How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?

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Oct 3, 2015
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Gentiles were never a part of the old covenant. Believing in Christ doesn't put them there.
I assume you are a Gentile, correct?

Before you accepted Christ what condemned you? In other words from what did you need saving?

If you say "sin" then I'll ask you, "are you without sin"? The answer is no.

So Christ didn't come primarily to save you from sin, but from your transgressions. Transgression of what?????
 
Oct 3, 2015
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So Christ didn't come primarily to save you from sin, but from your transgressions. Transgression of what?????

Paul: "I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." Rom 7:7

"Now before faith came, we were imprisoned under the law until faith would be revealed." Gal 3:23
 
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Oct 3, 2015
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Paul: "I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." Rom 7:7

"Now before faith came, we were imprisoned under the law until faith would be revealed." Gal 3:23
So before you believed God's law placed you in prison awaiting the judgment where you would be "cursed" because of your sins.

 
Oct 3, 2015
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I assume you are a Gentile, correct?

Before you accepted Christ what condemned you? In other words from what did you need saving?

If you say "sin" then I'll ask you, "are you without sin"? The answer is no.

So Christ didn't come primarily to save you from sin, but from your transgressions. Transgression of what?????
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 in order to redeem (save) those who were under the law, so that we (that is, believers, both Jew & Gentile) might receive adoption as children.

 
Sep 4, 2012
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I assume you are a Gentile, correct?

Before you accepted Christ what condemned you? In other words from what did you need saving?

If you say "sin" then I'll ask you, "are you without sin"? The answer is no.

So Christ didn't come primarily to save you from sin, but from your transgressions. Transgression of what?????
The holy spirit convicted me that I am a sinner. I didn't know the 10 commandments.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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The holy spirit convicted me that I am a sinner. I didn't know the 10 commandments.
But He introduced them to you, didn't he. Otherwise you wouldn't have known you were a sinner, huh?

You need to start thinking rationally.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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I didn't know the 10 commandments.
I don't buy it....The heathens know the difference from right and wrong. They know murder, theft, adultery is wrong (just to name a few). So you had no idea of right from wrong? I don't buy it....
 
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senzi

Guest
The holy spirit convicted me that I am a sinner. I didn't know the 10 commandments.
How can the Holy Spirit convict you, you are a sinner unless the law God requires you to keep has been placed within you?
Only through the law can you become conscious of your sin(Rom 3:20)

The new covenant hinges on not one, but two core points. If it only hinged on Christ's death at calvary you would have a licence to sin, but it does not. The law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart at the point of conversion. Your eyes are then opened, you see your shortfall of obedience to the law placed within you, at that point you have heartfelt conviction of your sin. Before you become a Christian you are a sinner, but in ignorance of that fact. Once you come to Christ the ignorance is removed.
You then know it is wrong to commit adultery, bear false witness, covet, murder etc. You know this is sin in God's sight. There is only one way you can know that in your heart, if the law is placed there

So under the new covenant you can be convicted you are a sinner without reading the literal law of commandments for the law is placed within you, unlike under the old covenant
 
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senzi

Guest
The holy spirit convicted me that I am a sinner. I didn't know the 10 commandments.
Amen, under the new covenant you do not have to read Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5 to be convicted you are a sinner for the law is placed within you:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2cor3:3

It isn't a literal law anymore, the law got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. But that law still exists, but it is within you now
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Amen, under the new covenant you do not have to read Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5 to be convicted you are a sinner for the law is placed within you:

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2cor3:3

It isn't a literal law anymore, the law got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. But that law still exists, but it is within you now
The law was written in our hearts with new letters. The law of GOD is expressed in other ways besides just the 10 commandments. It was so before the law of Moses, and it has been since the spirit was given.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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Only through the law can you become conscious of your sin(Rom 3:20)

Excellent point! "...through the law we become conscious of sin."

Jude 1:14 "The Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his angels 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts (sin)..."

The idea here is the law (which Paul calls holy, see Rom 7:12) is used as a tool so that you might see your need of Christ and be justified through faith in Him. To be just is to stand before God's law, not in yourself, but "in Christ Jesus".
 
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senzi

Guest
The law was written in our hearts with new letters. The law of GOD is expressed in other ways besides just the 10 commandments. It was so before the law of Moses, and it has been since the spirit was given.
I don't disagree it is not just the Ten Commandments written on your mind and placed on your heart. There is much else also you know God does not want you to do. However, those laws have been placed within you. That is why you knew you were a sinner before you had ever read the literal words of the Ten Commandments:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb 10:16&17
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I don't disagree it is not just the Ten Commandments written on your mind and placed on your heart. There is much else also you know God does not want you to do. However, those laws have been placed within you. That is why you knew you were a sinner before you had ever read the literal words of the Ten Commandments:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb 10:16&17
The law of GOD is faith and love. That's how I knew I sinned.
 
S

senzi

Guest

Excellent point! "...through the law we become conscious of sin."

Jude 1:14 "The Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his angels 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts (sin)..."

The idea here is the law (which Paul calls holy, see Rom 7:12) is used as a tool so that you might see your need of Christ and be justified through faith in Him. To be just is to stand before God's law, not in yourself, but "in Christ Jesus".
Exactly the law should be the tool that leads us to look to Christ, for we cannot be saved by striving to obey it for we cannot reach the pass mark to be righteous under it(perfection)
Unfortunately, far too many become Christians, and instead of looking to Christ, they look to the law and spend their lives trying to make themselves holy enough to attain Heaven. They are then relying on works of the law to attain Heaven, something Paul pleads for Christians not to do
 
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senzi

Guest
The law of GOD is faith and love. That's how I knew I sinned.
Unfortunately, many debates on websites such as these are futile, for many will not yield when they are wrong, it would be unthinkable for them to do so. So I will withdraw from our discussion