He became sin...???

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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The longings of the flesh and eyes, and the vainglory of life are simply temptations of the flesh. Evil doesn't happen until we entertain them, and then sin enters. Christ never entertained the temptations to let sin enter his life. Therefore, there was no sin in his flesh.
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The bible says he was tempted exactly like we are but he didn't sin. Jesus while in heaven was not tempted, the only way he could be tempted was to put on this body of death.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
 
KJV1611 said:
The bible says he was tempted exactly like we are but he didn't sin. Jesus while in heaven was not tempted, the only way he could be tempted was to put on this body of death.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
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The body of itself is not sinful or evil. It is the mind that succumbs to temptation that causes the body to sin. Christ had the mind and spirit of GOD, so he was able to overcome the temptations of the body.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The body of itself is not sinful or evil. It is the mind that succumbs to temptation that causes the body to sin. Christ had the mind and spirit of GOD, so he was able to overcome the temptations of the body.
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There's more to being human than being born into a flesh and blood body. The flesh and blood body also comes with lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. Are you saying that Jesus didn't have the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life warring against the law of his mind?

Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
 
KJV1611 said:
There's more to being human than being born into a flesh and blood body. The flesh and blood body also comes with lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. Are you saying that Jesus didn't have the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life warring against the law of his mind?

Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
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The correct translation of the word lust is longing. The longings of the flesh are not sin. It's only when we entertain them in our minds that the longing leads to sin. Christ kept himself pure because he had a pure mind and spirit.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The correct translation of the word lust is longing. The longings of the flesh are not sin. It's only when we entertain them in our minds that the longing leads to sin. Christ kept himself pure because he had a pure mind and spirit.
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Was Jesus tempted by the longings of the flesh?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Of course.
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Jesus wasn't tempted because he was God, he was tempted because he was human. This human flesh desires sin.. Jesus was just as human as you or I, his flesh desired sin but his mind overcame it. If that's not true, then Jesus wasn't tempted. You can't be tempted by something you don't desire.
 
KJV1611 said:
Jesus wasn't tempted because he was God, he was tempted because he was human. This human flesh desires sin.. Jesus was just as human as you or I, his flesh desired sin but his mind overcame it. If that's not true, then Jesus wasn't tempted. You can't be tempted by something you don't desire.
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I agree 100%, but there was no sin in Christ; not in his body, mind or spirit. Desire is not sin.
 
phil36 said:
Yes I understand what Paul is saying.. I would like for you to clarify what you are saying.

What is this spirit force thats called sin? how does it operater, what is it? how does it affect Christians and non christians alike?
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I don't go beyond what is written... clearly from what Paul is teaching "sin"-noun is acting in his members to "sin"- verb


If you understand what Paul is saying? you should understand the point Im making about a object noun called "sin" that has power to cause someone who don't want to sin to sin... I think common sense would reason this is some sort of "spiritual" object or force in the flesh....
 
KJV1611 said:
I don't think it's a spiritual force, I think it's human flesh. God who knew no sin was made sin when he took on human flesh.
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Christ had no sin..in His Flesh... He took our sin upon Himself at the Cross...that being a spiritual force of some manner
 
Mitspa said:
Christ had no sin..in His Flesh... He took our sin upon Himself at the Cross...that being a spiritual force of some manner
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Romans 8:3 says that God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh which literally means he was made of sinful flesh which is exactly the same as saying he was made sin. Moses lifted up the serpent.... Jesus in a flesh body. The serpent represents the sinful nature of the flesh. The serpent was Jesus before and after he was put on the pole.

I love this one too, this is so cool! As moses lifted up the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up... notice it doesn't say the Son of God must be lifted up, it says the Son of man must be lifted up which is pointing to human part of Jesus.

Joh_3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The more I read the bible the more in awe of it I am... It's shear perfection, accurate beyond belief!
 
KJV1611 said:
Romans 8:3 says that God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh which literally means he was made of sinful flesh which is exactly the same as saying he was made sin. Moses lifted up the serpent.... Jesus in a flesh body. The serpent represents the sinful nature of the flesh. The serpent was Jesus before and after he was put on the pole.

I love this one too, this is so cool! As moses lifted up the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up... notice it doesn't say the Son of God must be lifted up, it says the Son of man must be lifted up which is pointing to human part of Jesus.

Joh_3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The more I read the bible the more in awe of it I am... It's shear perfection, accurate beyond belief!
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No ..it does not mean He was made of sinful flesh! "likeness" means that it was a body like that of sinful flesh. (they was no sin in Him, He took our sin) That was the serpent that was judged ...Our sin...
 
KJV1611 said:
Romans 8:3 says that God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh which literally means he was made of sinful flesh which is exactly the same as saying he was made sin. Moses lifted up the serpent.... Jesus in a flesh body. The serpent represents the sinful nature of the flesh. The serpent was Jesus before and after he was put on the pole.

I love this one too, this is so cool! As moses lifted up the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up... notice it doesn't say the Son of God must be lifted up, it says the Son of man must be lifted up which is pointing to human part of Jesus.

Joh_3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The more I read the bible the more in awe of it I am... It's shear perfection, accurate beyond belief!
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I do not believe Jesus became sin until the cross. This separation from God was the cup he wished to pass.

Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, not in sinful flesh. I see this as meaning a body just as we have yet without the propensity for sin since he wasn't born under the curse of Adam's sin. This is why Jesus had to be born of a virgin.
 
Mitspa said:
I don't go beyond what is written... clearly from what Paul is teaching "sin"-noun is acting in his members to "sin"- verb


If you understand what Paul is saying? you should understand the point Im making about a object noun called "sin" that has power to cause someone who don't want to sin to sin... I think common sense would reason this is some sort of "spiritual" object or force in the flesh....
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Have you considered the possibility yet that calling it a sin offering is not going beyond what is written, and your position may be the result of not understanding the Greek language?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Have you considered the possibility yet that calling it a sin offering is not going beyond what is written, and your position may be the result of not understanding the Greek language?
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Well I am very able in the Greek..in fact have started a book on basic biblical Greek (which one day I plan to finish) my point being I have spent many years in study of the Greek...That's why I can say with a certain confidence "that the passage reads as it clearly reads" to add a word to scripture where it is clearly not intended is something others might do...but I will not :)
 
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Originally Posted by Mitspa A spiritual being is an object and would be described as a noun...the devil is a spirit...God is a Spirit..we know they have action and effect ...

you have to deny the clear reading of the passage to believe as you do... I often agree with you...but your just wrong here :)

Ro 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.


This is clearly a spiritual force called "sin" that is in the flesh..clearly its is being used as a noun..not a verb
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I have quoted above the post that you wrote and I was refering to. I understand clearly what aul is saying especially as we all as christians experience exacly what he is talking about.

I understand fully that we are spiritual beings (both body and spirit), and that si is indeed a spiritual issue. But that is totally different fro saying, as you have 'A spiritual force' and now in the spirit force or object. If you are correct and sin is a siritual force..then we could render verses like this:

For the wages of A spiritual force(sin) is death!!!

As I say, I understand what Paul is saying, but I would like you to clarify what you think Paul is saying (I know sin is a noun etc). Paul says alot about sin as does all of scripture...but to say that sin is a 'spiritual force' or even ' a spiritual object' I'm not convinced by your reasoning. Thats why I would like you to clarify.

Personally I can't say I have heard or read of sin as being 'a spiritual force' or 'spiritual object' before, however, sin is spiritual. Help me understand, is this spiritual force inherited? is it imputed? is it persoanl?

You say you dare not go beyond Paul..but I suspect you already may have.
 
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