy in healthy directions.

One impossible lie people face is I do not have these ideas as part of me, emotionally I am not out of control, so the reality is never faced, so unfortunately victory or resolution is never achieved. You have to start with loving yourself as God loves you and working with your weaknesses.

What is a sad joke, is those who talk about being obedient to Jesus is being legalistic, are just saying they cannot obey and they do not know why, but they have never truly understood and accepted who they are as sinners, not righteous to any degree. Some have stated a long list of believing, and seeing if God can be trusted in this area or that area of their life.

This is not faith this is unbelief and playing at letting God be King. We are not a partial building with a few sections off beam, we are a mess top to bottom, which needs rebuilding, bottom up. You have to start by giving up and letting God show you the way.

 

[Kefa54]

Just stand strong and true to the scripture and don't get conned in to the non scriptural arguments. I remain on guard that I keep self under control and I don't play these games. This is Gods battle not ours. He will deliver.

Kefa

I don't see a battle of opposing scriptures. Scriptures don't oppose themselves, people oppose them by not considering the whole council.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The battle I've been witnessing is more one sided. Some of us know what God said, and Paul reiterated about not avenging ourselves.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

I see a lot of accusations being thrown around and a lot of mean spirited things being said.

God knows the truth Kenneth, keep standing on the truth.

Some very mean spirited and self-righteous comments have been spoken over the past few messages. I hope that those making those statements will consider the things as Paul wrote very clearly about those types of things.

Those who are asking others if they are made perfect by the law seem to think that they are perfected, but words sometimes speak louder than even our own hearts.

Paul NEVER shunned any part of God's word. I'll follow that lead as I know you will too.

Shake off some of the mean statements as you know they are not true brother.

 

[zzz98]

I always try to be honest with you Ken. I regard you as a saved man, but you have fallen from grace.

I honestly have never seen fruits of the Spirit from your posts. I see EVIL or human good. Your a good, moral man I am sure. But I have not seen divine Good from your posts.

Fruits~~Our doctrines and mental attitude.

You search for evidence, when the Holy Spirit testifies to our Spirit that we are saved.

A saved moral man you say? Then aaccuse this saved, moral man of EVIL? Something's wrong