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K
Thank you blondie.Its going to take a while to get over. I have a big back yard luckily so I'll lay him to rest there under the tree. He was a beautiful boy,lots of long white fur.Everyone stopped me when they saw him and asked his breed. At least I had him bred so I have his daughter still.A little bit of him.
H
I have studied the Bible for 54 yrs; It has been a delightful life. God's word has kept me going on in a joyful spirit as God has given me much joy in amid the great sorrows of my life. God has ordered it all from His throne. The good and the bad. I accept it all from the hand of Jesus, and the Father and the Holy Spirit. This thread is a very important one to get Christian to think, reason out ,analyze the word of God as they read it. How anyone can study the Bible and come up with the idea that God rejected Israel in 70 a, blows my mind.! It is calling God a retard, and a liar. You guys have done a great job proving that God is again working with the nation of Israel. Paul taught that Jesus could not come back to earth with out Israel in their land of Israel. Love to all, Hoffco. More latter, I trust in God's mercy, God willing, I trust to be around for a while longer.!
Nowhere does it say it was temporarily. There is no suggestion of a return anywhere in the New Testament. The return mentioned in the Old Testament had already taken place.
The truth is that the coming of the Messiah was God's ultimate act, the final solution, resulting in the establishment of God's Kingly Rule on earth prior to final judgment. To require anything further than that is to debase Christ. All things are summed up in Him. At the end of this age the eternal kingdom will be set up in the spiritual new earth which flesh and blood cannot inherit
The truth is that the coming of the Messiah was God's ultimate act, the final solution, resulting in the establishment of God's Kingly Rule on earth prior to final judgment. To require anything further than that is to debase Christ. All things are summed up in Him. At the end of this age the eternal kingdom will be set up in the spiritual new earth which flesh and blood cannot inherit
Revelation 21:10-14 (KJV)
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church
. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church
. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.He did not reject Israel. Israel continued in the form of the people of God, those who believed in the Messiah. But He certainly rejected unbelieving Israel. The true Israel has survived and flourished through persecution for the last 2000 years and will continue until they are gathered to Him.
The problem with many of you is that you do not recognise that Jesus sums up Israel in Himself. He, and those whom He has won to Himself, is the fulfilment of all the promises. There can be nothing better.
You American Christians are good at doing that.
Y He has been working with the true nation of Israel over the last 2000 years in the spreading of the Kingly Rule of God.
Where? It is not in my Bible. Like so many you just invent things in your own mind.
The problem with many of you is that you do not recognise that Jesus sums up Israel in Himself. He, and those whom He has won to Himself, is the fulfilment of all the promises. There can be nothing better.
You American Christians are good at doing that.
Y He has been working with the true nation of Israel over the last 2000 years in the spreading of the Kingly Rule of God.
Where? It is not in my Bible. Like so many you just invent things in your own mind.
Revelation 21:10-14 (KJV)
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church
. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.
Originally Posted by passing_through
My thanks to all those who have refuted the Replacement Doctrine, the Jews are still in covenant with God, do you think the Davidic Covernant has been made of non effect, no it is eternal, and the Jews ever remain God's chosen people.
The New was in the Old concealed. The Old is in the New revealed.
It's actually speaking of 4 groups; the believing remnant which God reserved unto Himself in Christ Jesus, and then the portion of unbelieving Israel which God blinded so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, then the believing Gentiles, and then unbelieving Gentiles that Paul warned will also be cut off if they remain in unbelief like those of Israel that God blinded.
So poor Jesus got it wrong again? 'The Kingly Rule of God will be taken away from YOU (the unbelieving Jews, and will be given to a nation (the true, new Israel) which will produce its fruits (Matt 21.43).
And you say that God let Him down? Sounds strange to me
I gather you are not part of the holy nation (1 Pet 2.9)?
And you say that God let Him down? Sounds strange to me
I gather you are not part of the holy nation (1 Pet 2.9)?
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I agree with the "bless and pray for their peace" part, and with most everything else you are saying, but I do have a question. First off I personally don't feel like Christians have "replaced" anything, the Jews were chosen to bring forth His plan and started His church, no doubt. I don't see how anyone could think Jews have been "replaced" when there are so many Jewish Christians, and any one of them that doesn't accept Jesus can come to Him at anytime. I do not think anyone has been replaced at all. Having said that I also agree we should, "bless and pray for their peace", but I am curious to find out exactly what you think that requires of us. I feel it is praying for, witnessing to, and pointing them towards Christ as we should for everyone. I also agree the bible clearly states that God will also use them during the end times specifically. What I don't agree with is that this means that I have to send them money to support their wars or agendas in this world no matter what they're doing right now. I don't think it means to support anything they do no matter how against Jesus teachings it goes like is preached in so many pulpits it's scary. I do not feel it means that at all, and was curious to exactly what you mean when you say we should "support" them according to God. Thanks for raising the issue though, I too feel it's an important topic.
Revelation 21:10-14 (KJV)
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I sure find it interesting that the New Jerusalem had 12 gates of the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, whereas the wall had 12 foundations containing the names of the 12 Apostles.
Seems like a bit of distinction between Israel and the Church
. ..and a bit of similarity ,i.e. New Jerusalem.
This is somewhat true, because Paul showed in Rom.11 that God had blinded a portion of Israel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Yet He preserved a remnant of Israel that would believe, and they are the expression of His promises first given through Abraham concerning the Promise by Faith.
The fact that the believing remnant of Israel were involved in the foundation of Christ's Church makes it impossible for Israel to be separated or left out of His Church.
At the same time, it has not been Christ's Church that has persecuted the unbelieving Jews, it has been evil men that favor the work of Lucifer apart from Christ's Church, which some of those evil men just happen to use the Christian Church to hide in to conceal their dirty works. It's important to get the persecutor element correct, otherwise it is like saying the believing remnant of Israel which God reserved as part of Christ's Church are who persecutes Israel.
The fact that the believing remnant of Israel were involved in the foundation of Christ's Church makes it impossible for Israel to be separated or left out of His Church.
At the same time, it has not been Christ's Church that has persecuted the unbelieving Jews, it has been evil men that favor the work of Lucifer apart from Christ's Church, which some of those evil men just happen to use the Christian Church to hide in to conceal their dirty works. It's important to get the persecutor element correct, otherwise it is like saying the believing remnant of Israel which God reserved as part of Christ's Church are who persecutes Israel.
I haven't read thru the whole thread, but will add a few verses to ponder how God looks upon the heart, not by outward appearances, or according to the flesh.
1 Samuel 16:7 "But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Men tend to judge by appearances=according to the flesh, but not God
John 8:15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
So a Jew is determined by God as one who is inward in the heart, not outward according to appearances=flesh and blood seed.
Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
Romans 9:6-9[SUP] "[/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Promise of the Father is the seal of the Holy Spirit....nothing to do with flesh and blood, but rather the children of faith are counted for the seed.
Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
God's chosen people are born again of His Spirit, flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Samuel 16:7 "But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Men tend to judge by appearances=according to the flesh, but not God
John 8:15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
So a Jew is determined by God as one who is inward in the heart, not outward according to appearances=flesh and blood seed.
Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
Romans 9:6-9[SUP] "[/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Promise of the Father is the seal of the Holy Spirit....nothing to do with flesh and blood, but rather the children of faith are counted for the seed.
Galatians 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
God's chosen people are born again of His Spirit, flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Regarding Israel God said:
"For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. (Deut.7:6)
The above is just one example off the top of my head. Also, seventy 'sevens' were decreed upon Israel and her holy city Jerusalem, with sixty-nine of those seven year periods already being fulfilled. That last seven year period, which is coming quickly, also known as the day of the Lord and the time of Jacob's trouble, will complete the seventy 'sevens'. Regarding this, scripture is clear both in Mt.24:15-21 and Rev.12:5,14, that at the setting up of the abomination in the holy place within the coming temple, the nation Israel proper, will flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where she will be cared for during that last 3 1/2 years until the Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
"For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. (Deut.7:6)
The above is just one example off the top of my head. Also, seventy 'sevens' were decreed upon Israel and her holy city Jerusalem, with sixty-nine of those seven year periods already being fulfilled. That last seven year period, which is coming quickly, also known as the day of the Lord and the time of Jacob's trouble, will complete the seventy 'sevens'. Regarding this, scripture is clear both in Mt.24:15-21 and Rev.12:5,14, that at the setting up of the abomination in the holy place within the coming temple, the nation Israel proper, will flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where she will be cared for during that last 3 1/2 years until the Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.