The Charismatic movement?

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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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Message for Brethren That Question the authenticity of the 'gibberish' unknown tongue:

If you haven't noticed it here yet, those who claim the gibberish tongue is the true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost, have difficulty addressing HOW the true cloven tongue manifested on Pentecost per the written Scripture of Acts 2.

The Acts 2 evidence that everyone present heard and understood the Apostles speaking in their own dialects of languages of birth clearly upsets the Charismatic's offered proof of what the cloven tongue is and how it manifests.

Their counter-evidence has been false ideas like:
1. you don't believe in God's miracles
2. immediate movement away... from the Acts 2 evidence, and instead a jump to 1 Cor.14 which they misinterpret
3. complete disregard that God is not the author of 'confusion' in the Church, which instead their churches are loaded with mass confusion, so much so in some of them, that a real circus or carnival is actually better organized and displayed
4. immediate jumps again away from the Acts 2 Scripture evidence, and instead to the subject of healings and other such gifts of The Holy Spirit
5. That the cloven tongue is just a "sound", and not heard as known language dialects by those present, which again is an attempt to deny the actual Acts 2 evidence that everyone present understood in their own language of birth WITHOUT the need of an interpreter by any man
6. Using an idea that those who deny the gibberish tongue "dance around the scripture references that actually support it", while those have difficulty in recognizing the ACTUAL Scripture reference of Acts 2 where it is... clearly expounded

They don't really want to know what God's Word actually reveals about it in Acts 2, which is a show like rebellious Israel per Isaiah 30:10, "Prophesy not unto us right things; speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits".
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Oh no worries I am told I am sweet by many well- older women( no offence) so it's no bother to me I see it as God's light shining when I am told I am sweet. In all honesty I am in no way a man or manly I am a child in heart nature and even in appearance. Believe me I know what it takes to be a man, you can be the age of a man you be physically built as one but in the end a real man has a virtuous heart he loves his wife and family and respects his betters, he stands up for the weak and works hard in everything he does no matter how small, he also is sensitive and understanding of of ppls feelings and hurt and he is willing to lay down his life for another, he is responsible not lazy he knows when to hold his tongue and knows when to speak.
I can go on and on about what it means to be a man and many would disagree with me about what I think it means to be a man but when I see jesus I see what a man really is and I am far from being a man
"Well-older women?" Wow! You're braver than I am.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
it's amazing what some folks cannot let go of!

Blain! You just STOP making money off that stuff you plagerized now...ya hear?

you just cut it out fellah!

can I quote you Blain? :rolleyes:
I really is amazing what "some folks" can't get over, isn't it? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry. You're hurting.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Paul used a tiny preposition in the phrase "if" if I speak. He did not say he actually spoke in angelic tongues. The thrust of the verse in the context of the letter to the Corinthians was for correction. Anything done without love is unprofitable.
This is totally ridiculous. The "if" was referring to BOTH languages... men's and Angel's. And of course he almost always spoke in the tongue of men. Or, do you think he was saying "IF I was able to speak in the tongue of men?"
 
P

popeye

Guest
Message for Brethren That Question the authenticity of the 'gibberish' unknown tongue:

If you haven't noticed it here yet, those who claim the gibberish tongue is the true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost, have difficulty addressing HOW the true cloven tongue manifested on Pentecost per the written Scripture of Acts 2.

The Acts 2 evidence that everyone present heard and understood the Apostles speaking in their own dialects of languages of birth clearly upsets the Charismatic's offered proof of what the cloven tongue is and how it manifests.

Their counter-evidence has been false ideas like:
1. you don't believe in God's miracles
2. immediate movement away... from the Acts 2 evidence, and instead a jump to 1 Cor.14 which they misinterpret
3. complete disregard that God is not the author of 'confusion' in the Church, which instead their churches are loaded with mass confusion, so much so in some of them, that a real circus or carnival is actually better organized and displayed
4. immediate jumps again away from the Acts 2 Scripture evidence, and instead to the subject of healings and other such gifts of The Holy Spirit
5. That the cloven tongue is just a "sound", and not heard as known language dialects by those present, which again is an attempt to deny the actual Acts 2 evidence that everyone present understood in their own language of birth WITHOUT the need of an interpreter by any man
6. Using an idea that those who deny the gibberish tongue "dance around the scripture references that actually support it", while those have difficulty in recognizing the ACTUAL Scripture reference of Acts 2 where it is... clearly expounded

They don't really want to know what God's Word actually reveals about it in Acts 2, which is a show like rebellious Israel per Isaiah 30:10, "Prophesy not unto us right things; speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits".
Well,you are cessationist.
Those teachers will not take you into a complete study so you can mentally GRASP THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT.

Pssssst ...there ain't a single instance of ANYTHING SUPERNATURAL in the word where they went to the"bible" first,got a "mental ok " from John McArthur then on a Baptist blessing proceeded forward.
 
E

ember

Guest
They don't really want to know what God's Word actually reveals about it in Acts 2, which is a show like rebellious Israel per Isaiah 30:10, "Prophesy not unto us right things; speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits".
This is actually slanderous IMO.

Talk about judging and then throwing folks off a cliff

No mirrors where that came from
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
I have been to a few of Pentecostal Services. They scared the be-geebers out of me. I have to wonder what spirit they were really plugged into.

We have the right to worship anyway we want to. But for me. I'm Good.

Kefa
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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Well,you are cessationist.
Those teachers will not take you into a complete study so you can mentally GRASP THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT.

Pssssst ...there ain't a single instance of ANYTHING SUPERNATURAL in the word where they went to the"bible" first,got a "mental ok " from John McArthur then on a Baptist blessing proceeded forward.
Like I reveled before from Isaiah, some Christian brethren today still exhibit the old rebelliousness of paganism that old Israel fell into. That is what their inability to recognize the true cloven tongue from God according the evidence in the Acts 2 chapter shows.
 
E

ember

Guest
I have been to a few of Pentecostal Services. They scared the be-geebers out of me. I have to wonder what spirit they were really plugged into.

We have the right to worship anyway we want to. But for me. I'm Good.

Kefa
Well I'm not Pentecostal and frankly, I won't be going to any services

However, I have been to quite a few dead services that made me wonder if God were real!

Guess the truth must be in the middle somewhere...or maybe in the Bible.....
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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The evidence of the cloven tongue per Acts 2 as laid out by... The Holy Spirit, through subject alternation.

God's Word often repeats a matter in the manuscripts that outlines the subject in a certain perfect order, which is evidence of The Holy Spirit unction working through the hand of God's servants.


Greek is to the left - KJV English is to the right

a - glossa - "tongues" (Acts 2:3)
a - glossa - "tongues" (2:4)
----b - dialektos - "language" (2:6)
----b - dialektos - "tongue" (2:8)
a - glossa - "tongues" (2:11)
a - glossa - "tongue" (2:25)


Greek glossa means known languages of the world. Greek dialektos is where our English word dialect comes from, and means even the slang and idioms contained with a language which can also be region dependent.

This type of alternation outline consistently happens throughout the manuscripts of God's Word. It reveals The Holy Spirit's influence upon the writers, because God's Word is the ONLY type of literature known that does this kind of thing. So the next time you read God's Word, especially OT Scripture, and you catch a certain topic being constantly repeated, it is The Holy Spirit fulfilling this type of subject alternation.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Like I reveled before from Isaiah, some Christian brethren today still exhibit the old rebelliousness of paganism that old Israel fell into. That is what their inability to recognize the true cloven tongue from God according the evidence in the Acts 2 chapter shows.
What you are doing is mentally analysing spiritual things.

That is why you use a mental approach and miss the target.

What came first in pentecost ? law referees?.....or did God show up in spite of the doubters?

Who got your doctrinal purity test before commencing the tongues? Amazing how God does not consult us for permission.

Oh,wait you guys were in fact there;

acts 2;11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel




1 cor 14;

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

See that? where is your correctness? It clearly says there are tongues present,but there are those there that DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAID.


22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Well that's just great. Now Paul is confused because John Mcarthur tells us tongues are given to allow us to speak other languages to unbelievers.

And here in 1 cor 14 we have a teaching by Paul that if the church comes together and worships in tongues the unbelievers will be ignorant of what is said.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
What you are doing is mentally analysing spiritual things.

That is why you use a mental approach and miss the target.

What came first in pentecost ? law referees?.....or did God show up in spite of the doubters?

Who got your doctrinal purity test before commencing the tongues? Amazing how God does not consult us for permission.

Oh,wait you guys were in fact there;

acts 2;11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel




1 cor 14;

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

See that? where is your correctness? It clearly says there are tongues present,but there are those there that DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAID.


22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Well that's just great. Now Paul is confused because John Mcarthur tells us tongues are given to allow us to speak other languages to unbelievers.

And here in 1 cor 14 we have a teaching by Paul that if the church comes together and worships in tongues the unbelievers will be ignorant of what is said.

Just like some others here who claim the gibberish they speak is the cloven tongue of Pentecost, you fail to understand the Acts 2 evidence of the true cloven tongue, and the writings of Paul about known languages of the world.

The particular SIGN of Acts 2 about the cloven tongue is that EVERYONE PRESENT UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE APOSTLES WERE SPEAKING, even in their OWN dialects of the region where they were born. That's not the tongue idea you're talking about at all!

And what did those who heard in their own dialect hear the Apostles speaking on that day? They heard them speak "the wonderful works of God" per Acts 2:11. God is not the author of confusion.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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There is no such thing as 'spoken' "cloven tongues". Note the Scripture:

Acts 2:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.

Acts 2:3 (TEV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then they saw what looked like tongues of fire which spread out and touched each person there.

Acts 2:3 (NLT)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them.

The tongues of fire was a literal visual representation of the Holy Spirit baptism, which as far as I know, the visual portion has never been repeated in scripture or anywhere else.

If someone wants to speak their knowledge on a subject, I think it only proper that they get some first.

Proverbs 13:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

[HR][/HR]Proverbs 16:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.
[HR][/HR]Proverbs 26:4 (NASB) [SUP]4 [/SUP]Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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There is no such thing as 'spoken' "cloven tongues". Note the Scripture:

Acts 2:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.

Acts 2:3 (TEV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then they saw what looked like tongues of fire which spread out and touched each person there.

Acts 2:3 (NLT)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them.

The tongues of fire was a literal visual representation of the Holy Spirit baptism, which as far as I know, the visual portion has never been repeated in scripture or anywhere else.

If someone wants to speak their knowledge on a subject, I think it only proper that they get some first.

Proverbs 13:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

[HR][/HR]Proverbs 16:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.
[HR][/HR]Proverbs 26:4 (NASB) [SUP]4 [/SUP]Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
I been watching this thread, wondering if anyone was going to get wise enough to mention the fact that "cloven" actually had nothing at all to do with language tongues.
 
Last edited:

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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Exactly Willie, the 'cloven tongues' describes the Holy Spirit manifestation of fire that settled upon them, and not what they were saying as a result of it.

I also become suspicious whenever someone repeats the same verse repeatedly by, of, and solely by itself. It's a sign of advanced tunnel vision, which unfortunately it seems far far too many here suffer from.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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Now that's certainly a new 'twist' against the Acts 2, saying that the cloven tongue of Pentecost had nothing to do with languages!

Especially when the very 'dialect' (Greek dialektos) is pointed out in Acts 2 that that's what the people present heard the Apostles speak!!!

Since when is a 'dialect' NOT directly connected to a known language of the world??? I didn't know that, can someone prove that?? Not!
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
349
228
43
Now that's certainly a new 'twist' against the Acts 2, saying that the cloven tongue of Pentecost had nothing to do with languages!

Especially when the very 'dialect' (Greek dialektos) is pointed out in Acts 2 that that's what the people present heard the Apostles speak!!!

Since when is a 'dialect' NOT directly connected to a known language of the world??? I didn't know that, can someone prove that?? Not!
I just go by what's written in Act 2:3. Cloven tongues of fire, DP. The spoken tongues were something else. But Paul teaches about this in 1 Cor. 12-14.
 
R

ritelec

Guest
I'ma thinkin,

It says the following...

1. Tongues

Mark 16:14-18

Speaking only to the 11, and only to the believing of the 11…………...

not to anyone else………...

Have you seen my lear jet?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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I just go by what's written in Act 2:3. Cloven tongues of fire, DP. The spoken tongues were something else. But Paul teaches about this in 1 Cor. 12-14.
No, they weren't "something else" as you say. There again is yet another denial of the written evidence in Acts 2 that those present heard in their OWN languages of birth, even the dialects of their languages, which is very specific to a region one is raised.

Acts 2:5-8
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV

The Greek word for "language" in Acts 2:6 is the word 'dialektos', and it means 'dialect'. Each person not only heard their own language of birth being spoken, but the very 'dialect' of that language of the region where they lived.
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
349
228
43
No, they weren't "something else" as you say. There again is yet another denial of the written evidence in Acts 2 that those present heard in their OWN languages of birth, even the dialects of their languages, which is very specific to a region one is raised.

Acts 2:5-8
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV

The Greek word for "language" in Acts 2:6 is the word 'dialektos', and it means 'dialect'. Each person not only heard their own language of birth being spoken, but the very 'dialect' of that language of the region where they lived.
Actually, the cloven (or divided, or distributed) tongues of fire weren't languages, but not surprisingly, fire, διαμεριζόμεναι γλῶσσαι ὡσεὶ πυρὸς (= divided tongues like fire). What point are you making though? Can we get to the nub of the thing? Are you saying that tongues are never anything else but world languages?