The Charismatic movement?
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A sentence a friend of mine wrote in a blog (or maybe it was one of his books.... can't remember), concerning some of this...... "People are often afraid not to be afraid." They often don't seem to be able to see any God but a disconnected entity hidden on a far away cloud... not really ever touching nor affecting our lives. They can't fathom a loving God wrapping His arms around us.
Firstly, this is not about whether one believes in miracles by The Holy Spirit or not. It's about being able to recognize the difference between signs, those from God vs. those from the devil.
When our Lord Jesus cast out evil spirits, were the victims not healed, even of palsies, and able to stand whole? If in those Churches people that fall to floor, making animal noises and shaking uncontrollably is a sign of The Holy Spirit, then how is it those are instead not standing to show they've been made whole like the New Testament examples? How is barking like an animal throbbing on the floor a show of edification of our Lord Jesus Christ?
Which is a sign of confusion in the Church according to Apostle Paul, someone rolling around in the floor, jumping up and down uncontrollably, laughing uncontrollably, running up and down the aisle out of control, or someone in full possession of their senses and self-control? The former things are a sign of 'confusion'. The latter is a sign of peace, as it is in all of true Churches of the saints according to Apostle Paul (1 Cor.14:33).
In the New Testament examples, the victim with an evil spirit prior... to it being cast out was not in control of their own body (Luke 4). The opposite of that after Jesus cast out the evil spirit was a person made whole, having come back to their senses and in control.
Per Acts 2, especially per the Greek manuscripts, when the Apostles spoke the cloven tongue on Pentecost, all those peoples present from different countries with different languages 'understood' them in their own dialect (dialectos) of the town they were born. How is that comparable to the claimed tongues those Churches say are from The Holy Spirit??? It is not. What those Churches claim is a different... sign outside that Acts 2 Scripture.
The events of uncontrollable laughter, rolling around impersonating an animal, and shaking uncontrollably, which also occur among eastern religions like Hinduism, having nothing to do with Christ and His Church. Yet, there they are, those same type of signs manifesting in those western churches, which are actually beth-avens, i.e., houses of vanity.
When our Lord Jesus cast out evil spirits, were the victims not healed, even of palsies, and able to stand whole? If in those Churches people that fall to floor, making animal noises and shaking uncontrollably is a sign of The Holy Spirit, then how is it those are instead not standing to show they've been made whole like the New Testament examples? How is barking like an animal throbbing on the floor a show of edification of our Lord Jesus Christ?
Which is a sign of confusion in the Church according to Apostle Paul, someone rolling around in the floor, jumping up and down uncontrollably, laughing uncontrollably, running up and down the aisle out of control, or someone in full possession of their senses and self-control? The former things are a sign of 'confusion'. The latter is a sign of peace, as it is in all of true Churches of the saints according to Apostle Paul (1 Cor.14:33).
In the New Testament examples, the victim with an evil spirit prior... to it being cast out was not in control of their own body (Luke 4). The opposite of that after Jesus cast out the evil spirit was a person made whole, having come back to their senses and in control.
Per Acts 2, especially per the Greek manuscripts, when the Apostles spoke the cloven tongue on Pentecost, all those peoples present from different countries with different languages 'understood' them in their own dialect (dialectos) of the town they were born. How is that comparable to the claimed tongues those Churches say are from The Holy Spirit??? It is not. What those Churches claim is a different... sign outside that Acts 2 Scripture.
The events of uncontrollable laughter, rolling around impersonating an animal, and shaking uncontrollably, which also occur among eastern religions like Hinduism, having nothing to do with Christ and His Church. Yet, there they are, those same type of signs manifesting in those western churches, which are actually beth-avens, i.e., houses of vanity.
Oh I agree, there are far too many circus acts going on in far too many churches. Like the one Paul told to put a leash on it.
But Paul didn't tell them to stop altogether. No, he instructed them on proper place and time.
So, because some churches don't understand proper place and time, you dismiss it all?
That's just as wrong as the church in Corinth was.
But Paul didn't tell them to stop altogether. No, he instructed them on proper place and time.
So, because some churches don't understand proper place and time, you dismiss it all?
That's just as wrong as the church in Corinth was.
And your point???
Tell you what. I'll say this, and you can do whatever you want with it. But remember, this I speak is... God's Word as written:
The cloven tongue of Pentecost manifested through the Apostles by The Holy Spirit was 'understood' as known languages of the world when all the people present heard them speak. That is the fact of the Acts 2 Scripture. This is the Scriptural fact. No changing it. That is what we must... rely on, what's written in Acts 2.
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Yet the tongues you speak of, it requires an interpreter, because the majority present CANNOT understand it.
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Another Scriptural fact: in 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14, the word "unknown" is NOT in the original Greek texts the KJV translators used. The KJV translators added that word "unknown". The word that is there, is simply the sole Greek word glossa' (rendered as "tongue"), which means known languages of the world that people speak.
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Yet those you are showing support for that claim to speak an "unknown tongue" believe it is NOT manifested as known languages of the world.
The true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost is manifest today only... when all present understand what is spoken in their language dialect of birth. That's is the evidence of Acts 2. And the word dialect in the Greek is very, very... specific. It means even the slang speech each person uses in their own language dialect of where they were born.
I strongly believe the 'true' cloven tongue still manifests in this way... when it is necessary to witness The Gospel to peoples of different languages that the evangelist does not know. Most of these modern day examples have been in nations outside the western Christian nations. Everyone heard in their own... language of birth what was being spoken, just as it was on the day of Pentecost, as the people who heard the Apostles proclaimed how they heard them speak about "the wonderful works of God" in their own languages.
That's my witness to you. It's up to you what you chose to do with it.
Tell you what. I'll say this, and you can do whatever you want with it. But remember, this I speak is... God's Word as written:
The cloven tongue of Pentecost manifested through the Apostles by The Holy Spirit was 'understood' as known languages of the world when all the people present heard them speak. That is the fact of the Acts 2 Scripture. This is the Scriptural fact. No changing it. That is what we must... rely on, what's written in Acts 2.
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Yet the tongues you speak of, it requires an interpreter, because the majority present CANNOT understand it.
-----------------------------------------------
Another Scriptural fact: in 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14, the word "unknown" is NOT in the original Greek texts the KJV translators used. The KJV translators added that word "unknown". The word that is there, is simply the sole Greek word glossa' (rendered as "tongue"), which means known languages of the world that people speak.
-----------------------------------------------
Yet those you are showing support for that claim to speak an "unknown tongue" believe it is NOT manifested as known languages of the world.
The true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost is manifest today only... when all present understand what is spoken in their language dialect of birth. That's is the evidence of Acts 2. And the word dialect in the Greek is very, very... specific. It means even the slang speech each person uses in their own language dialect of where they were born.
I strongly believe the 'true' cloven tongue still manifests in this way... when it is necessary to witness The Gospel to peoples of different languages that the evangelist does not know. Most of these modern day examples have been in nations outside the western Christian nations. Everyone heard in their own... language of birth what was being spoken, just as it was on the day of Pentecost, as the people who heard the Apostles proclaimed how they heard them speak about "the wonderful works of God" in their own languages.
That's my witness to you. It's up to you what you chose to do with it.
Your last statements are an attempt at absolutism.
If you actually had read my last few posts, you should have understood that I very much believe in signs and miracles that our Lord works through us by The Holy Spirit.
Does that mean I believe in counterfeit signs that have no parallel in God's Holy Writ?? That's actually the question you ought to be asking, and not me, but yourself.
If you actually had read my last few posts, you should have understood that I very much believe in signs and miracles that our Lord works through us by The Holy Spirit.
Does that mean I believe in counterfeit signs that have no parallel in God's Holy Writ?? That's actually the question you ought to be asking, and not me, but yourself.
E
yup, yup and yup
so what
the dead in Christ are not rising in churches where there is a one hour service and everyone checks their watches
don't you know that the devil makes it his business to attack and bring down GENUINE moves of the Holy Spirit?
Aren't you aware that people are constantly falsely accused...like Jesus was...because they are real witnesses of the power of our risen Lord?
I know plenty about evil spirits....I don't pray by the power of a demon and neither do I or have I and with God's grace, neither will I EVER do such thing
Do good folks go off on a tanget? yeah they do
Do good intentions get derailed? yeah they do
Do honest folks get led astray by deceiving spirits? yeah they do
AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE WARNED MANY TIMES IN SCRIPTURE AND ALSO WHY WE ARE NOT FORBIDDEN TO SPEAK IN TONGUES, BUT RATHER TO DO SO IN ORDER WHEN IN CHURCH AND WE ARE ALSO TOLD TO TEST THE SPIRITS
I have seen again and again where the Holy Spirit will start to move on a congregation because several may be praying silently in tongues that the dead church come to life...and almost without exception, that will be shut down and then you leave with a grieving heart because you know what happened
God is patient...but there is coming a time when people are going to long for that move of the Spirit of God on their hearts and they will look in vain because the controlling pastor and or elders never let it happen
God is not mocked...you do sow what you reap...and if someone sows negativity and quenches the Holy Spirit time after time, He will leave and that church will have Ichabod written over the doorframe but the folks inside will be so dead, they won't know it
I've seen more than the average person...but I will go so far as to say I am not the average person and if that is so, then it is God who has worked in me
Today, if you hear His voice, don't harden your hearts!
E
DP
Originally Posted by ember
I have been ..call it Charasmatic if you want...since I was 18 and saved since 5
Why do you mention someone as contraversial as Rodney Brown?
Do you have any conception of how many folks actually speak in tongues and worship Jesus at the same time?
If we are going to talk about abuse, then please, let's not forget to whop on the Catholic Church and pediophile priests...and plenty of wrong doing in Baptist circels and every other denom that can be mentionned
it's a wild world and let's not forget, that demonic spirits can also castigate and make what is actually of God, as though it were demonic
That, is where discernement comes in
Get some today!
**************************************
DP says:
And your point???
‘For in him I live and move and have my being.’
24“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.28‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[SUP]b[/SUP] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ Acts17
Why do you mention someone as contraversial as Rodney Brown?
Do you have any conception of how many folks actually speak in tongues and worship Jesus at the same time?
If we are going to talk about abuse, then please, let's not forget to whop on the Catholic Church and pediophile priests...and plenty of wrong doing in Baptist circels and every other denom that can be mentionned
it's a wild world and let's not forget, that demonic spirits can also castigate and make what is actually of God, as though it were demonic
That, is where discernement comes in
Get some today!
**************************************
DP says:
And your point???
‘For in him I live and move and have my being.’
24“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.28‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[SUP]b[/SUP] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ Acts17
E
Then don't watch it!
I certainly wouldn't if it scared me.
Aren't you being just a little sensationalistic? Does it scare you or are you just trying to negate a genuine move of God?
There are plenty of fakes and I don't know why folks are so surprised when the Bible has plenty to say about it!
I would like to see a video of a one hour service where everything is pre-arranged and the Holy Spirit has been shut out
That is death...read Genesis...where did Adam get his life from? God breathed it into him and in the same way, we have life throught the Spirit of God!
E
Now let's be truthful here. I said no such thing.
God has not stated you must obey me...rather, you must obey Him
There are many churches who have left the truth...you are free to go to any one of those if you prefer to listen to men...there are still saved people in those churches as well
You don't have to speak in tongues to be saved