The Charismatic movement?

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#141
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
113
#141
Willie-T said:
I hold that when someone "speaks in tongues", a sound comes out of their mouths.

This sound is not English, German, Spanish, or French. Not a known language. It is just a sound that not a soul on earth understands from their own learning or experience.

But, it IS a "sound" instigated and authored by God. (Not just sounds a particular speaker chooses to formulate.)

I believe, that when that sound reaches whomever God intended for it to reach, they either understand it, or they don't. If they don't understand it, they just hear strange sounds.

However, if someone DOES feel they understand it, then they can "interpret" the sound.... even though they may only speak nothing but their one single native tongue (which is the same language as all the others in the audience, who cannot make out anything but an odd sound.)

When that "interpreter" tells the rest of the people what the original speaker is meaning to convey.... He/she is NOT interpreting German, Spanish, or French. He/she is simply speaking out what God has put on his/her mind and heart as they listened to the sounds coming from the mouth of the original speaker.
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Which leads to the statement made by another poster that what is in the heart is what issues from the mouth.

So is sounds that are not intelligible what is in the heart?

Psalm 119 says that the faithful man has hidden the word of God in his heart that he might not sin against God.

Ps 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#142
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#142
notuptome said:
Here we have the depth of the movement.

Just believe and it will be all good. Don't consider what that pesky bible teaches. Just give into the spirit and go where it takes you.

The word of God is pure may that be what issues from your mouth.

In the end time men will gather to themselves those who will teach them what they want to hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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See what's bolded in red? I know a group here on CC that doesn't have a single Pentecostal or charismatic in it that's been living like that & argue with those that don't..... as a matter 'o fact, you'ins is in it. Seems that he that judges is doin' the same things. :)
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#143
Feb 15, 2014
3,935
987
113
62
#143
popeye said:
Show me this powerless church,as you describe it,in the book of acts.Almost every chapter has miracles signs and wonders in it.

It is in fact your template of a powerless Jesus,and a weak body of Christ, that is nowhere to be found in the bible,except as apostate.



Paul ,what was he?
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Hi Popeye, you believe that the gifts which was given in apostolic time is also present?
Then why in churchhistorie we have no evidence of that. Why this gifts are also given to pagans and sects? Why it startet in around 1901 in US in a small group? When it came to germany in 1905 first the churchleaders thought it would be from god, but then they found out it is not. And so it seperatet christianity. What we know today as pentecostal movement ore charismatic movement has its foundation in those beginnings from 1905. Take for example the gift of healing. In the biblical events in the gospels and act we find that the people which came to the Lord ore the apostels were healed. Nowbody went home partly healed ore still sick. Where is today the person which can claim that he can heal all those which come to him. And thats not the purpose why Jesus came. Of course the Lord heals today to, but not in the way as he did in apostolic time. In James 5 wr read what a sick believer should do. Find we this teaching in our churches?
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#144
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#144
James says IF not when...

Paul says people get sick because they didn't discern the blood and the body...

I've seen many healings as I work in a healing room, it's not 100%, but I see more the more I pray and from glory to glory my mind is renewed to the goodness of God...

Here's a link on healings in church history:
Healing in the Patristic Period

Jesus said we would do the same works He did and greater...

Healing was in the OT and now we have a better covenant...

Jesus never said no to any person who come to Him for healing... those He tried to say no to that persisted He commended for their great faith...

Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever... that's why He's I AM.

Actually the purpose of Jesus was to destroy the works of the devil. And sickness is a work of the devil. Sickness entered the world through sin. Sin is now done away with, so sickness is now illegal.

We are to preach the KINGDOM of God. The Kingdom is the King's dominion. In His dominion there is no sickness, fear, etc. This is the gospel, to give what we've been given. This is the Holy Spirit. That's why He told the disciples to go and pray until they were baptized in Acts 2 and 4.

C.

wolfwint said:
Hi Popeye, you believe that the gifts which was given in apostolic time is also present?
Then why in churchhistorie we have no evidence of that. Why this gifts are also given to pagans and sects? Why it startet in around 1901 in US in a small group? When it came to germany in 1905 first the churchleaders thought it would be from god, but then they found out it is not. And so it seperatet christianity. What we know today as pentecostal movement ore charismatic movement has its foundation in those beginnings from 1905. Take for example the gift of healing. In the biblical events in the gospels and act we find that the people which came to the Lord ore the apostels were healed. Nowbody went home partly healed ore still sick. Where is today the person which can claim that he can heal all those which come to him. And thats not the purpose why Jesus came. Of course the Lord heals today to, but not in the way as he did in apostolic time. In James 5 wr read what a sick believer should do. Find we this teaching in our churches?
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wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#145
Feb 15, 2014
3,935
987
113
62
#145
Cee said:
James says IF not when...

Paul says people get sick because they didn't discern the blood and the body...

I've seen many healings as I work in a healing room, it's not 100%, but I see more the more I pray and from glory to glory my mind is renewed to the goodness of God...

Here's a link on healings in church history:
Healing in the Patristic Period

Jesus said we would do the same works He did and greater...

Healing was in the OT and now we have a better covenant...

Jesus never said no to any person who come to Him for healing... those He tried to say no to that persisted He commended for their great faith...

Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever... that's why He's I AM.

Actually the purpose of Jesus was to destroy the works of the devil. And sickness is a work of the devil. Sickness entered the world through sin. Sin is now done away with, so sickness is now illegal.

We are to preach the KINGDOM of God. The Kingdom is the King's dominion. In His dominion there is no sickness, fear, etc. This is the gospel, to give what we've been given. This is the Holy Spirit. That's why He told the disciples to go and pray until they were baptized in Acts 2 and 4.

C.
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thank you, give me some time for reply
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#146
#146
Signs (biblical) ...follow believers. Many have entered into error trying to follow after signs.
 
E

ember

Guest
#147
#147
Blain said:
exactly that is why I was asking what I did in my post above
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and sadly, the entire thing has deviated to one manifestation as always

which possibly makes the rest moot since the topic of tongues just brings out the very best, eh?
 
E

ember

Guest
#148
#148
wolfwint said:
Hi Popeye, you believe that the gifts which was given in apostolic time is also present?
Then why in churchhistorie we have no evidence of that. Why this gifts are also given to pagans and sects? Why it startet in around 1901 in US in a small group? When it came to germany in 1905 first the churchleaders thought it would be from god, but then they found out it is not. And so it seperatet christianity. What we know today as pentecostal movement ore charismatic movement has its foundation in those beginnings from 1905. Take for example the gift of healing. In the biblical events in the gospels and act we find that the people which came to the Lord ore the apostels were healed. Nowbody went home partly healed ore still sick. Where is today the person which can claim that he can heal all those which come to him. And thats not the purpose why Jesus came. Of course the Lord heals today to, but not in the way as he did in apostolic time. In James 5 wr read what a sick believer should do. Find we this teaching in our churches?
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with regards to church history? how much do you know about how history is recorded or even why?

do you know my history? what? no? then how can you say that there is no history regarding the gifts or nothing recorded?

for example, Egypt had a habit of recording only those things in which they came out on top of the heap...all the failures and lost wars were...forgotten

what about the gift of healing? who heals? I know God heals...I've seen it happen...I can't heal anyone...and we are not Jesus my friend...and even Jesus did not do much where He was not wanted and in the end He was crucified by His own because they did not recognize Him...yes, it was always God's plan to be so...BUT God caused what was to become what is (wrap around that one...might take awhile)

Do you know the purpose Christ came?

Here is a hint (besides dying for our sins)

7Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[SUP]a[/SUP]They will come in and go out, and find pasture.10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy;I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. John 10

we don't earn salvation nor do we work for it once we are a believer, but if we work in our own strength, we'll soon find out what the above means
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#151
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
113
#151
Stephen63 said:
See what's bolded in red? I know a group here on CC that doesn't have a single Pentecostal or charismatic in it that's been living like that & argue with those that don't..... as a matter 'o fact, you'ins is in it. Seems that he that judges is doin' the same things. :)
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You won't answer the question either.

Are tongues in the lips of the speaker or the ears of the hearer?

When God speaks is the Holy Spirit the interpreter?

What is issuing from the hearts of men?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#152
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
113
#152
Mitspa said:
Signs (biblical) ...follow believers. Many have entered into error trying to follow after signs.
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Circular statement.

Signs are for Israel. Israel is unbelieving.

Are Gentiles in error seeking signs?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#153
#153
notuptome said:
Circular statement.

Signs are for Israel. Israel is unbelieving.

Are Gentiles in error seeking signs?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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What? Signs follow believers...(clear reading of the scriptures) many have entered into error trying to follow after signs...clearly biblical and can be seen as evident... If that's sounds circular to you? .....Ok :confused:
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#154
Jul 3, 2015
62,638
31,470
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#154
Matthew 12:39 He (Jesus) answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."​

Matthew 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.​


 
E

ember

Guest
#155
#155
Mitspa said:
What? Signs follow believers...(clear reading of the scriptures) many have entered into error trying to follow after signs...clearly biblical and can be seen as evident... If that's sounds circular to you? .....Ok :confused:
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mheh

and some have entered into error denying the whole thing as in

'the Holy Spirit' has left the building


planet even

I have never ever in my entire existence until I joined this forum ever heard that signs were only for Israel

that teaching must be hiding in some dark suitcase somewhere cause I can't find it in any Bible!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#156
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
113
#156
Mitspa said:
What? Signs follow believers...(clear reading of the scriptures) many have entered into error trying to follow after signs...clearly biblical and can be seen as evident... If that's sounds circular to you? .....Ok :confused:
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Are you attempting to cite Mark 16 ?

Gentile do not seek signs but knowledge. Israel seeks signs and none shall be given them. Save the sign of Jonah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#157
#157
This entire charismatic thing is just man made pride.

If you have to tell me you are Christian, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you are a healer, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you speak in tongues, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.

We don't get to pick and choose the gifts of the spirit. HE chooses our gifts. We don't command the Holy Spirit.

Do I believe in healing, and tongues? Vary much so yes. But I haven't seen anything authentic yet.


Kefa
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#158
#158
Kefa54 said:
This entire charismatic thing is just man made pride.

If you have to tell me you are Christian, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you are a healer, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you speak in tongues, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.

We don't get to pick and choose the gifts of the spirit. HE chooses our gifts. We don't command the Holy Spirit.

Do I believe in healing, and tongues? Vary much so yes. But I haven't seen anything authentic yet.


Kefa
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I have seen the authentic and it is a truly a wonderful thing.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#159
Jul 3, 2015
62,638
31,470
113
#159
Kefa54 said:
This entire charismatic thing is just man made pride.

If you have to tell me you are Christian, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you are a healer, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.
If you have to tell me you speak in tongues, and I can't tell by your fruit. Something is wrong.

We don't get to pick and choose the gifts of the spirit. HE chooses our gifts. We don't command the Holy Spirit.

Do I believe in healing, and tongues? Vary much so yes. But I haven't seen anything authentic yet.

Kefa
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Do you know what your spiritual gift is?
Are we supposed to know?
I do not know what my spiritual gift is.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#160
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#160
ember said:
mheh

and some have entered into error denying the whole thing as in

'the Holy Spirit' has left the building


planet even

I have never ever in my entire existence until I joined this forum ever heard that signs were only for Israel

that teaching must be hiding in some dark suitcase somewhere cause I can't find it in any Bible!
Click to expand...
It comes from the English Standard Redacted version ;)
 
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