The Charismatic movement?

[Blain]

So I have never known what the Charismatic movement is and more than a few ppl have thought I myself was a part of it and then I keep seeing posts on another forum of ppl putting great emphasis on supernatural things like speaking in tongues and prophecying divine healing and miracles but I got the sense they were far more focus on those things than God himself so i looked up what the Charismatic movement is and this is what I found

The movement takes its name from the Greek words charis, which is the English transliteration of the Greek word for “grace,” and mata, which is the Greek word meaning “gifts.” Charismata, then, means “grace gifts.” It emphasizes the manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These gifts are also known as the biblical “charisms,” or spiritual gifts which supposedly give an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people. The prominent gifts among these “charisms” are speaking in tongues and prophesying. Charismatics hold that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit given to those in the first-century church may still be experienced and practiced today.

The Charismatic movement is most known for its acceptance of speaking in tongues (also known as glossolalia), divine healing, and prophecies as evidence of the Holy Spirit. Most meetings are for praying and spirited singing, dancing, shouting “in the spirit,” and raising hands and arms in prayer. Also, anointing the sick with oil is often part of the worship service. These are the primary reasons for the movement’s growth and popularity. While growth and popularity are certainly desirable, they cannot be used as a test for truth


Now as for me yes I can easily see God doing this with ppl even in these days as he is a supernatural being and so the supernatural is not uncommon with the believer, but is it just me or do a lot of these Charismatics take it a bit to far?

 

[atwhatcost]

So I have never known what the Charismatic movement is and more than a few ppl have thought I myself was a part of it and then I keep seeing posts on another forum of ppl putting great emphasis on supernatural things like speaking in tongues and prophecying divine healing and miracles but I got the sense they were far more focus on those things than God himself so i looked up what the Charismatic movement is and this is what I found

The movement takes its name from the Greek words charis, which is the English transliteration of the Greek word for “grace,” and mata, which is the Greek word meaning “gifts.” Charismata, then, means “grace gifts.” It emphasizes the manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These gifts are also known as the biblical “charisms,” or spiritual gifts which supposedly give an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people. The prominent gifts among these “charisms” are speaking in tongues and prophesying. Charismatics hold that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit given to those in the first-century church may still be experienced and practiced today.

The Charismatic movement is most known for its acceptance of speaking in tongues (also known as glossolalia), divine healing, and prophecies as evidence of the Holy Spirit. Most meetings are for praying and spirited singing, dancing, shouting “in the spirit,” and raising hands and arms in prayer. Also, anointing the sick with oil is often part of the worship service. These are the primary reasons for the movement’s growth and popularity. While growth and popularity are certainly desirable, they cannot be used as a test for truth


Now as for me yes I can easily see God doing this with ppl even in these days as he is a supernatural being and so the supernatural is not uncommon with the believer, but is it just me or do a lot of these Charismatics take it a bit to far?

A bit too far compared to whom? lol

You're not a stranger on BDF. Don't most of us take it a bit to far often enough?

 

[Blain]

A bit too far compared to whom? lol

You're not a stranger on BDF. Don't most of us take it a bit to far often enough?

Well what I mean is that many of them seem to be more into the hype than God himself like a spiritual high or something. I am all for supernatural(biblical) events and I think that the Charismatics can be good to a point but when it becomes less and less about God as I have seen from of some these charismatic ppl then I think it's an issue.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

I sometimes think Charismatics take the Holy Spirit so far in that their emphasis is so totally on Him that they largely ignore the Father God. My church is Charismatic but we don't get people falling about, barking and generally taking things too far - if this is your meaning lol. I know that some Charismatics do go overboard. I'm afraid I would just walk if that started to happen in my church.

 

[atwhatcost]

Well what I mean is that many of them seem to be more into the hype than God himself like a spiritual high or something. I am all for supernatural(biblical) events and I think that the Charismatics can be good to a point but when it becomes less and less about God as I have seen from of some these charismatic ppl then I think it's an issue.

I say the following as someone who has been doing it too, so please don't take this as a holier-than-thou moment.

Aren't you tired of what's been going on in the BDF lately? Haven't we hashed over "I'm better than they are" WAY too much? And it's so often with a "what's wrong with you" attitude, with lots of "I'm better than you" thrown into the mix, like more whip cream than banana split.

I appreciate we all have our differences. I don't mind if we hash over the differences, but it's not hashing over the differences anymore. It's spitting on anyone who dares to be different.

When I was young, I was Charismatic. I know Charismatics. Many of them are saved. I'm not Charismatic any more, but I'm never going to say they go too far.

When I was young, from what I understand of the definition now, I must have been Emergent. I'm not anymore. I was saved then, and I'm still saved. I'm not going to say Emergent people aren't saved.

I used to believe in pre millennial and then post millennial. I even believed in rapture. I don't believe any of those things anymore, but I don't think that those who do aren't saved.

I used to believe in grace-only. I now believe the Law is something to look at to see who Jesus is. I'm not going to call myself a legalist because I'm not. I also think there's more to God than grace-only. Are Grace-only people not saved? Are legalists not saved? Usually they are. Sometimes they're not.

I'm reformed. Is anyone who isn't reformed not saved? Heaven forbid! Understanding God's word perfectly isn't what saves us. Jesus saves us. Good thing understanding God's word perfectly doesn't save us, because no one does. lol

Honestly? I think this is spending way too much time picking apart other people's fruit. (And remember, I'm not innocent in never doing that.) Can we get back to edifying and encouraging instead? Can we get back to learning? Can we get back to coming together?

And I ask this of you knowing that's your spirit by nature, even before being by supernature. You strike me as someone who was very giving to others even before you were born again, so I'm hoping, of all people, you get what I'm trying to say.

Does it really matter that "those people" are different, just as long as they too are believers?

 

[Jruiz]

Milk

Well what I mean is that many of them seem to be more into the hype than God himself like a spiritual high or something. I am all for supernatural(biblical) events and I think that the Charismatics can be good to a point but when it becomes less and less about God as I have seen from of some these charismatic ppl then I think it's an issue.

I think it depends on the individual blain...what's taking it to far? Everyone has their own way of praying or worshipping God. If I took my shoe's off,annointed my face with oil,put me face to the ground,seeking the face of God...waiting for him to appear like he did to Moses...is that taking it to far? I don't think so...but most of you probably would..what you need to understand is what you may see in the open is differant than what's done in secret...some people spend hours with God in their prayer closets....

 

[Blain]

I say the following as someone who has been doing it too, so please don't take this as a holier-than-thou moment.

Aren't you tired of what's been going on in the BDF lately? Haven't we hashed over "I'm better than they are" WAY too much? And it's so often with a "what's wrong with you" attitude, with lots of "I'm better than you" thrown into the mix, like more whip cream than banana split.

I appreciate we all have our differences. I don't mind if we hash over the differences, but it's not hashing over the differences anymore. It's spitting on anyone who dares to be different.

When I was young, I was Charismatic. I know Charismatics. Many of them are saved. I'm not Charismatic any more, but I'm never going to say they go too far.

When I was young, from what I understand of the definition now, I must have been Emergent. I'm not anymore. I was saved then, and I'm still saved. I'm not going to say Emergent people aren't saved.

I used to believe in pre millennial and then post millennial. I even believed in rapture. I don't believe any of those things anymore, but I don't think that those who do aren't saved.

I used to believe in grace-only. I now believe the Law is something to look at to see who Jesus is. I'm not going to call myself a legalist because I'm not. I also think there's more to God than grace-only. Are Grace-only people not saved? Are legalists not saved? Usually they are. Sometimes they're not.

I'm reformed. Is anyone who isn't reformed not saved? Heaven forbid! Understanding God's word perfectly isn't what saves us. Jesus saves us. Good thing understanding God's word perfectly doesn't save us, because no one does. lol

Honestly? I think this is spending way too much time picking apart other people's fruit. (And remember, I'm not innocent in never doing that.) Can we get back to edifying and encouraging instead? Can we get back to learning? Can we get back to coming together?

And I ask this of you knowing that's your spirit by nature, even before being by supernature. You strike me as someone who was very giving to others even before you were born again, so I'm hoping, of all people, you get what I'm trying to say.

Does it really matter that "those people" are different, just as long as they too are believers?

If that is how my post came across I apologize I never intended to put down others or think I am any better than the next, and I probably should have mentioned that I don't think all charismatics take it too far but I have noticed that some do.

Besides I have no room to even think for second I am any better than anyone else, in fact I make it a point to be less than everyone else because I admire how Jesus was the king of kings the Lord of Lords and yet took on the role of a humble servant, also you are correct in saying I was very giving to others even before I was saved I was not allowed to have my own money because I gave it ppl and yes ppl did take advantage of my kindness and in all honesty naive nature but I just liked to help ppl. The bdf is indeed a place of war and judgement I have seen even the most mature of believers lose their cool here but as I always say the light shines brightest in the darkness

 

[PeterJens]

The movement

I can tell you experience of this movement back in the 1976 when I was a student.
I went to an open brethren church, who had a group of people who used to meet for prayer and fellowship. They had opened up to the Lord and he had "baptised" them in the Spirit and they experienced a different type of experience than they had before. They wanted everyone else to have a similar experience and were very enthusiastic about their experience.

I went to a meeting in a big church. There was singing in the spirit, which sounded like angels singing to the Lord. It was not planned or anything. These people came from all the evangelical denominations but had this experience in common. They did not quite know what to do, because it went beyond the simple boundaries they had put up.

In my church now I know two people who remember those days, they are in their 70's and 80's. The impression was the elation and spirituality were fantastic, but the depth of maturity failed. Now this whole wave of experience became called the charismatic movement, though the people often stayed within their denominations and theology, so christianity + gifts.

The groups I met that came out of the churches tended to be extreme and did not last long, because they chucked out basic discipline for the sake of spiritual experience, which when combined with human nature often does not end well.

I was torn between calling it a distration, a real experience or just another teaching to the church that God is so much greater than theology and denomination.

 

[shotgunner]

Charismatics are as diverse as any denomination. I attend a non-denominational.

I don't have any problem with people getting as excited about God as they want. I think it becomes clear if someone is looking for attention and should be addressed but I encourage all to get boisterous in and during worship.

The only thing "taking it too far" would mean to me is if everyone got so caught up that there was never any time to study God's word and gain knowledge. With knowledge comes maturity, and maturity will prevent any of the concerns that people have that would be considered "taking it too far".

 

[maxwel]

Plagiarism.

Blain,

When you copy, word for word, from other sources, without citing the source, that is what we call plagiarism.

Everything in your OP was copy/pasted directly from other sources.

From now on, please cite your your sources, and use italics or quotes for the copied material...
so we will know it was copied, and it won't give us the impression it was your own original research.


We're not picking on you.
This is what is expected of everyone.

 

[atwhatcost]

If that is how my post came across I apologize I never intended to put down others or think I am any better than the next, and I probably should have mentioned that I don't think all charismatics take it too far but I have noticed that some do.

Besides I have no room to even think for second I am any better than anyone else, in fact I make it a point to be less than everyone else because I admire how Jesus was the king of kings the Lord of Lords and yet took on the role of a humble servant, also you are correct in saying I was very giving to others even before I was saved I was not allowed to have my own money because I gave it ppl and yes ppl did take advantage of my kindness and in all honesty naive nature but I just liked to help ppl. The bdf is indeed a place of war and judgement I have seen even the most mature of believers lose their cool here but as I always say the light shines brightest in the darkness

Nuts! You misunderstood. I got this tough on this post because I absolutely know you're NOT that kind of person. I am skeptical by nature, and yet I cannot be like that with you because you are kind and humble all the time. I did that for fear you would join in, simply because you do prefer to see the best in people, even with your life experience. My fear is you may have picked up the critical spirit of many of us on this board, me included. And I don't want you to become like us. I don't want you to pick up our bad habits.

You aren't like that and yet it feels like you're headed that way.

And, I know this is something like Mom telling me never to smoke while she smoked, but as I'm telling you not to go there, and I'm working on me stopping that too (with God's help of course.)

Kind of like hearing my younger brother say "crap" for the first time, perfectly aware he could have picked up that word from me. (Oh, and that was the moment I started working on my cursing. 30 years later, and younger brother says worse than crap now, but at least he doesn't sound like a sailor on shore leave. But, I really have gotten away from cursing.) I do see you as my younger brother and do worry I'll pass on bad habits to you. I know I'm not your only example, (thank God), but I come from a family with six siblings, so none of us are each others' only examples either. We still picked up habits from each other.

 

[wattie]

Real churches don't have beginnings just from individuals saying 'let's start a church'. Real churches start from people who have the right authority from Jesus to plant churches.

The Charismatic movement is full to brim of churches that have started from murky means IMO.

The churches in the New Testament were planted by men who were members of biblically sound, God owned churches. Churches start churches.

Charismatic movement? Maybe business men starting social clubs! For many of them.

 

[breno785au]

Plagiarism.

Blain,

When you copy, word for word, from other sources, without citing the source, that is what we call plagiarism.

Everything in your OP was copy/pasted directly from other sources.

From now on, please cite your your sources, and use italics or quotes for the copied material...
so we will know it was copied, and it won't give us the impression it was your own original research.


We're not picking on you.
This is what is expected of everyone.

Lol your right, though you can tell its not his words haha

 

[DP]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone here, but this is not... a laughing matter:

Some of these manifestations in those Churches visited by Rodney Brown have also been seen happening among eastern pagan Hindu religious practices, but they call it Kundalini, things like uncontrollable shaking, laughing, rolling on the ground, etc.

Witness by an ex-Charismatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1HC-3s3uI

Before brethren start to think these manifestations are from The Holy Spirit, they maybe should have those Charismatics try to explain why those manifestations also happen among eastern religious cults like Hinduism, etc., i.e., religions that do NOT recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the ONLY Way of Salvation.

Furthermore, on the idea of speaking in tongues, the actual Acts 2 Scripture in the Greek reveals EVERYONE present on Pentecost UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE DIALECTS what the Apostles were speaking! That means whatever region you come from, the very dialect of the language of that area manifested when you heard the Apostles speak by The Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

1 Tim 4:1-2
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV

 

[DP]

Another thing about some of these manifestations, one of the things those Churches explain when people fall backwards, they say that's The Holy Spirit doing that.

So I went to God's Word to check it out, like we are to do...

The ONLY examples I found of anyone falling backwards because of The Holy Spirit were enemies of Christ. When the armed band sent by the Pharisees to sieze Jesus asked for Him ...

John 18:5-6
5 They answered Him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus saith unto them, "I am He." And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as He had said unto them, "I am He", they went backward, and fell to the ground.
KJV

 

[Willie-T]

Plagiarism.

Blain,

When you copy, word for word, from other sources, without citing the source, that is what we call plagiarism.

Everything in your OP was copy/pasted directly from other sources.

From now on, please cite your your sources, and use italics or quotes for the copied material...
so we will know it was copied, and it won't give us the impression it was your own original research.


We're not picking on you.
This is what is expected of everyone.

Uh....... I'm pretty sure I clearly read where he said, "This is what I found."

 

[Blain]

Nuts! You misunderstood. I got this tough on this post because I absolutely know you're NOT that kind of person. I am skeptical by nature, and yet I cannot be like that with you because you are kind and humble all the time. I did that for fear you would join in, simply because you do prefer to see the best in people, even with your life experience. My fear is you may have picked up the critical spirit of many of us on this board, me included. And I don't want you to become like us. I don't want you to pick up our bad habits.

You aren't like that and yet it feels like you're headed that way.

And, I know this is something like Mom telling me never to smoke while she smoked, but as I'm telling you not to go there, and I'm working on me stopping that too (with God's help of course.)

Kind of like hearing my younger brother say "crap" for the first time, perfectly aware he could have picked up that word from me. (Oh, and that was the moment I started working on my cursing. 30 years later, and younger brother says worse than crap now, but at least he doesn't sound like a sailor on shore leave. But, I really have gotten away from cursing.) I do see you as my younger brother and do worry I'll pass on bad habits to you. I know I'm not your only example, (thank God), but I come from a family with six siblings, so none of us are each others' only examples either. We still picked up habits from each other.

lol well it's not uncommon for me to misunderstand especially if I think I did something wrong, I actually look up to a lot of you as a lot of you have been in this for a long time and I am still a greenhorn only three years in and so I am constantly grabbing everything I can learn from all you when your posting and take into consideration what to take in and what not to.

 

[DP]

And something else, repetition is one of the concepts used in eastern mysticism and hypnotism. The ancient pagans used repetitions in music and drums to create a trance-like state. It did not always accompany the use of drugs. For today, this principle is a major part of the Trance dance music scene, and not all affected are on a drug, but that certainly helps induce that state, and was a major part in many ancient pagan religious rituals (see The Golden Bough).

We all have experienced the day dream state produced by monotonous sounds, like a boring speaker, woke up suddenly out our dream and realized we had nodded off. Science knows things like hypnotic suggestion is real. Even in the '70's a law was passed by congress against subliminal advertising, as the advertising industry was hiding small images in magazine advertisements they had tested knowing would get the attention of our subconscious, but not our conscious awareness. A film frame of Coca-Cola and popcorn was inserted into films at theaters which drove sales up. At department stores, messages at low volumes behind the music saying things like, "do not steal", were added (see the book Subliminal Seduction).

I heard a witness from a close relative about one Church of those who attended. I don't remember what kind of Christian Church they said it was. In the service the music continued to play for almost an hour before the pastor came out. And when he came out he motioned his arm and hand out towards the congregation, and various members there immediately fell backwards on the floor. In the YouTube video above by Andrew Strorm, repetitious drums can be heard in the background. Those things are used as effects to drive up one's emotions, which was the same purpose of the ancient pagans using repetitions in their rituals. But one doesn't even need those things, repetitious prayer can achieve the same trance-like results. Our Lord Jesus commanded us to not do repetitious prayer, remember? (Matt.6:7)

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone here, but this is not... a laughing matter:

Some of these manifestations in those Churches visited by Rodney Brown have also been seen happening among eastern pagan Hindu religious practices, but they call it Kundalini, things like uncontrollable shaking, laughing, rolling on the ground, etc.

Witness by an ex-Charismatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1HC-3s3uI

Before brethren start to think these manifestations are from The Holy Spirit, they maybe should have those Charismatics try to explain why those manifestations also happen among eastern religious cults like Hinduism, etc., i.e., religions that do NOT recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the ONLY Way of Salvation.

Furthermore, on the idea of speaking in tongues, the actual Acts 2 Scripture in the Greek reveals EVERYONE present on Pentecost UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE DIALECTS what the Apostles were speaking! That means whatever region you come from, the very dialect of the language of that area manifested when you heard the Apostles speak by The Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

1 Tim 4:1-2
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV

to make a long story short...the 'kundalini' aspersions are nonsense...basically a really incompetent attempt at comparative religion... the weird stuff that happens in some charismatic circles has no resemblance to -actual- kundalini meditation as it is practiced and experienced by -actual- hindus...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Another thing about some of these manifestations, one of the things those Churches explain when people fall backwards, they say that's The Holy Spirit doing that.

So I went to God's Word to check it out, like we are to do...

The ONLY examples I found of anyone falling backwards because of The Holy Spirit were enemies of Christ. When the armed band sent by the Pharisees to sieze Jesus asked for Him ...

John 18:5-6
5 They answered Him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus saith unto them, "I am He." And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as He had said unto them, "I am He", they went backward, and fell to the ground.
KJV

this is correct...however i am not sure the direction of the falling is all that significant...there have been occasions in charismatic worship where people have fallen forwards...

falling forwards happens once in scripture...in the story of balaam when the holy spirit fills balaam and gives him his final prophecies...