I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[Utah]

feel free to ask me any questions

How do the bread and wine turn into the actual body and blood of Christ?

 

[fordman]

Just as predicted Blain, the anti-Catholics are coming out in droves with their bias personal opinions of the Catholic Chruch and her teachings. As you can see, these folks and others who claim to have been Catholic and have left the Catholic Church are consummed with the need to prove that the Catholic Church is an apostate Church. I would even go as far as challenging ther knowledge reguarding the Catholic faith with a couple of simple questions.　

In the Gospel of Matthew Christ promises to be with His Church all days even to the end of the world. If that is true then there must have existed since the time of Christ - true Christians who believed correctly and practiced their faith correctly, correct? I doubt Christ would promise to be with apostates. Since the time of Christ Catholics can name many people who believe as we believe and practiced their faith as we practice it.

I challenge those who accuse the Catholic Church of being a false Church to name only 3 historically verifiable people in each century who believe as they believe and practiced their faith as they practice it. If these folks are correct then there must have been 'true Christians' in each century who believed and practiced as they do. This challenge leaves us with 3 possibilities: (1) There were Christians who believed and practiced as they do (Name 3 per century) (2) Those real Christians through the centuries were Catholics. (3) Or Christ lied. Which is it? None of us thinks Christ lied. Catholics can list countless people in all centuries who attended Mass, believed in the 'Real Presence', etc. Now these folks that challengr the Catholic faith should be able to find 3 people who believed as they did, don't you think?
　

Now if they cannot identify these people then I submit they didn't exist. There is a historical record of the pagans, the heretics, the Mohammedans, etc. The only people for whom there is no historical record is this remnant of true Christians who believed and practiced like those doing the challenging. True Christians would not be much of a 'light to the world' if nobody even knew they existed. I have yet to hear anyone other than a Catholics fully address the questions above. So in closing Blain, lets see how they respond and make your own judgment
　

Pax Christi

 

[ember]

It Is easier to bash them than to take a good look at ourselves.

Luke 18;11
God, I thank You that I'm not like other people--greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.



Kefa

slow down there big fellah!

who is bashing them?

I grew up in a province where most are Catholic....I have also exchanged quite a bit with people who are Catholic around and in Christian forums (not this one)

FYI, many of them are very quick to argue or debate point...NOT from scripture...but from Origen or some such because that is how they are taught

IMO, it amounts to brainwashing...again, please remember I kinda know what I'm writing about...my dad was brought up Catholic...he did become a believer but sure didn't learn about salvation in the Catholic church even though he was an altar boy and sang in the choir...my brother married a girl raised Catholic and her dad used to frequent the Jesuits...an extreme arm of Catholicism...and even though she became a believer also, the teaching, short of God delivering a person from it, really sticks throughout your life

Just because someone might warn against their teachings has nothing to do with bashing folks or assuming we, you, me, they or us are better

That, is not salvation at all. Of course many Catholics are believers! Of course they are!

But there are some very very dangerous teachings coming out of Rome

I don't see this as an I am better than them issue...it's pretty much like all wrong teaching as far as I am concerned

Doesn't mean no one is saved in that group or in any other group that deviates from what most believers think is how we should believe

 

[Magenta]

1. There is no express mention of the baptism of infants in the New Testament.
2. "It is difficult *i.e. impossible* to give strict proof from the scriptures in favour of it. [infant baptism]" (Catholic Dictionary, p. 61).
3. "Ecclesiastical custom with regard to the administration of Baptism has undergone a change in the course of history. Whereas the early Church baptized adults only, the baptism of children soon became the usual practice." (Sanford, Alexander E., MD, Pastoral Medicine: Handbook for the Catholic Clergy, 1904, p 32-33)
4. "Where in the fourth and fifth centuries the doctrine of original sin became better known, the practice of infant baptism progressed rapidly." (Legislation on the Sacraments in the New Code of Canon Law, p. 72).
5. "When all fear of persecution had passed away, and the empire had become almost entirely Christian, the necessity for a prolonged period of trial and instruction no longer existed, about the same time the fuller teaching on the subject of original sin, occasioned by the Pelagian heresy, gradually led to the administration of baptism of infants." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. V, p. 78).
6. Infant baptism by immersion commanded of all infants in the Council Of Mela in 416 AD.

Conclusion: There is no command or example of infant baptism in the Bible. Neither Jesus nor any apostles taught infant baptism; infant baptism is a man made tradition spawned in the Roman Catholic church in the fifth century. Scriptures say, Repent, believe, and be baptised to be saved. Roman Catholics say, baptise your babies and they are saved. Roman Catholics do not practice according to the practices of the apostolic age.
http://www.bible.ca/catholic-flip-flops-baptism-infant.htm

 

[Magenta]

Here is some more Roman Catholic doctrinal evolution, proving
they do not practice according to the beliefs of the apostolic age
http://www.bible.ca/cath-new-doctrines.htm

 

[Magenta]

Fun for the whole family, presented in easy to comprehend question and answer form! More pertinent points proving that Roman Catholics do not believe in following what was taught and practised during the apostolic era:

All Christians are saints

FACT: The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints". For example, Pope John Paul II could not make Mother Teresa a saint (official canonization) until after she was dead. The average Catholic in the pew is never called a "saint" dead or alive! In fact if a pew dwelling Catholic started calling himself a "saint", he would be rebuked by the parish priest!

Question #1: Was every living Christian in the church in Corinth called a saint?

Answer: 1 Corinthians 1:2 o YES NO o

​

​

"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours" 1 Corinthians 1:2
Question #2: Did Paul write the book of Ephesians to dead saints?

Answer: Ephesians 1:1 o YES NO o​

​

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 1:1

Question #3: Was the average Christian in the church at Philippi called a saint, in distinction to bishops and deacons?

Answer: Philippians 1:1 o YES NO o

​

​

"Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons" Philippians 1:1

Question #4: Was every Christian living in Rome called to be a saint?

Answer: Romans 1:7 o YES NO o

​

​

"to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 1:7

All Christians are priests

FACT: The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only. The average pew dwelling Catholic never refer to themselves as "priests". In fact if a lay Catholic started calling himself a "priest", he would be rebuked by "the parish Priest"!

Question #1: Did Jesus make all Christians to be priests, including the average member in the pew?

Answer: 1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10 o YES NO o

​

​

"you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 1 Peter 2:5

"But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; " 1 Peter 2:9

"Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

"You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Revelation 5:10

Bishops must be Married.

FACT: In 1079 AD celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII. Before this time, they were permitted to marry.

Question #1: Does the Bible teach that a bishop (overseer) must be married AND ALSO have children as one of the conditions of being qualified to be a bishop?

Answer:

​

​

"A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)" 1 Timothy 3:2-5

Question #2: In the very next chapter of the Bible after bishops are told they must be married with children, does the Holy Spirit warn that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of demons"?

Answer: 1 Timothy 4:1-3 o YES NO o

​

​

"But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage andadvocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3

Peter was married

FACT: Most Catholics believe that Apostle Peter was the first Pope and was not married. As one Roman Catholic leader said, "if Peter had a wife when he first met Jesus, he got rid of her quick!"

Question #1: Did Peter have a wife?

Answer: Mark 1:30 o YES NO o

​

​

"Now Simon's mother-in-law was lying sick with a fever; and immediately they spoke to Jesus about her." Mark 1:30

Question #2: Did Paul say all the apostles including Peter had a right to be married?

Answer: 1 Corinthians 9:5 o YES NO o

​

​

"Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?" 1 Corinthians 9:5

Find more fun facts about the apostasy of the Roman Catholic church here:
http://www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm

 

[crossnote]

Just as predicted Blain, the anti-Catholics are coming out in droves with their bias personal opinions of the Catholic Chruch and her teachings. As you can see, these folks and others who claim to have been Catholic and have left the Catholic Church are consummed with the need to prove that the Catholic Church is an apostate Church. I would even go as far as challenging ther knowledge reguarding the Catholic faith with a couple of simple questions.　

In the Gospel of Matthew Christ promises to be with His Church all days even to the end of the world. If that is true then there must have existed since the time of Christ - true Christians who believed correctly and practiced their faith correctly, correct? I doubt Christ would promise to be with apostates. Since the time of Christ Catholics can name many people who believe as we believe and practiced their faith as we practice it.

I challenge those who accuse the Catholic Church of being a false Church to name only 3 historically verifiable people in each century who believe as they believe and practiced their faith as they practice it. If these folks are correct then there must have been 'true Christians' in each century who believed and practiced as they do. This challenge leaves us with 3 possibilities: (1) There were Christians who believed and practiced as they do (Name 3 per century) (2) Those real Christians through the centuries were Catholics. (3) Or Christ lied. Which is it? None of us thinks Christ lied. Catholics can list countless people in all centuries who attended Mass, believed in the 'Real Presence', etc. Now these folks that challengr the Catholic faith should be able to find 3 people who believed as they did, don't you think?
　

Now if they cannot identify these people then I submit they didn't exist. There is a historical record of the pagans, the heretics, the Mohammedans, etc. The only people for whom there is no historical record is this remnant of true Christians who believed and practiced like those doing the challenging. True Christians would not be much of a 'light to the world' if nobody even knew they existed. I have yet to hear anyone other than a Catholics fully address the questions above. So in closing Blain, lets see how they respond and make your own judgment
　

Pax Christi

How about each of those the Roman Catholic Church burned at the stake?
Does the true Church burn people at the stake?

 

[Magenta]

List of people burned as heretics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics

Includes William Tyndale, largely responsible for the KJV.
An English scholar who became a leading figure in Protestant reform in the years
leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English.

He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the
Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.

While a number of partial translations had been made from the seventh century onward, the spread of Wycliffe's Bible resulted in a death sentence for any unlicensed possession of Scripture in English—even though translations in all other major European languages had been accomplished and made available. Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English one to take advantage of the printing press, and first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation.

 

[santuzza]

Why do I need to cite historical figures to support my position that the Catholic church is heretical? It's plain from reading the Bible -- the ULTIMATE historical citation!

As I said earlier, just one heretical doctrine is enough for me to simply reject that faith system.

The deification of Mary is not an opinion, it is fact. The RCC promotes and encourages prayer to Mary. That is heretical. That is all I need to know about the RCC. (I do know a lot more and could cite many more heresies, but, again, this is all I need...)

What I don't understand is why a born again believer would want to look further into this false religion if not to make it a mission field. Any other delving into it is simply opening a door for Satan to walk into one's life. As someone above stated, you don't need to lift the lid and put your head into the the can to know what's in the garbage can. Would you do the same thing with, say, sexual purity? "Gee, I wonder why people look at so much pornography? I think I'll try it to see why people do it so much..." Not a good decision.

 

[jb]

Just as predicted Blain, the anti-Catholics are coming out in droves...

Yep, there's always a number of carnal sectarian bigots who come out of the woodwork when Roman Catholic threads appear, these persons would do better to judge themselves first! 1Cor 3v1-8

 

[Magenta]

The RCC promotes and encourages prayer to Mary. That is heretical.

They say Jesus could not have been sinless if not for her. Imagine that! God can make Mary sinless, but not His only begotten Son with Whom He was well pleased, the firstborn of all creation, the One Who made all things, the One for Whom all things are made, within Whom all things exist, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? The chief cornerstone, the head of the church, the Holy One, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Light of the world, Prince of peace, living Word of God, Bread of Life, Living Water, Emmanuel, Mediator, Rock, Resurrection, Saviour, True Vine, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the second Person of the Triune God,... could not have been sinless if Mary wasn't? To say it is puzzling does not begin to describe their egregious error.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yep, there's always a number of carnal sectarian bigots who come out of the woodwork when Roman Catholic threads appear, these persons would do better to judge themselves first! 1Cor 3v1-8

With all due respect, we are not bigots, but are making a right judgment based on the word of God vs. Roman Catholicism, just as we do with every other religious system that claims to be of Christ which is false. With just a cursory look, the RCC is a pagan system with the worship of Mary, the distortion of the Lord's supper with the bread and wine changed into the Eucharist and transubstantiation, the sacraments which are works based, the teaching of Purgatory as a means to purge sin in flame that wasn't absolved while in life and indulgences, which are masses that people pay for to have their time shortened for their loved ones in Purgatory. This is just a summarization of the RCC's beliefs, which are all opposed to the word of God. We are not against the people, but the system. If the people remain in it, participating in her pagan practices and rituals which is spiritual adultery, then they will suffer with her in the future when God has her destroyed. Those who die trusting in the RCC today are also lost and that because they have the wrong gospel and the wrong lord, for she is a counterfeit hiding in plain site and is deceiving many.

"Come out of her my people so that you will not partake in her plagues, for her sins are piled up to heaven and God has remembered her Crimes."

 

[Magenta]

With all due respect, we are not bigots...

Do you notice how they judge the people, while refusing to address the charges brought against their teachings and practices that allow us to rightly claim them as false when compared to the revealed written Word of God? There is a reason why they engage in the logical fallacy of attacking the person instead of the argument, with the logical reason being that the heretical teachings and practices pointed out here are indefensible in light of the Word of God. Their only recourse is to call those who demonstrate the plain falseness of their teachings, hateful bigots. I hope others will not believe their hateful spite in light of the truth of their falsity.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They say Jesus could not have been sinless if not for her. Imagine that! God can make Mary sinless, but not His only begotten Son with Whom He was well pleased, the firstborn of all creation, the One Who made all things, the One for Whom all things are made, within Whom all things exist, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? The chief cornerstone, the head of the church, the Holy One, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Light of the world, Prince of peace, living Word of God, Bread of Life, Living Water, Emmanuel, Mediator, Rock, Resurrection, Saviour, True Vine, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the second Person of the Triune God,... could not have been sinless if Mary wasn't? To say it is puzzling does not begin to describe their egregious error.

You forgot the "Sheep Gate"

 

[Magenta]

You forgot the "Sheep Gate"

... and good Shepherd. Oh dear!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Do you notice how they judge the people, while refusing to address the charges brought against their teachings and practices that allow us to rightly claim them as false when compared to the revealed written Word of God? There is a reason why they engage in the logical fallacy of attacking the person instead of the argument, with the logical reason being that the heretical teachings and practices pointed out here are indefensible in light of the Word of God. Their only recourse is to call those who demonstrate the plain falseness of their teachings, hateful bigots. I hope others will not believe their hateful spite in light of the truth of their falsity.

Very true, just as it is with the rest of the false teachings in the world. Their response is to discredit those who are proclaiming the truth and exposing the lies. As believers, we are supposed to be aware, discerning false teachers and their teachings and exposing them. Personally, from my studies, I have always believed that the RCC is the Mystery Babylon of Revelation. She is that woman who rides the beast, as she fits all of the criteria. In Rev.17 it states that the kings of the world will commit spiritual adultery with her and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. This is figurative for the kings and the inhabitants of the earth engaging in her adulterous practices, rituals and beliefs. According to Strong's, the figurative definition of this adultery is: "to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower" and this is exactly what the RCC is doing.

It is amazing to me that there are over 1.2 billion Catholic's! It tells me that there are many who are not searching the scripture's and believing in the word of God, but they have put their salvation and eternal life in the hands of the pope and the RCC, thinking that they are safe because they are a member. Just like Mormonism or the Witnesses, the system of the RCC has become their salvation instead of Christ. According to RCC dogma, the best hope that any catholic has at the time of death is Purgatory and no one knows how long a person has to remain in there before they are purged of their sins. Scripture on the other hand, teaches that for true believers there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and that through faith in him all believers are cleansed of all unrighteousness.

 

[ember]

Speaking of wealth...oh sorry, we weren't speaking of wealth?

The RCC has more than anyone...they could feed all their starving parishonners

I hope that is not considered being a bigot....

 

[MikeHenderson]

Catholicism teaches that its by Works we receive Salvation AND only after they die can they know IF they have done enough good Works to receive Salvation.

Catholicism also teaches that Mary was born without sin. The Catholics need Mary to be without sin so Jesus could be sinless. The Catholics believe that a baby in the womb of a sinner inherits the sin nature from them. This is interesting in that they do not claim Mary's mother had to be without sin. They believe God keep Mary free from sin while in the womb of a sinner.

But yet somehow God was powerless to keep Jesus free from sin while in the womb of Mary who was a sinner.

Catholicism also teaches that Mary is a mediator between us and God.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Clearly God says there is only one Mediator, but yet the Catholics teach Mary is also a mediator.

If you look carefully at all the Doctrines about Mary in the last 170 years you will see how little by little Catholicism is replacing God with Mary. Its Mary they follow today.

 

[santuzza]

there's always a number of carnal sectarian bigots who come out of the woodwork when Roman Catholic threads appear

Oh, yes, let's resort to name-calling... That's extremely helpful...

Got any Scripture to back that up?

 

[MikeHenderson]

Do you notice how the Catholics love to call us names and call us haters?

I truly believe its the Catholics who hate everyone.