How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?

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R

Roberth

Banned
#621
Oct 3, 2015
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#621
Roberth said:


And do you think the Spirit is going to lead you to be in harmony with the law, or out of harmony with it? Is the Spirit going to prompt you to commit adultery, fornication, theft, murder, etc? No!
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Gal 5:13 For you were called to freedom (free from under the law), brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity to indulge your flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law can be summed up in a single commandment, namely, “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” ....But I say, live by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh has desires that are opposed to the Spirit, and the Spirit has desires that are opposed to the flesh, for these are in opposition to each other, so that you cannot do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, depravity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish rivalries, dissensions, factions,21 envying, murder, drunkenness, carousing, and similar things. I am warning you, as I had warned you before: Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God!
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#622
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
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#622
Roberth said:
No, you said it's obsolete.... Therefore it's of no use. Hence there's no definition of sin and therefore I am not a sinner. If I'm not a sinner than I don't need Christ.

See where your bad theology takes you?
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It's obsolete because GOD created a better way. The law is not useless, though, because we can learn from it.

And again, gentiles have never been under the law of Moses. Even if they had been, GOD's law has changed.

In calling [the new covenant] new, he has declared the former [covenant] to be old. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is near to disappearing. Hebrews 8:13

For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:12​
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#623
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
#623
Roberth said:


And do you think the Spirit is going to lead you to be in harmony with the law, or out of harmony with it? Is the Spirit going to prompt you to commit adultery, fornication, theft, murder, etc? No!
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If you follow the law, you can commit adultery, fornication, theft, murder, etc. Read the sermon on the mount. If you follow the law, you can still sin. Read the parable of the good Samaritan.

If you follow Christ, you'll fulfill what the law actually requires.
 
S

senzi

Guest
#624
#624
Only a law of righteousness is obsolete, not the law itself
 
S

senzi

Guest
#625
#625
If the law is obsolete you do not need a saviour from sin during your christian life. Some may call that blasphemy
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#626
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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0
#626
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
It's obsolete because GOD created a better way. The law is not useless, though, because we can learn from it.

And again, gentiles have never been under the law of Moses. Even if they had been, GOD's law has changed.
In calling [the new covenant] new, he has declared the former [covenant] to be old. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is near to disappearing. Hebrews 8:13

For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:12​
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Again, you are mixing laws....The Old Covenant wasn't the law. It was the terms of the law, which were "obey and live, disobey and die".

The New Covenant is God's promise to save you "in Christ" and now write that same law (the moral law) in your "inner man". This is the experience of sanctification. Now you know conscientiously that it is sin to commit adultery, fornicate, steal, etc. Your mind is now in harmony with God's law, even though your nature remains opposed to it. And so we struggle with sin, but "in Christ" we are perfect!
 
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R

Roberth

Banned
#627
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#627
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
If you follow the law, you can commit adultery, fornication, theft, murder, etc. Read the sermon on the mount. If you follow the law, you can still sin. Read the parable of the good Samaritan.

If you follow Christ, you'll fulfill what the law actually requires.
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Who said anything about following the law???? The law shows I am a sinner and that I need the imputed righteousness of Christ. You need to start reading what I am stating...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#628
Sep 4, 2012
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#628
Roberth said:
Who said anything about following the law???? The law shows I am a sinner and that I need the imputed righteousness of Christ. You need to start reading what I am stating...
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The holy spirit will show you that you're a sinner in a much more detailed and profound way than the law is capable of doing.
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#630
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#630
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The holy spirit will show you that you're a sinner in a much more detailed and profound way than the law is capable of doing.
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The Holy Spirit will use the law to convict you of sin, unless you know nothing of the law.
 
S

senzi

Guest
#631
#631
The holy spirit convicts you of sin for he places the law on your heart and writes it on your mind at conversion. Without that happening you cannot be born again or therefore saved
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#632
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
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#632
Roberth said:
Again, you are mixing laws....The Old Covenant wasn't the law. It was the terms of the law, which were "obey and live, disobey and die".

The New Covenant is God's promise to save you "in Christ" and now write that same law (the moral law) in your "inner man". This is the experience of sanctification. Now you know conscientiously that it is sin to commit adultery, fornicate, steal, etc. Your mind is now in harmony with God's law, even though your nature remains opposed to it. And so we struggle with sin, but "in Christ" we are perfect!
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The law of Moses was the law of the old covenant. It was delivered to Israel through the Levitical priesthood. Since there has been a change of both covenant and priesthood, there was of necessity a change in law also. We are under the law of the new covenant, not the old (which doesn't even exist anymore).
 
R

Roberth

Banned
#633
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#633
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The law of Moses was the law of the old covenant. It was delivered to Israel through the Levitical priesthood. .
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No!

Ex 34:28 "And he (God) wrote on the tablets of stone the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

 
R

Roberth

Banned
#636
Oct 3, 2015
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#636
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
.... the old (which doesn't even exist anymore).
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Baloney!

If you haven't accepted Christ you are under the law. You are under the terms of the OC, which are, "obey & live", "disobey & die". Since all have sinned then all stand condemned, under law, to eternal damnation. This is our predicament before Christ.

Again, Gal 3:22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

When you accept the gospel (which I have been presenting) you move from under law (the Old Covenant) to under grace.

Everyone who rejects Christ is under law. And in the judgment the law will be their judge. They will not be covered by the righteousness of Christ.

You are beating the drums of dispensationalism, which is a heresy. Nowhere does it teach that the Jews were saved under the OC and the Gentile under the NC. We are saved in Christ, period! Both Jew and Gentile can find only one way to heaven and that is through or "in Christ". Therefore the OC is alive and well even today.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#637
Oct 3, 2015
1,266
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#637
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The law of life's spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2​
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Sorry, that applies to Christ, not you. Read the context!!!!

The law of the Spirit of life is the power of the Spirit, that was "in Christ Jesus" (not in you). Hence what Christ did saved sinners from "the law of sin" (the sin nature) and the death penalty from under law. Try again...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#638
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
#638
Roberth said:
No!

Ex 34:28 "And he (God) wrote on the tablets of stone the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Click to expand...
The old covenant had conditions Israel had to follow. Those conditions were the law of Moses.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#640
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
#640
Roberth said:


Baloney!

If you haven't accepted Christ you are under the law. You are under the terms of the OC, which are, "obey & live", "disobey & die". Since all have sinned then all stand condemned, under law, to eternal damnation. This is our predicament before Christ.

Again, Gal 3:22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

When you accept the gospel (which I have been presenting) you move from under law (the Old Covenant) to under grace.

Everyone who rejects Christ is under law. And in the judgment the law will be their judge. They will not be covered by the righteousness of Christ.

You are beating the drums of dispensationalism, which is a heresy. Nowhere does it teach that the Jews were saved under the OC and the Gentile under the NC. We are saved in Christ, period! Both Jew and Gentile can find only one way to heaven and that is through or "in Christ". Therefore the OC is alive and well even today.
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Gentiles were never a part of the old covenant. Believing in Christ doesn't put them there.

​Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:11-12​
 
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