Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[kohelet]

Actually, Catholicism adheres to the basic tenets of Christian orthodoxy as defined by the Creeds (which, btw, are based on scripture). This is the SAME orthodoxy (and the same creeds) observed by the vast majority of Christendom.

The groups and individuals who claim that the Roman Catholic Church is "not Christian" have either:
A. created their own "orthodoxy"
B. fail to understand what orthodoxy is and how it is important in the history of the Church OR
C. understand orthodoxy, accept orthodoxy, but elevate non-essential doctrines to support their dislike and to make the claim of "not Christian"

For example, prayer to the saints is a non-essential doctrine.

I think it is useful for Christians to familiarize themselves with the Creeds (Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian). Additionally, it's probably also useful for people to recognize that the vast majority of doctrines that they find objectionable within the RCC are also present within the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, some sects of Presbyterianism, some sects of Methodism, etc. So, it might be important for people to decide how small they want God's kingdom to be.

We do agree on the essentials. If there is any doubt, a thorough treatment of this by Normal Geisler and Ralph MacKenzie, Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences may help put things in perspective.

 

[notuptome]

Right! so, does the Spirit lead each person into truth individually, each on their own path,

or, does the Spirit lead the Body of Christ as a whole, and if one wants to know the truth of the bible, follow the Body as a whole...

depending on how a person answers that, it usually lines up with whether they are Catholic or Protestant.

imo, both positions are logical, they just start with different assumptions...

1 Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

You see corporate in there anywhere? Christians unite around the word of God and somehow know when it is taught correctly.
That's because they all have the same Teacher who is God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ahwatukee]

Actually, Catholicism adheres to the basic tenets of Christian orthodoxy as defined by the Creeds (which, btw, are based on scripture). This is the SAME orthodoxy (and the same creeds) observed by the vast majority of Christendom.

What is important is not what the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, some sects of Presbyterianism, some sects of Methodism, or any other group practices. It is what is according to the word of God that matter's. Which practices that the RCC is abiding in do you think are in accordance with scripture, the worship of Mary as queen of heaven? Mary as co-mediator, born without sin and full of grace? How about the changing the two elements by the of the Lord's supper from bread and wine into the Eucharist, where transubstantiation takes place, so that the partaker is literally eating the flesh and blood of the Lord? Or the sacraments, which is trying to obtain salvation by works? What about the teachings of Purgatory and Indulgences? The praying to saints and angels? And how about that pagan Egyptian obelisk sitting out in St. Peter's square? There is absolutely no reason, no apologetic for that to be sitting on the front porch of what is claiming to be the true church of Christ. Please don't even attempt to infer that the RCC is abiding in the word of God, because she is anything but Christian. She is a counterfeit! And I'm taking about the RCC and her beliefs as a system, not the people.

Now, there are definitely people within her who belong to Christ and whom God is calling out so that they will not partake of her plagues, which will come during the reign of the beast. But as far as the RCC goes, it is pagan through and through.

 

[Jackson123]

sounds good! so, in order to compare to the bible then, you kind of fall into the "Spirit gives interpretations to individuals" camp... imo...

Yup, Jesus promise to teach every believer/genuine believer.

Jesus doesn't discriminate whether we are poor or rich, high social status or low. Jesus love every body and willing to teach and talk to every believer as long as we are genuine.

 

[Jackson123]

Actually, Catholicism adheres to the basic tenets of Christian orthodoxy as defined by the Creeds (which, btw, are based on scripture). This is the SAME orthodoxy (and the same creeds) observed by the vast majority of Christendom.

The groups and individuals who claim that the Roman Catholic Church is "not Christian" have either:
A. created their own "orthodoxy"
B. fail to understand what orthodoxy is and how it is important in the history of the Church OR
C. understand orthodoxy, accept orthodoxy, but elevate non-essential doctrines to support their dislike and to make the claim of "not Christian"

For example, prayer to the saints is a non-essential doctrine.

I think it is useful for Christians to familiarize themselves with the Creeds (Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian). Additionally, it's probably also useful for people to recognize that the vast majority of doctrines that they find objectionable within the RCC are also present within the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, some sects of Presbyterianism, some sects of Methodism, etc. So, it might be important for people to decide how small they want God's kingdom to be.

Catholic teach Muslim God is also Abraham God.

It is not in the scripture.

No where in the scripture Allah is Abraham God.

People than say catholic is christian fail to understand bible.

 

[zzz98]

What is important is not what the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, some sects of Presbyterianism, some sects of Methodism, or any other group practices. It is what is according to the word of God that matter's. Which practices that the RCC is abiding in do you think are in accordance with scripture, the worship of Mary as queen of heaven? Mary as co-mediator, born without sin and full of grace? How about the changing the two elements by the of the Lord's supper from bread and wine into the Eucharist, where transubstantiation takes place, so that the partaker is literally eating the flesh and blood of the Lord? Or the sacraments, which is trying to obtain salvation by works? What about the teachings of Purgatory and Indulgences? The praying to saints and angels? And how about that pagan Egyptian obelisk sitting out in St. Peter's square? There is absolutely no reason, no apologetic for that to be sitting on the front porch of what is claiming to be the true church of Christ. Please don't even attempt to infer that the RCC is abiding in the word of God, because she is anything but Christian. She is a counterfeit! And I'm taking about the RCC and her beliefs as a system, not the people.

Now, there are definitely people within her who belong to Christ and whom God is calling out so that they will not partake of her plagues, which will come during the reign of the beast. But as far as the RCC goes, it is pagan through and through.

If you are not Catholic, then why are you so worked up about this? Its like Atheists being mad at God

 

[Ahwatukee]

If you are not Catholic, then why are you so worked up about this? Its like Atheists being mad at God

Because Christian's need to be on their toes, aware of what the word of God teaches, aware of false teachers and false teachings. Christianity is being watered down, diluted and people need to know what the truth is and they need to stand firm on that truth without compromise. Therefore, when I see someone infer that an institution like the RCC as being in line with Christianity, I expose it in order to make known her pagan practices and who she really is. She is that woman who rides the beast, Mystery Babylon with all of her pagan practices and she needs to be exposed for what she is.

The RCC and one of her future pope's are going to play a big part as being that last day religious system that the beast will use to deceive the inhabitants of the earth. It will be the beast through the false prophet that the RCC will get the power that she desires, which is to bring all people under her control and accountable to the pope. She fits every criteria as Mystery Babylon, right down to the base colors of her liturgy. The RCC and her pope's were responsible for the major inquisitions where people were forced to give themselves over to church in Rome or be labeled as a heretic, where they would be imprisoned, property confiscated, tortured and killed. For many centuries, the pope's controlled kings and their armies with the threat of excommunication. When that beast/antichrist comes, the RCC will get the power back that she has been desiring, complete religious control over all people. If you want know the history behind the RCC, her pope's and her activities, I would suggest the book by Dave Hunt: "A Woman Rides the Beast (The Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days.)"

The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:

She was glittering with gold

Those in Christ need to understand and be aware of who the RCC really is!

 

[zzz98]

Because Christian's need to be on their toes, aware of what the word of God teaches, aware of false teachers and false teachings. Christianity is being watered down, diluted and people need to know what the truth is and they need to stand firm on that truth without compromise. Therefore, when I see someone infer that an institution like the RCC as being in line with Christianity, I expose it in order to make known her pagan practices and who she really is. She is that woman who rides the beast, Mystery Babylon with all of her pagan practices and she needs to be exposed for what she is.

The RCC and one of her future pope's are going to play a big part as being that last day religious system that the beast will use to deceive the inhabitants of the earth. It will be the beast through the false prophet that the RCC will get the power that she desires, which is to bring all people under her control and accountable to the pope. She fits every criteria as Mystery Babylon, right down to the base colors of her liturgy. The RCC and her pope's were responsible for the major inquisitions where people were forced to give themselves over to church in Rome or be labeled as a heretic, where they would be imprisoned, property confiscated, tortured and killed. For many centuries, the pope's controlled kings and their armies with the threat of excommunication. When that beast/antichrist comes, the RCC will get the power back that she has been desiring, complete religious control over all people. If you want know the history behind the RCC, her pope's and her activities, I would suggest the book by Dave Hunt: "A Woman Rides the Beast (The Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days.)"

The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:

She was glittering with gold

Those in Christ need to understand and be aware of who the RCC really is!

Ok, i really understand now. Ummmm, good luck with that

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ok, i really understand now. Ummmm, good luck with that

Your response is exactly why I make this information known.

 

[zzz98]

Your response is exactly why I make this information known.

Not everyone agrees that your interpretation is correct. Sells lots of books, but correct is questionable

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not everyone agrees that your interpretation is correct. Sells lots of books, but correct is questionable

Not selling any books. I've just studied end time events and the word of God for over 40 years and so I know what I am talking about. People are so removed from the word of God, that they don't even realize that they are and have been using the same system that the mark of the beast will eventually utilize, which is electronic crediting and debiting. The Lord made me aware of this form when I first began to study Revelation and since then I watched when the first ATM's came out, followed by the Universal Produce Code (UPC) and then the Point of Sale system (POS). More and more people began to make their purchases electronically. For some time now we have been seeing businesses pushing to phase out invoice remittance in lieu of electronic payment. Now with all of the new hardware and software, people are able to credit and debit each others bank accounts. In addition, there are businesses in Europe whose employees are being implanted with RFID chips under the skin of the hand, which allows them access into their office buildings, the use of office equipment and here's the big one, to make purchases at the local café. This is already happening. And if you didn't make the connection, here it is:

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

This is the very reason that we have seen this technology of electronic crediting and debiting evolve and why we are seeing the technology for this RFID chip implantatioon. The system of electronic crediting and debiting, as well as the technology for RFID chip implantation, will continue to evolve leading up to the revealing of that antichrist. At some point during his reign, cash, checks, crediting and debiting with cards will be made obsolete leaving only that sub-dermal device, the mark. At that point it will be necessary to receive the mark if one wants to continue to be able to electronically make purchases. But instead of swiping a card, they will have their own personal mark that will allow them to perform the same electronic transactions. Below is a BBC Newscast which aired this last January. Check it out. The fact that this technology even exists demonstrates the truth and accuracy of God's word.

Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

 

[Jackson123]

Not everyone agrees that your interpretation is correct. Sells lots of books, but correct is questionable

what happen if the source is from Vatican itself.

Example, how false is to said Muslim and Abraham share the same God.

ccc 460 we/catholic might become God.


About how Vatican want to rule the world, you can google it. A thousand article about Popes speech how they want one world government.

Why they promote one world government ?

Revelation 13 talk about a Leader that lead the whole world, He lead all the kings on the earth and Lucifer behind him.

In other word, Lucifer behind one world government, and Popes promote it.

Mean Pope promote Lucifer government/work together with Lucifer.

Let not forget, these article bellow is base on Pope speech, not from other.


[h=3]Pope Calls for New World Government - theTrumpet.com[/h]https://www.thetrumpet.com/.../pope-calls-for-ne...The Philadelphia Trumpet


Jun 29, 2015 - Here he builds on the previous pope's, Benedict xvi's, radical call for a “world political authority” in one of his encyclicals. Benedict's statement ...


[h=3]The Vatican Calls for World Government - Forbes[/h]www.forbes.com/sites/.../the-vatican-calls-for-world-government/

Forbes


Oct 25, 2011 - That isn't just the implication it's the explicit call in the latest from the ... to a system of world government: If Vatican cardinals have yet to join the Occupy ... upon preparing us for the life after this one that's no bad thing of course, ...You've visited this page 3 times. Last visit: 7/5/15



[h=3]Articles - One World Government - Understand the Times[/h]www.understandthetimes.org/topics/oneworldgov.shtml

July 11 2015, Pope Francis releases papal Agenda 21, calls for globalist governmentto manage 'sustainable development,' ignores GMO and pharmaceutical ...


[h=3]Did Pope Benedict really call for a “One-World Government ...[/h]www.catholicvote.org/did-pope-benedict-really-call-for-a-one-world-go...

Newspapers, blogs, talk-shows on radio and television are full of discussion over PopeBenedict XVI's supposed call for a “new world order” or a “one-world ...


[h=3]Pope Francis Calls For A New Global Political Authority To ...[/h]www.zerohedge.com/.../pope-francis-calls-new-global-politic...

Zero Hedge


Jun 18, 2015 - But what is raising eyebrows is the Pope's call for a new global political authority. ..... One World Government Initially Emerging As Global CO2 ...


[h=3]WHOOPS! Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government[/h]www.businessinsider.com/whoops-vatican-lets-slip-plans...

Business Insider


Oct 24, 2011 - Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government ... Vatican officials accidently call for the establishment of a One World ... (Here we thought the Catholic Church and the Popes were in the business of promoting Catholicism.).

 

[zzz98]

what happen if the source is from Vatican itself.

Example, how false is to said Muslim and Abraham share the same God.

ccc 460 we/catholic might become God.


About how Vatican want to rule the world, you can google it. A thousand article about Popes speech how they want one world government.

Why they promote one world government ?

Revelation 13 talk about a Leader that lead the whole world, He lead all the kings on the earth and Lucifer behind him.

In other word, Lucifer behind one world government, and Popes promote it.

Mean Pope promote Lucifer government/work together with Lucifer.

Let not forget, these article bellow is base on Pope speech, not from other.


[h=3]Pope Calls for New World Government - theTrumpet.com[/h]https://www.thetrumpet.com/.../pope-calls-for-ne...The Philadelphia Trumpet


Jun 29, 2015 - Here he builds on the previous pope's, Benedict xvi's, radical call for a “world political authority” in one of his encyclicals. Benedict's statement ...


[h=3]The Vatican Calls for World Government - Forbes[/h]www.forbes.com/sites/.../the-vatican-calls-for-world-government/

Forbes


Oct 25, 2011 - That isn't just the implication it's the explicit call in the latest from the ... to a system of world government: If Vatican cardinals have yet to join the Occupy ... upon preparing us for the life after this one that's no bad thing of course, ...You've visited this page 3 times. Last visit: 7/5/15



[h=3]Articles - One World Government - Understand the Times[/h]www.understandthetimes.org/topics/oneworldgov.shtml

July 11 2015, Pope Francis releases papal Agenda 21, calls for globalist governmentto manage 'sustainable development,' ignores GMO and pharmaceutical ...


[h=3]Did Pope Benedict really call for a “One-World Government ...[/h]www.catholicvote.org/did-pope-benedict-really-call-for-a-one-world-go...

Newspapers, blogs, talk-shows on radio and television are full of discussion over PopeBenedict XVI's supposed call for a “new world order” or a “one-world ...


[h=3]Pope Francis Calls For A New Global Political Authority To ...[/h]www.zerohedge.com/.../pope-francis-calls-new-global-politic...

Zero Hedge


Jun 18, 2015 - But what is raising eyebrows is the Pope's call for a new global political authority. ..... One World Government Initially Emerging As Global CO2 ...


[h=3]WHOOPS! Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government[/h]www.businessinsider.com/whoops-vatican-lets-slip-plans...

Business Insider


Oct 24, 2011 - Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government ... Vatican officials accidently call for the establishment of a One World ... (Here we thought the Catholic Church and the Popes were in the business of promoting Catholicism.).

You're way off in La La land. This isn't worth the time

 

[Jackson123]

You're way off in La La land. This isn't worth the time

I don't understand what do you mean by not worth the time.

your own Popes make a speech to promote Lucifer kingdom/one world government and you don't think it worth the to investigate.

It for your own salvation. Your Pope direct you to the devil and you don't want to wake up before to late?


God Love you and warn you. Your Pope and devil hate you and pretend to love you.

Hope you read what you Pope promote and compare to the bible.

when other brother ask you to read a book from non catholic writer you said it may lie


when I ask you to read what you own Pope speech you said not worth the time.

Think and think how the devil blinded you

 

[zzz98]

I don't understand what do you mean by not worth the time.

your own Popes make a speech to promote Lucifer kingdom/one world government and you don't think it worth the to investigate.

It for your own salvation. Your Pope direct you to the devil and you don't want to wake up before to late?


God Love you and warn you. Your Pope and devil hate you and pretend to love you.

Hope you read what you Pope promote and compare to the bible.

like I said, this nonsense is not worth the time

 

[Jackson123]

like I said, this nonsense is not worth the time

What do you mean by nonsense.

your Pope speech is nonsense or what?

 

[Dan_473]

1 Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

You see corporate in there anywhere? Christians unite around the word of God and somehow know when it is taught correctly.
That's because they all have the same Teacher who is God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

that's certainly a common interpretation of the passage, and one I'm not opposed to, really...

but consider the 'corporate' idea... "Now we have received"... it's plural... so, imo, could be corporate...

in the end, imo, it becomes recursive, because the one who sees 'individuals' here would have to rely on personal interpretation to know it refers to individuals.

 

[Dan_473]

Christians ... somehow know when it is taught correctly.

as a teenager, I went to an AG church. my best friend there was an intelligent, sincere seeker of truth. in his twenties he decided to become Eastern Orthodox. why? I think he would say 'the church as a whole cannot be in error'.

 

[Dan_473]

Yup, Jesus promise to teach every believer/genuine believer.

I think that's a good position to take... sometimes, though, it may be helpful to know that it's based on an assumption... as far as I can see...

 

[notuptome]

as a teenager, I went to an AG church. my best friend there was an intelligent, sincere seeker of truth. in his twenties he decided to become Eastern Orthodox. why? I think he would say 'the church as a whole cannot be in error'.

The same reasoning led Israel into apostasy and captivity many times in their history.

God always sent individuals in the prophets to give them the truth.

Christ as the Living head of the church universal comprised of individual believers is always connected to the Truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger