U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates

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maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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How can this thread possibly be 51 pages????

Is there something really complicated about it that I missed?
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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That's where you have it twisted. There are plenty of things I disapprove of but that doesn't give me the right to stop others from doing it. Its called free will
I think the thing you dont understand here is that you call yourself a follower of Christ, but you condemn this woman for standing on Gods word.
Do you believe Christ would take the same stance as you right now? I really doubt He would :p
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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That's where you have it twisted. There are plenty of things I disapprove of but that doesn't give me the right to stop others from doing it. Its called free will
So if you saw a child being abducted by a known rapist, you would keep walking mumbling ' free will'?
 
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Lis45

Guest
Sorry. I have to disagree with this. You and I don't have to approve of them getting married. But it's not our choice. It's theirs. Even God Himself grants us our own freedom of choice.
 
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Lis45

Guest
lol Maxwel. It's a hot issue...that even Christians can't seem to agree with each other on (even while all agreeing with God). There are so many Christians struggling with this too...really struggling and wanting help and guidance. God bless them!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Liberty Counsel latest statement...

Mathew Staver, Founder and Chairman
Liberty Counsel


There is no government with the authority to deny the reality of God-ordained marriage as anything other than a union between one man and one woman. Deacon Keith Fournier and I co-wrote an op-ed which was published Tuesday on The Stream. Please see that article below which also promotes a national movement to protect natural marriage — Mat.

"Neither the Supreme Court nor the States Have the Authority to Deny Marriage Reality."

"The American Principles Project recently released a Statement Calling for Constitutional Resistance to the U.S. Supreme Court marriage opinion in Obergefell v. Hodges. The statement, signed by over sixty scholars, contends that the 5-4 opinion is an abuse of judicial office and does not constitute the rule of law. As Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in his dissent, it is merely the opinion of "five lawyers" who "imposed their will, not a legal judgment," and it is "not based on the Constitution or the Court's precedents."

We could not agree more.

We join the legal scholars and academics who signed the statement in calling on the next President of the United States to:


• treat the Supreme Court marriage opinion as an abuse of judicial power and not as "the law of the land";
• refuse to recognize the Supreme Court marriage opinion as creating a binding rule controlling other cases or on the Office of the President;
• appoint judges and justices who respect the constitutional limits of their power;
• and support the First Amendment Defense Act to protect the conscience and free speech rights of those who hold fast to the conjugal understanding of marriage as the union of husband and wife.

We agree with their legal analysis concerning the flaws in the majority opinion and "call on all federal and state officeholders to refuse to accept Obergefell as binding precedent for all but the specific plaintiffs in that case."

We also join in their call to federal and state officeholders to "recognize the authority of states." Since the statement is focused narrowly on judicial supremacy rather than on the nature of marriage, however, we want to make sure that this claim is not misunderstood or misused.

The statement asks officeholders to "recognize the authority of states to define marriage, and the right of federal and state officeholders to act in accordance with those definitions." In one sense, of course, states have a legitimate authority to "define" marriage, which they must have to enact laws dealing with the "edges" of marriage, such as disposition of property, support, age of consent and child custody. In our federal system, this authority rests with the states rather than the federal government. By overruling many of these laws, the Supreme Court overstepped its constitutional bounds.

At the same time, states have no more right than does the federal government to deny the reality of marriage or to define it arbitrarily.

This is what the federal government did in the Obergefell decision. The Supreme Court not only abused its constitutional authority, it violated natural and revealed law. It contradicted millennia of human history. And it ignored the natural created order, which reveals the truth about marriage between man and woman.

Marriage as an institution precedes civil government. It is the foundation for the family, which is the first cell of civil society and the first government in its own right. No judge, representative or executive has any authority to re-define marriage. Any proper definition of marriage must match the nature of marriage.

The idea that there are certain truths knowable by reason and the natural law is foundational to the American Experiment. The very notion of the rule of law was grounded in the American founder's reliance upon what the Declaration referred to as "the laws of nature and nature's God." The American founders understood, for instance, that human beings are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." Governments, courts and judges do not give us these rights, but rather are obliged to respect them, to recognize them and to enshrine them in our laws.

For this reason, Abraham Lincoln was right to side with the Constitution and the natural law, and against the Supreme Court, in the Court's infamous Dred Scott decision. For Lincoln, and for the very logic of our constitutional order, the right to life and liberty precede the claims to authority of the federal government, the states, and for that matter, even the people. A majority of the voters, after all, does not have the authority to strip a minority of its rights.

In the same way, the reality of marriage precedes our state and federal laws. That's why the language in the Statement Calling for Constitutional Resistance defending the right of states to "define" marriage must not be misinterpreted as simply calling for individual states to determine the nature of marriage. Otherwise, the problem of Obergefell would only reemerge in an even more difficult and complicated way.

Lincoln stood for the unchangeable truths of the natural law and against the judicial supremacy of his day. We must do the same in our day."
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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if you work for the government then follow the laws? i mean there are plenty of non-government jobsout there if you dont like whats required. does she turn away non-christian couples too? Or those who are unequally yoked? What about fornicators?
When she sees the names and genders on those certificates, that's all she knows. She would not have detailed information on their lives. But when she sees two men and women requesting marriage, the sin is obvious. The example you provided is poor at best, why should she resign and get another job? Clearly she doesn't want to do that
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Sorry. I have to disagree with this. You and I don't have to approve of them getting married. But it's not our choice. It's theirs. Even God Himself grants us our own freedom of choice.
Of course we have every right as citizens to decide what is healthy for our society as anyone else...and we have every right to resist wickedness that is being imposed upon our society...In fact I say, we are obligated as Christians to make these moral stands.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Of course we have every right as citizens to decide what is healthy for our society as anyone else...and we have every right to resist wickedness that is being imposed upon our society...In fact I say, we are obligated as Christians to make these moral stands.
You must be reading a different Bible.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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The Bible instructs us on how to conduct OURSELVES... not others. Show me in the Bible where it says we are to force others to as we believe..... you can't because its not in there
 
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Mitspa

Guest
The Bible instructs us on how to conduct OURSELVES... not others. Show me in the Bible where it says we are to force others to as we believe..... you can't because its not in there
Well of course it is under the law...but under the New testament we are called to be good citizens and uphold what is good and reprove what is evil....have you read the bible?
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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The Bible instructs us on how to conduct OURSELVES... not others. Show me in the Bible where it says we are to force others to as we believe..... you can't because its not in there
You dont believe that signing the papers for homosexuals to get married is a sin?

You really believe it was wrong of her to stand in Gods word, even if it meant her going to prison?


I wonder if you would have said the same thing to the apostles when they were arrested.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Well of course it is under the law...but under the New testament we are called to be good citizens and uphold what is good and reprove what is evil....have you read the bible?
Wrong again..... the Bible instructs us to abstain from evil and avoid it and so on and so forth but it does not tell us to stop others from doing it. I suppose we could go back to the Crusades and torture and kill people for not believing what we believe
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Wrong again..... the Bible instructs us to abstain from evil and avoid it and so on and so forth but it does not tell us to stop others from doing it. I suppose we could go back to the Crusades and torture and kill people for not believing what we believe
So it would be right of her to sign the papers for homosexuals to get married, then? Thats what God would want?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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So it would be right of her to sign the papers for homosexuals to get married, then? Thats what God would want?
God says to obey the law. Signing a paper is a simple job and legal requirement. It doesn't mean you are consenting to their behavior. Do your job, obey the law and let them answer to God for what they are doing..... it's kind of like if I don't believe in playing the lottery, would that give me the right to refuse to sell someone a lottery ticket?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
God says to obey the law. Signing a paper is a simple job and legal requirement. It doesn't mean you are consenting to their behavior. Do your job, obey the law and let them answer to God for what they are doing..... it's kind of like if I don't believe in playing the lottery, would that give me the right to refuse to sell someone a lottery ticket?
She was obeying the law...its called the constitution. Yes if you don't want to sell lottery tickets ..you don't have to..if you have enough sense and courage to stand up for what you say you believe?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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If you are a public official then the people you are dealing with are tax paying citizens who pay your salary. Denying them service is stealing from them.