S
senzi
Guest
If you have an open-and not closed mind why not meditate on that, if the answer would interest you.
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If you have an open-and not closed mind why not meditate on that, if the answer would interest you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
We all should be open minded.
The answer of course would be grace.. How else can God be in the presence of a sinner.
T
thebesttrees
Guest
Christ was considered a sinner by the ones who crucified Him. God made Him sin in the eyes of Caiaphas and his corroborators. By His crucifixion and subsequent resurrection we are saved.
The same God that made Jesus sin the eyes of the Jews also did this:
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
| 2 Cor 3:14 | But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. |
To imply that Christ was a sinner, or that sin was instilled into Him, or anything along these lines is simply absurd. And so the explanation that I have given above is much closer to an understanding of the verse than anything else that I have come across.
I
Is
Guest
We need to understand the types and anti-types in the Bible.
The imputation of sin to Jesus Christ was typified in the Old Testament sacrificial system, where the sins of the offerer were symbolically transferred to the animal victim.
If we take at face value what Paul said then Jesus found himself in the same position as anyone else born in sin. This makes Christ a sinner without being born in sin or ever sinning. How can a sinner take away sin? It's utter blasphemy!
Albert Barnes notes on 2 Cor. 5:21, If the declaration that he was made “sin” hamartian (NT:266) does not mean that he was sin itself, or a sinner, or guilty, then it must mean that he was a sin-offering-an offering or a sacrifice for sin; and this is the interpretation which is now generally adopted by expositors; or it must be taken as an abstract for the concrete, and mean that God treated him as if he were a sinner. The former interpretation, that it means that God made him a sin-offering,”
2 Cor. 5:21 “He made him who knew no sin (who was innocent), a sin-offering for us. The word hamartia (NT:266) occurs here twice: in the first place it means sin, i.e. transgression and guilt; and of Christ it is said, He knew no sin, i.e. was innocent.
In the second place, it signifies a sin-offering, or sacrifice for sin, and answers to the chaTa'ah (OT:2401) and chaTa'at (OT:2401) of the Hebrew text; which signifies both sin and sin-offering in a great variety of places in the Pentateuch.
2 Cor. 5:21, If the declaration that he was made “sin” hamartian (NT:266) does not mean that he was sin itself, or a sinner, or guilty, then it must mean that he was a sin-offering-an offering or a sacrifice for sin; and means that God treated him as if he were a sinner.
2 Cor. 5:21 Locke renders this: probably expressing the true sense, “For God hath made him subject to suffering and death, the punishment and consequence of sin, as if he had been a sinner, though he were guilty of no sin.”
Jesus would have been the Azazel from the Hebrew i.e."an entire removal" or "sending away) (Lev.16:8-10).
"All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" Isaiah 53:6"
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T
thebesttrees
Guest
To attach the interpretation of "sin offering" is out of the context of the chapters 4 and 5 of 2 Corinthians. Why add things to the Word of God every time we stumble in our understanding?! The main topic of discussion in these two chapters is sacrifice, death and suffering at the hands of those who do not believe. And this is exactly what Christ accomplished by being considered as SIN by the masses of people. So the reading of the verse is indeed correct as Christ was made sin but in the eyes of the unbelievers who persecuted Him and finally crucified Him.
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Mitspa
Guest
I guess there are some of you guys who just cant accept what the scriptures are really reading? Never heard of Albert Barnes, but he admits that one must read the scriptures in the abstract and not accept them for what they really say. Im not sure why anyone who believes in Gods power and the has some understanding of the mystery of the Cross, would have any issue with the evident reading of the passage? In fact, until folks stop trying to use mans wisdom to understand the mystery and power of God, they will never really understand the truth of Gods ways.
Having said that...I don't see this as an issue that would deny salvation, but it might hinder some from walking in the truth of what God did with our sin?
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Mitspa
Guest
To imply that I suggested in any way that Christ was a "sinner" is just dishonest ...but the clear fact is that our sin was imputed to Him.....That's biblical fact
I would not call it adding or stumbling when the Hebrew OT writings use different words for sin and sin offering, and the Greek translations of those OT verses that use sin offering simply use the Greek word for sin, just as 2 Corinthians 5:17 does.
I
Is
Guest
The question has always been, was sin "infused" or "imparted" to Jesus. You're saying our sin was "imputed" to Jesus, yet you're speaking as if it was "infused". Look them up the two are as different as night and day.
I think the example of Isaac carrying the wood on his back for his sacrifice is a perfect example.
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Mitspa
Guest
A spiritual being is an object and would be described as a noun...the devil is a spirit...God is a Spirit..we know they have action and effect ...
you have to deny the clear reading of the passage to believe as you do... I often agree with you...but your just wrong here
Ro 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
This is clearly a spiritual force called "sin" that is in the flesh..clearly its is being used as a noun..not a verb
Very interesting indeed.. Can you explain in a bit more detail what this spirit force is and how it operates in non chrisians aswell as christians ..
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Mitspa
Guest
Not sure how I could say much more than what Paul wrote here? "no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" is a truth that anyone who has tried to obey God, should be able to understand.
Yes I understand what Paul is saying.. I would like for you to clarify what you are saying.
What is this spirit force thats called sin? how does it operater, what is it? how does it affect Christians and non christians alike?
I don't think it's a spiritual force, I think it's human flesh. God who knew no sin was made sin when he took on human flesh.
That seems like a rather gnostic idea, i.e. that flesh itself is inherently evil.
The flesh is inherently evil, that's why the flesh can't inherit the kingdom.
That's right but he faced the same lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life that all of us face but he overcame the temptations because he was God.
The longings of the flesh and eyes, and the vainglory of life are simply temptations of the flesh. Evil doesn't happen until we entertain them, and then sin enters. Christ never entertained the temptations to let sin enter his life. Therefore, there was no sin in his flesh.
K
Kefa54
Guest
bore-endure, refer to supporting the burden of something distressing,
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Isaiah 53:12...Therefore I will give Him the many as a portion, and He will receive the mighty as spoil, because He submitted Himself to death, and was counted among the rebels; yet He bore the sin of many and interceded for the rebels."
Kefa
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Isaiah 53:12...Therefore I will give Him the many as a portion, and He will receive the mighty as spoil, because He submitted Himself to death, and was counted among the rebels; yet He bore the sin of many and interceded for the rebels."
Kefa