The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

You are still on ignore E.G. but I had to respond because you just lied twice and here is where:

"To confront people who teach a false gospel of works. and make it known to the world not to follow them."

In the many discussions I have had with you there was only a couple days in all that time where there was comfort in your tone. The rest of the time was false allegations, accusing others of doing nothing of what you said they were doing, and even stating condemning remarks.

I put you on ignore 3 times on here because I took you off to give you a chance to be edifying and respectful in your responses, showing others the fruit of the Spirit they deserve. You could not do it so back on ignore you went, and I am responding now because I would appreciate it to see some honesty from you for once !!!

God bless and I will continue to pray for you !!!

 

[blue_ladybug]

As I was not being rude in my response, and Utah is the one who brought up the obesity issue.

I answered him and even came to him stating how we are to be careful of labeling people, as I mentioned the same as you that obesity is caused by multiple things and not just gluttony. As for sin no sin is acceptable in the eyes of God all deliberate unrepented sinful actions lead the same direction !!!

That's why I specifically stated that I was not calling either of you rude. But the issue comes up and not only with gluttony. It comes up with homelessness, some people assume either the person didn't pay their rent, so now their homeless. Homelessness occurs in a multitude of ways also. As does gluttony, but that's a subject for a different thread. And you're right, UNREPENTED sin leads only one direction, IF that sin is done willfully and in rebellion, and defiance of God's command to repent the sin. Otherwise, as Utah stated, the direction leads upward, if that sin IS repented.

 

[Magenta]

This is completely true as even when sources are given they still get ignored because of how a person was brought up in their teachings if they counter what they have been told.

I have multiple times posted direct quotes form 2nd and 3rd Century Apostles and leaders of the early church beginnings that clearly showed that OSAS or eternal security was not taught in the first 3 centuries.

I was accused of using Catholic doctrine which is a false understanding as the Catholic church did not start tell the 4th century. Then doctrines such as those came out starting in the 4th century from Augustine on, and so did other defiling of the word of God including that of adding new meanings and usages to the original Greek.

I know this doesn't go over well with some on here and I am sorry for that, but God's truth has to be shown over what man considers truth !!!

In pondering how to show you proper respect in answering this post, I wondered how long the Trinity doctrine has been taught, which may have nothing to do with this thread per se, but is an interesting question still the same and relative to what you have posted above. Apparently the doctrine itself did not come into being until the third or fourth century. What I am pointing at is the fact that later entry into general understanding and acceptance does not by necessity indicate error

 

[JaumeJ]

Deliberate and unrepented sinners will not go to heaven because they are unrepented. What kind of understanding would say otherwise.

To be unrepented is not accepting the Blood of the Lamb of God. It is not that such is sent to hell, it is that such does not want heaven...........think about it.

And that would be upward, as in Heaven, for all people who have faith in Jesus Christ.

Grace; its what's for dinner. Try some.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm trying to figure out how your work for God is not legalist yet everyone else's is

1. I am not working to gain salvation (or to keep myself from losing it)
2. I am not looking for self gain, nor do I take credit for anything I do
3. I can't stop sin on my own, so I do not take credit for changing my life.

when someone states work MUST be done, Not SHOULD BE done. when they claim salvation is based on it, Then it is legalistic.

if one states salvation can be lost. they are working to maintain that salvation (no matter how hard they deny it) they are legalistic.

I can get legalistic myself. I can complain because I did all this work and no one even said thank you. Legalism comes in many forms.

that is why it is so dangerous.

 

[KennethC]

That's why I specifically stated that I was not calling either of you rude. But the issue comes up and not only with gluttony. It comes up with homelessness, some people assume either the person didn't pay their rent, so now their homeless. Homelessness occurs in a multitude of ways also. As does gluttony, but that's a subject for a different thread. And you're right, UNREPENTED sin leads only one direction, IF that sin is done willfully and in rebellion, and defiance of God's command to repent the sin. Otherwise, as Utah stated, the direction leads upward, if that sin IS repented.

Yes those are topics for another thread, but as for the last thing you said this is not what Utah was saying.

I said deliberate unrepented sin all leads the same direction, and Utah responded to this that if they are under grace they would still go to heaven. He was alluding to say a person could still be in unrepented sin and under grace at the same time. A person is not under grace if they are living in unrepented deliberate sin, as that is their master they serve and Paul clearly says that way leads to eternal death.

 

[crossnote]

In pondering how to show you proper respect in answering this post, I wondered how long the Trinity doctrine has been taught, which may have nothing to do with this thread per se, but is an interesting question still the same and relative to what you have posted above. Apparently the doctrine itself did not come into being until the third or fourth century. What I am pointing at is the fact that later entry into general understanding and acceptance does not by necessity indicate error

Especially considering the fact that the teachings of the ECF evolved into Roman theology and Dark ages and antisemitism as well as a system of works...which btw many evangelicals are to a degree infected with the same.

 

[JaumeJ]

God is greatly glorified by His children while many are being exposed by their own words. Praise Jesus Christ, amen.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, who obey Him because they love Him, for all who love Him obey Him, amen.

 

[KennethC]

In pondering how to show you proper respect in answering this post, I wondered how long the Trinity doctrine has been taught, which may have nothing to do with this thread per se, but is an interesting question still the same and relative to what you have posted above. Apparently the doctrine itself did not come into being until the third or fourth century. What I am pointing at is the fact that later entry into general understanding and acceptance does not by necessity indicate error

Well it does when one can easily look into the teachings of Augustine from the 4th century and Calvin during the Protestant reformation movement and how they both went apostate in their teachings which is when these doctrines derived from.

I have done research on both of these men and seen a number of things they both taught that contradict scripture !!!

 

[Dan_473]

also, I see that in the post below I misspelled your username. My apologies!

Hi JamuelJ!

 

[Magenta]

Well it does when one can easily look into the teachings of Augustine from the 4th century and Calvin during the Protestant reformation movement and how they both went apostate in their teachings which is when these doctrines derived from.

I have done research on both of these men and seen a number of things they both taught that contradict scripture !!!

I find Augustine almost impossible to read. Either he was thick, or I am LOL.
I have not really tried to read Calvin. I have look at Calvinism and Armenianism, of course...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not God. I cannot say who is or is not called. I am called merely to spread the seed, and water it. It is God who gives the growth and God who does the calling. I bow to His will and His grace.

See this is why I say we are so close. Because I agree with what you say here But as always with legalism, We get to the next point, and you go right back to where the point of confrontation is.

Can I lose my salvation? Yes.

Thank you. Was that so hard? it took how many hours and how many posts for you just to admit this one little thing?

But why would I?

I would ask How Could you. But thats because I place my faith in Christ, Not myself

Jesus is eternal, the King of Kings, the conquerer of death, the giver of life, love, the truth, the definer of the heart of man. No where else can I find such wisdom and victory, under no other banner is written, I rose from the dead, believe in me to gain eternal life.

And here is more reasons to say, The proper response should not be why WOULD I, but HOW COULD I. For these very reasons.

So what is purpose of your question. The Lord of Hosts would question you today why your pursue His people as if they are an enemy? Which side do you really stand on, or are you too afraid to really let Him have sovereignty over your life?

well I am not God. But from what you just said, I am not quite sure your one of his children. He stated he gave you eternal life. He stated he gave you the seal of the spirit who is the guarantee of your eternal life. (john 3) He stated if you believed in him you would never hunger, never thirst, Never die, live forever, have eternal life, and given his assurance he would raise you on the last day (john 6) He stated you have passed from life to death, and that has perfected your forever (heb 10) He staed you have an inheritance, and in fact, he gave you the HS as a guarantee and seal of that inheritance until you actually get to heave to collect it. (eph 1)

I can go on and on and on about things that God has promised those who are adopted as his children, But these are alot in themsleves. and you deny all of them, so you deny Gods promises and you want me to think you are his child? How can a child of God who says he trust fully in him deny what God promised?

You doubt, yet He died for you, he went to the cross in front of some of the most evil, sinful people the world could dredge up and He said nothing.

No, I do not doubt, I have all I posted above and so much more. My faith is in Christ, Not myself and how good or how bad I may be, God already gave me his requirement and standard (the law) I already failed, am failing and will continue to live up to Gods standard. But that does not mean I will not trust him to empower me to get closer..

now If I was you. I would be scared to death, You have no assurance, only a psuedo assurance which is no assurance at all.

I bow, I lay prostate before His holiness, His grace, I am a man undone, nothing and no one can compare to who and what He is, the creator of the universe become a man, and to walk with us and to finally humble himself to a murderers death.
He changed my life, has been my Lord through thick and thin and to Him I give all the honour, Amen.

You better work harder, and keep running that race, You may lose salvation (rolls eyes)

 

[JaumeJ]

Not a problem, we are all waiting our new name, God be willing. JaumJ is my screen name, but Jack is the real deal. God bless you.

also, I see that in the post below I misspelled your username. My apologies!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is greatly glorified by His children while many are being exposed by their own words. Praise Jesus Christ, amen.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, who obey Him because they love Him, for all who love Him obey Him, amen.

yes they do.

Because God loved us and saved us from eternal damnation and gave us a new life in Christ.

Oh wait, you do not believe that, Your still trying to not be damned for eternity, I will let you go back to your working, Good luck in your work. I hope you make it.

 

[Magenta]

Especially considering the fact that the teachings of the ECF evolved into Roman theology and Dark ages and antisemitism as well as a system of works...which btw many evangelicals are to a degree infected with the same.

I would say some of the teachings did, while others clearly did not... unless I am mistaken, of course. I must admit I have read more about them from others than actually having had studied the works of their own hands...

 

[crossnote]

I find Augustine almost impossible to read. Either he was thick, or I am LOL.
I have not really tried to read Calvin. I have look at Calvinism and Armenianism, of course...

I used to read the Early Church Fathers (ECF) until it dawned on me that..well...they just weren't early enough. lol

 

[KennethC]

I find Augustine almost impossible to read. Either he was thick, or I am LOL.

Well I read a number of his own quotes and the biggest one that stands out that I have given a lot on here is he said that falling away and apostasy is impossible to do, even though the bible says it will and does happen.

Calvin stated the same thing that of falling away being impossible !!!

Yet the only time impossible is used with falling away is in Hebrews 6:4-6, but it is not in reference to the falling away being impossible. It is saying it is impossible bringing these people mentioned here to repent of their ways because they do not want to give up their sinful behavior.

 

[JaumeJ]

The teachings of Jesus Christ are perfect. We would serve God best by following them and not the teachings of man about Him. They never agree; this is why be have denominaitons and the faith of Abraham has been brushed aside.

 

[Dan_473]

Not a problem, we are all waiting our new name, God be willing. JaumJ is my screen name, but Jack is the real deal. God bless you.

Thanks!

why do you say that? are we commanded to travel to Jerusalem three times a year?

say, did you see this post? it's cool if you don't want to answer it, I just didn't know if you saw it...

 

[Magenta]

Well I read a number of his own quotes and the biggest one that stands out that I have given a lot on here is he said that falling away and apostasy is impossible to do, even though the bible says it will and does happen.

Calvin stated the same thing that of falling away being impossible !!!

Yet the only time impossible is used with falling away is in Hebrews 6:4-6, but it is not in reference to the falling away being impossible. It is saying it is impossible bringing these people mentioned here to repent of their ways because they do not want to give up their sinful behavior.

The saying of Augustine's I am most familiar with is:

In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty, in all things, charity.

I do like that

And who doesn't know TULIP from Calvin? The problem with many of these
man made understandings is they seem to always leave something to be desired.