I want to understand the Catholic faith so....
- Thread starter Blain
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jaybird88
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hey Blain, IMO, most of your anti catholic rhetoric is done by the modern day pharisees. and these people hate everyone out side of their little circle of belief. its easy to see if you just use some common sense and look to Jesus. He taught love your heavenly Father, love your fellow man, and everything else hinges on these 2 commandments. Jesus made no denomination conditions on this, IE Nazarene, Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, etc. how can one follow what Jesus taught when they are so busy hating?
many will say the Catholics have doctrines that are not supported by scripture. i agree with this, but dont forget that you have non Catholic Christians teaching doctrine that can not be supported by scripture. this is a mankind issue, not denomination.
Jesus studied with the Nazarenes and Essenes yet in His teachings, you never hear Him mention them, not do you hear him mention any denominations yet their were many.i think there was a reason for this and i believe today we put far to much focus in dwelling on what denomination people are.
many will say the Catholics have doctrines that are not supported by scripture. i agree with this, but dont forget that you have non Catholic Christians teaching doctrine that can not be supported by scripture. this is a mankind issue, not denomination.
Jesus studied with the Nazarenes and Essenes yet in His teachings, you never hear Him mention them, not do you hear him mention any denominations yet their were many.i think there was a reason for this and i believe today we put far to much focus in dwelling on what denomination people are.
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atwhatcost
Guest
Hence we're called Jesus ChristIAN.
Really? thats all you got? Since utah had no answer, maybe you'd like to tak a crack at it.
Here, I'll post it for ya......
I challenge you and those who accuse the Catholic Church of being a false Church to name only 3 historically verifiable people in each century who believe as you believe and practiced your faith as they practice it. If you folks are correct then there must have been 'true Christians' in each century who believed and practiced as you do. This challenge leaves us with 3 possibilities: (1) There were Christians who believed and practiced as you do (Name 3 per century) (2) Those real Christians through the centuries were Catholics. (3) Or Christ lied. Which is it? None of us thinks Christ lied now right? We Catholics can list countless people in all centuries who attended Mass, believed in the 'Real Presence', Perpetual Virginity of Mary, etc. Now you and other folks on this forum that challengr the Catholic faith should be able to find 3 people who believed as they did, don't you think?
Once again I repeat, if you cannot identify these people then I submit they didn't exist. There is a historical record of the pagans, the heretics, the Mohammedans, etc. The only people for whom there is no historical record is this remnant of true Christians who believed and practiced like those of you doing the challenging. True Christians would not be much of a 'light to the world' if nobody even knew they existed. I have yet to hear anyone other than a Catholics fully address the questions above.
Take your time Bub
Pax Christi
P
purpose
Guest
(maybe?)
LOL.
This is a PROTESTANT FORUM.
(Take a closer look at all the site policies.)
It is EXPECTED for a PROTESTANT on a PROTESTANT FORUM to have an ESTABLISHED POSITION of PROTESTANTISM!
This accusation of yours is just absurd.
It's beyond absurd.
How can YOU come on a PROTESTANT FORUM and make accusations against Protestants for BEING PROTESTANTS!
WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH YOU??????
This is a protestant forum:
1. A Protestant on a Protestant forum should be expected to have Protestant positions.
2. A protestant on a protestant forum isn't required to be "curious' about the Roman Catholic Church.
You are actually on a Protestant forum, telling Protestants they shouldn't have Protestant positions!!!!
This could not be more absurd.
Absurdity has just reached the absolute pinnacle.
For the life of me, I can't understand WHY you come here.
I'm sure there are lots of Catholic forums where you'd fit in, and be much happier.
Why do you come to a Protestant forum, when you clearly disagree with our beliefs????
What would provoke you to come here and argue with us?
Hmmm... what could someone's intentions be for going to a place of opposite beliefs, and then starting arguments?
Hmmm.
You just bored and like to go start a fight somewhere?
That IS what you do here... start fights.
Is that it?
You're just bored, and enjoy fighting, so you come to a Protestant forum to argue and irritate people?
Beautiful.
Just beautiful, lol.
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On the contrary, we who put Jesus above all things are in alignment with the Father who has placed Jesus above all things. You on the other hand sadly put the Catholic Church above Jesus. Mary, the pope, and the institution are all above Jesus. If it were not so, this entire discussion would not be taking place for you would be rejoicing at the faithful love everyone has for Jesus.
Your ignorance is not just sad, its blasphemous. You, fordman, worship the Catholic church. You're doomed, and there ain't nothing Mary, the pope or your works can do about it. Did, dot, dash, adios, blasphemer. Make no mistake, you've been warned.
No. During the liturgy leading to the Eucharist (also called Communion or the Lord's Supper), the story of Christ is retold (some might say re-enacted). This is so that we might enter into the "Paschal Mystery." According to the catechism, "The Paschal Mystery of Jesus, which comprises his passion, death, resurrection, and glorification, stands at the center of the Christian faith because God's saving plan was accomplished once for all by the redemptive death of his Son Jesus Christ."
The point is not to recrucify Christ (there is no underlying belief that "recrucifixion" is necessary). You can see by the words of the catechism that there's no belief that the resurrection of Christ is "undone" so we have to "do it over again"--which to me is what "recrucifixion" would involve. The catechism clearly teaches "once for all."
If you recall, during the Passover, Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." It's not "remembrance" in a flat way like "fondly recall." (Oh yeah, I remember that one time when Jesus died on a cross...) It's more the idea of taking that which happened in the past and making it a present reality. So, every Mass is an opportunity for us to enter into the salvation God has offered the world through the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.
Many non-Catholic churches will have weekly "altar calls." This is an opportunity for people to convert or to rededicate their lives. It's not precisely the same, but it is similar during the Mass. Because we're making the salvation work of Christ a present reality, it is a time to repent of sin (which happens within every Mass) and once again experience the salvation God offers to us.
I said I would when you answerd mine. but you seem to be having a bit of trouble huh? go figure... deflector.
Pax Christi
and zz's post above is where it all started...another violation of CC rules
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being bound by mans view . It has everything to do with adhering to scripture; Christ' view!!
What your parents did with you was a man made tradition which you call a sacrament; Nothing more. Which I wonder if you see the contradiction in your words of NOT being bound by mans views but yet you have been bound by mans traditions and man made sacraments.
Wouldnt God speak on infant baptism in scripture if it mattered?
Do you understand that God is NOT a respecter of persons? This means EVERYONE ADHERES to the Bible for our guidelines in understanding. Sprinkling water on your head ONLY made you a wet headed unknowledged unregenerated baby.
Im perplexed as to why I cant get you to reckon with the fact that baptism didnt save you! Can you show me in scripture that baptism as a baby saves you? If you cannot provide that,you should conclude that your faith statement on your profile is not truth according to the guideline provided in Christ' words.
Over time, God let me know that I was His.
What happened?
Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
I'm asking a fundamental question about the Sacrament of Communion and you refuse to answer. Instead, you make up a contrived, irrelevant question created only for the purpose of deflecting the heretical errors of the Catholic church -- aka, your god.
Three people per century? How about this; out of the mouths of babes and sucklings God has perfected praise. You demand prominence, God demands humility and secrecy. Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. You lose again. Guess you're not up for the challenge of your ridiculous assertion that the elements in Communion actually turn into the body and blood of Christ because a priest (a sinner) prays over them. Funny how they still taste like bread and wine. Once again its like shooting fish in a barrel.
ok thx, I glanced over the Catechism on the Eucharist...140 subheadings under article 3.
Where in the world do they come up with all that? The instructions out of the Gospels and 1Cor 11 would only comprise 1/14th of all that info. Seems to me, someone is making up a whole lot or it has accrued over the centuries.
This I suppose is what makes the greatest divide...Rome takes on Teachings from Church Fathers and Councils as part of their final authority whereas we look to Scripture alone for our final authority.
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Gr8grace
Guest
Very well said Brother. There are going to be HEROS in heaven that not a one of us have ever heard about. The Father saw what they did in secret and they glorified God in their "puny" little "unheard of" life. But they followed His plan for their life.
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atwhatcost
Guest
I'll put in the effort, if you put in this effort first. Name three of your relatives for each of the last 20 centuries.
Seem kind of silly? Yeah, just about as silly as you expect anyone to be able to name three people "who believe just like you do" (as if that means squat.)
No one is taking up the challenge because it means nothing.
Thank you, brother!
And Amen to the joy our brethren of yesteryear have now and forever in Jesus Christ.
I say no, This prayer is unbiblical, and a tradition of man, lower case t. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures does it contain this prayer or even imply it, and this prayer was totally unheard of by Protestantism's own reformers in the 16th century. It’s a good prayer but it’s unbiblical. It is ironic though, that most modern churches will say the "Sinner’s Prayer" in their churches (which is unbiblical), yet refrain from saying the "Lord’s Prayer" or the "Our Father" which IS Biblical and was commanded of us to pray from the very lips of our Lord and Savior. When’s the last time you recited the Lord’s Prayer in your current church? Did not Christ command you to pray to his Father in this manner?
Read Matt 6:9-13 again.
And then how about "The Altar Call." Unbiblical. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures does it describe or speak of an "Altar Call." It is a misnomer to call this event an "Altar call," for ironically most modern churches, (in contrast to every Christian Church in the first 1500+ years of Christianity), do not even have an "altar" in their churches. It’s a good tradition of man, but it’s unbiblical, (lower case t). This modern idea was unheard of by Protestantism's own reformers who actually had altars in their churches. This is an unbiblical tradition of the modern Christian man and totally unheard of in historic Christianity to include the Apostles and the NT Church.
The common practice among most every modern Christian service to serve shots of "grape juice" for communion rather than wine as the Bible speaks of.
This practice is unbiblical and even anti-biblical. Where did this come from? Does not the Holy Bible and Our Lord Himself tell us that wine is to be used? Again even the first Protestants used wine. In Cana, did Christ make "grape juice" for his first miracle or wine? Was the Holy Grail at the Last Supper full of juice, or water as the Mormons use? This is absurd, blatantly unbiblical and vehemently anti-biblical. It is an apostate tradition of the modern man and totally unheard of in historic Christianity to include the Protestant reformers and the NT Church. It violates a direct commandment of God Incarnate.
"And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, "Take this and share it among yourselves; 18for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes." 19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 20And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood." Luke 22:17-20
"Bowing your heads and closing your eyes when you pray" as you have been taught since childhood. Not a bad tradition, but again unbiblical. Quite similar to how we Catholics make the "Sign of the Cross" to profess their Baptism (ref: Matt 28:19-20) when we pray to and worship the Blessed Trinity. Both good practices, yet both explicitly unbiblical traditions of men (lower case t’s). Not all "traditions of man" are bad. But all are unbiblical. And it is difficult to call oneself a "Bible Only" Christian in the strictest sense when one adheres to and practices so many unbiblical behaviors/beliefs. Again, a more appropriate name should be "Bible Believing" Christian. But even that assumes one acknowledges what is and what is not in the Holy Bible.
This is to just a partial list of unbiblical doctrines and practices embraced by the modern Christian beleivers of the Sola Scriptura doctrine. I can list many more if you'd like. If you claim to be a "Bible Only Christian and adhere to Sola Scriptura or the Bible only idea, then to embrace any of the above ideas, ANY of them is to go against the "Bible Only" principle. So you need to ask yourself, either I'm "Bible Only" or I'm not. What is it??
Pax Christi
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Gr8grace
Guest
I do have a hard time beating the catholics. Not my calling or mission? The catholic institution is to OBVIOUS in its false doctrine.
But the protestants~~~~~~~boy they have false doctrine that is so close to the truth, that most don't question them.
The sinners prayer?
Ask Jesus into your heart?
lordship salvation? (Arguably, the biggest deception in the Church today.......its SOOOOOO close to the truth)
walk an isle?
loss of salvation for-____________?
you weren't really saved?
you need fruit?
You have to repent of all of your sins?
You have to confess with your mouth?
SHHHHH you can't say this exactly but......., you can't really believe unless your predestined to believe?
The catholic church is so obvious and most born-again Christians don't fall for the propaganda.......but the protestant false doctrines are so very subtle and get a pass from most christians.......... and thats how satan works, the ultimate deceiver.
Jesus is our only intercessor to God. Asking a saint to intercede for you would be like asking your pastor to be your attorney in court. I'm sure your pastor is a good person but he can not help you in court because he does not have that authority. Jesus Christ did not die on the cross for us to pray to saints.
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