Undeniably overwhelming and resounding proof of the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
113
#21
WOF is such an old heresy rebuffed by none other than God's Word itself...

1 John 5:14-15 KJVS
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Claim it all you want, but it also has to be according to His will.
 
G

Goodness11

Guest
#23
I will give you a small example.
Years ago I had a girlfriend who had a nasty chest cold and didn't want to kiss me because she didn't want me to catch the same thing she had. Back then, we kissed long, hard, and often, if you know what I mean. I was very worldly. I assured her over and over again, that I wouldn't get anything, because to me, she didn't have a cold, which was a lie, but I didn't know it at the time.
At that time, I always got what went around, and didn't know anything about faith, but because I believed I wouldn't get anything, I never even got one symptom.
Let's use your example as another example. You 'had' a girlfriend. You obviously at that time really believed in faith; but your faith did not keep you and your girlfriend together. Why?? Was your faith not strong enough at the time, maybe her faith lacked; or do you suppose God had someone else planned for you? It does say you are now married. So who ultimately is in control; God or your faith? You can really use this blind faith for any day of the week and state it works. I have seen prayers work miracles; but I have also seen zero results- it's the will of God; not the lack of character of the person or individual. Instead of trusting in God's will, you are blaming the people for giving in to sin, not believing strongly enough, or lacking some strength in life. It's a very critical stance upon others.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#24
WOF is such an old heresy rebuffed by none other than God's Word itself...

1 John 5:14-15 KJVS
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Claim it all you want, but it also has to be according to His will.
And sometimes we suffer according to his will.

1 Peter 4:19 (NASB95)
19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.


2 Corinthians 12:9 (NASB95)
9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Suffering for blessing. We have the opportunity to glorify God through our sufferings. Are we going to whine and complain and try to get out of it.....or are we going to apply the doctrine in our souls and utilize His problem solving devices. and bring glory to Him through our sufferings?

Not that I have arrived, but I do know that Gods word does not teach"how do I get out of this?" But rather, "How do I get THROUGH this?"




 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
63
#25
Lake of Fire. the Great White throne judgement for unbelievers only.
Thank you sir.
To answer your question sir, the obviously answer is, no.
The Law of faith has it's limits like the law of lift. Every law God has established by His word has conditions, parameters, and limits.
Neither can one cause God to cease to exist simply by believing there is no God.
Basically, WOF is used to change a current or foreseeable natural event.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
63
#26
WOF is such an old heresy rebuffed by none other than God's Word itself...

1 John 5:14-15 KJVS
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Claim it all you want, but it also has to be according to His will.
Knowing the will of God.
What is the will of God, or how can we know what His will is?
God is sovereign, but His word is His will, it is a law that is established forever in heaven. He has put His word above all His names, and He has to perform it, because Jesus IS the Word of God, therefore He cannot deny Himself. It is said that we cannot put God in a box. Just because you see it that way, doesn't mean it is that way. Again those who say such things reveal their ignorance of God, His will, and how His kingdom operates, when even the devil moved His hand against Job and the people moved Jesus to do what they wanted by healing and delievering them? God has limited Himself in many things because of our faith, not because of a lack of willingness on His part. If God didn't want something or a law a certain way, He is smart enough to know what laws and restrictions to set and what not to set. God has to do what He said He would do in His word. If He doesn't, then He lied.
1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
So if it is His will, whatever we ask for will be given to us, for He will hear us. Since hearing is associated with doing. Isn't that what this verse says? Which means, if you don't know what His will is, then you don't know if He heard you, therefore you will not have any confidence that what you asked for has been given to you or done. At best, it will be the same old wishful thinking or hoping, that I mentioned above. It's not going to happen. God doesn't answer hopeful prayers.
So how do we know if what we desire is His will or not?
If you don't believe what God said in His word, if you don't know if He wants you and your loved ones healthy and/or healed, then you are in for some hard times and big time failures.
Most of you, act like you are in a boat with no powered motor, in a fast moving river. And for some of you, there is a huge waterfall at the end. And you just wait for it.
If you are waiting to see what happens or what the outcome will be after you pray, to see whether or not it was God's will, or to determine what His will was, then again, you are in for the same kind of fall or failures. If this is your method for finding out what the will of God is, then you have seriously and completely missed it. What do you think, "fight the good fight of faith" means? It didn't say fight the fight of THE FAITH, which would refer to the Christian faith. But of faith, which is referring to the thing in which you are/were praying for or desiring. If you don't know what the will of God is before you pray, then you are simply HOPING. Is that what you were doing to get yourself saved? Were you hoping God would save you when you said the sinner's prayer, asking Jesus to come into your heart and to be lord of your life? If you did, then you didn't get saved my friend. Do you find in scripture, that God will give you what you hope for apart from faith? And yet most of you do just that when you pray, because you don't know what His will is. If it is not hoping then it is wishing, when you say, "I will wait and see what happens" or when you stupidly pray in total ignorance, "if it be His will". In most cases, nothing happens, so you say, 'I GUESS it wasn't God's will after all'. Using the outcome to determine the will of God. Which is why most of you had to pervert the word of God to explain away or say why your prayers failed in the first place, and to explain why it wasn't God's will to heal so and so. WHERE IN THE BIBLE DID YOU READ THAT CRAP?! Talk about a doctrine of devils,... that's it! That's what I call stupidity personified! And yet most of you do just that. How do I know? Well first of all, many of you have written that foolishness and argued against the doctrine of WOF, NICI, and BIGI on CC. And secondly, if you don't know that name it claim it, as you like to call it, is a truth of God, then you don't know how faith works, and if you don't know how faith works, then you too will fall to the foolishness of hoping it to be, “His will”. For that IS one form of faith in action.
Where have you read in the bible that the God kind of faith was based on, the uncertainty of knowing God's will, or believing in a particular person, situation, circumstance, the words of a person, like a doctor, hope or wishful thinking, wavering, double minded, medication, treatments, or in any other thing in this world? In short, the God like or God kind of faith is based solely on trusting in God's faithfulness to perform His written word. There are of course, other things to consider. Such as what your attitude is and what comes out of your mouth in the interim period. Once you come to know and act on God's word, then as Jesus said, "nothing shall be impossible to you". If you're not sure what God is going to do for you, or what His will is concerning the thing you asked for, then it is not the God kind of faith, and the chances or likelihood of God moving on your behalf is very minimal, because it will be based on hope, not faith. Also, if you are walking in any kind of fear of bad or evil things happening, or the contrary of what you asked for in prayer, then your faith is in the negative and the law of fear, which is the reciprocal of faith, will cause the bad to come to pass in your life as it did in Job's.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
The reciprocal of faith is called, fear. It too is a law of God, and will cause the bad thing in which you believe could happen, to come to pass when you act on that fear. That was one of Job's sins. Like faith, fear requires corresponding action to that which you are afraid of. The more you act on it, the more of a hold it will have on you, and cause the thing which you fear, to come to pass or to manifest itself in the natural.
Everything in the natural world is subject to change, and it is especially true to God and His word, which is law, for His word is forever settled in heaven.
Again, if you want to know what God's will is, then look at what He said in the bible. For God's word IS His will, and what He said He will do in His word, is exactly what He will do, and nothing short of what is written in His word, because that is what He wanted. The will of God is according to what He wrote/said.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Why do you believe that it is God's will or desire for all men to be saved? Isn't it because He said in His word that He doesn't wish that any should perish?
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Just because you didn't get what you asked for in the past, doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about God, His will, or how the kingdom of heaven operates when you start thinking that it wasn't His will in the first place. Quite the contrary, it reveals your ignorance.
Your pride causes you to pervert scripture by reasoning away or making excuses for your failures to receive, whether it be for yourself or others.
By-the-way, just because you or any other person prays a heart felt prayer with tears and sobings, doesn't mean God will or is obligated to answer. Yes, God is touched by the feelings of our infirmity, but in every case, without faith, God will not and does not move on the behalf of the person praying. God does not watch over our prayers or tears, but over His word. Nor does He move because of our feelings, but because of His faith in us.
This does not however, negate God's love for and toward us. God is love and He still loves us, but He still watches over all His word to perform it. Many people, especially women, don't like to see God this way, and so reject it because they are compassionate and caring, and therefore think God would be the same way.
Mat 23:12 “And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.” The “whosoever” includes you, the so-called child of God. It doesn't matter who you are, for God is no respecter of persons, if you exalt yourself, God WILL humiliate or mortify you.
There are of course times when we need directions, not knowing where to go or what to do. If such is the case, then God tells us to ask Him what to do or where to go in faith, nothing waivering, and He WILL answer. “Nothing waivering” means exactly that,... nothing, not even the slightest doubt. If you waiver any or are double minded even just a little, then God said, “let not that man think that He shall receive ANYTHING of the lord”. That not only means the knowledge you just asked God for, but for anything else that you might ask Him for. Which translates into, you get absolutely nothing, through hoping, wishing, waivering, being double minded, or fearing. Now are you going to try and tell me again that those who have TRIED this WOF stuff, did so without ANY waivering, not even the least bit? And that you know this for certain, like you can see into there heart? So who do you think I'm going to believe, when I am told that so and so believed that way and died? You or that which is written in the bible?
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
If you will notice, the word says, “...and it SHALL be given him”. Did you see a 'maybe' in there anywhere. What about, 'if it be His will', it shall be given him? Well, if you didn't see it there to start with, then why do you continue putting it there, or adding to it, as though it is there or that it's suppose to be there, while condemning those who believe it the way it is written? I thought the bible was suppose to be the source of your faith in which you believe. Well, the bible is no longer God's word if you keep rewriting it, to say what you want it to say, or what you have been taught. Why don't you just believe the pure word of God, just as it is written, instead of turning His word into a lie of the devil.
If God refuses to give you anything you ask for because of your lack of faith, then it would hold true to that which you speak, say, or command as well. Even if you say it in the name of Jesus. Though every knee has to bow at the name of Jesus, without faith, it has no power. The same holds true with the word of God. Without faith, there is no power in it. Same thing with your prayers, without faith, no power in it and nothing will happen.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#27
This thread is in response to a request to show or prove via scripture, that name it claim it is not a heresy, as it has been said by so many professing Christians, but a truth of God's word. What one does with this truth, has no bearing on what is written in the word of God, nor does it negate the doctrine from being a truth of God. Money, power, and things of this world are not the root of all evil, but the love of them is the root of evil. Guns are not evil, but how you use them, and on whom or what, and for what purpose could be evil. Do we say cars are evil because they are the cause of many people's injuries and deaths? If a car is not evil or of the devil when so many people behind the wheel of an automobile are neglectful of their condition while driving, then neither should a doctrine be of the devil just because so many people abuse it. Nor should it be shunned because of a dislike toward a person or denomination. It's not the doctrine that's evil, like it's not the car, it's the person who turned the law of God into a curse. This law can be used for either good or evil, depending on the condition of the heart of the person. Whether any of you know it or not, most of you use it in your own lives for evil or to your own detriment. You use NICI unwittingly to your own hurt. You curse your own lives and that of your family's without realizing it. You believe more what you see and feel than what the word of God says. Read the second kind of person in the sower sowing seed parable.
Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And [the seed] hav[ing] no root in themselves [their heart], and so endure but for a time [which for a while, believe]: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended, [and fall away from the truth, or the plant dries up and dies].
Sadly, much of the persecution comes from other so called Christians, in the form of belittling remarks, demon chasers, law oriented know-it-alls, teachers, preachers, and the like.
Because Christians, being carnally minded, look at the situation and keep that before their eyes, instead of the word of God, like Peter did when he was walking on the water and started to sink when he doubted, they too will fall away or turned from the truth and sink, as they chose to believe the situation, which is a lie, over God and His word.
The third kind of person in the sower sowing seed, whose seed got choked by the weeds because of the condition of their heart, are the same kind who have taken and used the word of God for their own gain and turned a truth or law of God into a curse, lusting for the things they used the word of God to get.
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
They are the kind of people whose heart has turned from the word and from God Himself, to the things of this world, and have abused the truth of the gospel of God's word.
If I pray for a person's healing and/or deliverance, and bind the spirit that is the source of the condition from operating in that person's life, then command the foul thing to leave, then thank God for performing His word in the life of the person I prayed for, before seeing any sign of change, saying, "thank you Father for healing or delivering this person by your word in the name of Jesus." Have I sinned or done anything wrong before God when I named and claimed what I want to happen concerning the healing or deliverance of the person I prayed for? When I cast out an evil spirit, I am in essence, commanding the hand of God to move on my behalf for the person I prayed for through naming what I want done, then claiming it as done, then seeing it manifest in the natural.
Have you ever asked the question of how the devil got to be the god of this world and whose power he took and is using? If God gave Adam the power to rule over everything in this world, and made him the god of this world, and the devil took that power from Adam when he sinned against God, then he is using God's power and moving the hand of God against everyone that opposes him. If God upholds all natural and spiritual laws by the word of His power, then the devil has to be moving the hand of God in order for him to have any effect in the natural world, for all power comes from and is performed by the Spirit of God, who watches over ever law that God Himself put in place. So if the devil is using spiritual laws put in place by God for evil, then we, as God's children can use the higher laws established through the covenant of Christ's work on the cross for good or evil.
Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
The bible translations that put this verse as a question, as though saying, 'you dare question me concerning the works of my hands?', I believe are incorrect. You commanded the hand of God to move on your behalf when you asked for Jesus to be lord of you life, then claimed your salvation with thanksgiving for doing it before hearing anything from God Himself. You didn't ask Him if it was His will, you just assumed it was, based on what you read or were told by others, and that He would do what He said in His word, then when you thanked Him for doing it, you moved the hand of God to make you His Child. For it was only after you thanked Him that you were born again. For you had to believe it was already done before it was done.
Again, I commanded the work of God's finger to cast out a spirit in the name of Jesus, by naming what I want done to that spirit, then claiming it as done in faith with thanksgiving. Trusting God to perform His word of faith for me. And God does it. It's the same thing Jesus did every time He bound and cast out a spirit.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;...
If this sign and the others which I omitted, are not following you, then either you are doing nothing, or you do not truly believe, for you shall know them by the fruit they produce. The fruit isn't just to determine whether a person is of God or not, but it also is to show whether they believe a particular thing or not. But if the signs follow me and others who do believe, then how is it of the devil? If this happens on a consistent basis, then how can it be a doctrine of devils. It is written, that God will not hear a sinner. If that be true, then why do others and myself get results? Again it is written, that God IS truth and in Him is NO lie, and that He watches over and hastens to perform HIS word. Are you saying that God Himself is performing the word or lie of the devil? Are you saying the spirit in myself and others who have bound and cast out devils, is of the devil and not of God? That is what the Scribes and Pharisees said of Jesus, but He said to them that what they had said was the unpardonable sin! Are you saying that the doctrine is a lie of the devil? Jesus said, "how can Satan cast out Satan?", every kingdom divided against itself cannot stand but has an end. If Satan be divided against Himself, how can his kingdom stand? Are you so blind, deaf, dumb, and stupid, as the Scribes and Pharisees, whom Jesus rebuked? The bible says, if anyone preach any other gospel, let him be accursed. I am telling you that this is part of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. If it be another gospel, then I am accursed for preaching another gospel. But if I am correct, then it is you who is, most assuredly, the accursed ones.
It was then said, that you who appose the doctrine, would check the original language for accuracy in the interpretations. That would be a 180 degree change from what everyone has been doing up to the present. No one has checked scripture with a pure heart, to find out if what I have been saying is a truth of God's word or not. Which shouts resoundingly, that all of you who have argued against WOF, NICI, OR BIGI, have done so in complete ignorance. Spouting off what you know nothing about. It shows that you have been blind fools, condemning both those who believe the doctrine and the doctrine itself. It is like a judge calling someone guilty before even hearing the case or ignoring all the evidence. That's why I don't even listen to most of you. You have judged and condemned something you can't even prove to be worthy of being judged and condemned. You have built a doctrine of lies based on maybe one scripture verse at best. The evolutionists did the same thing with the tooth of a pig to build an entire prehistoric missing ape like link, in an attempt to prove the bible or creation to be false or incorrect. Unless you judge yourselves and repent, you will be without excuse when you yourselves are judged by God. So please, by all means, do what I have already done and check for yourselves without all the bias and hatred toward the doctrine. Don't turn a deaf ear just because you don't like the doctrine, or me, or because of my refusal to bow to your belittling pressure tactics, or because of how I write things. Turn to God for the answer and seek Him with a pure heart, that you may know the truth. For those of you who have hardened your heart to the doctrine, God will not allow you to be able to see the truth of it, because the ground in your heart will be too hard for it to take root and the devil will snatch it away immediately, before it even has time to take any root.
Before I can give scripture from the bible to prove name it claim it is of God and is truth, I thought it necessary to divide them into various categories, that you might be able to follow my line of thought. Without it, you will miss much of what I will show you and the truths behind the doctrine itself.
None of the verses you posted even remotely comes close to proving the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#29
Knowing the will of God.
What is the will of God, or how can we know what His will is?
God is sovereign, but His word is His will, it is a law that is established forever in heaven. He has put His word above all His names, and He has to perform it, because Jesus IS the Word of God, therefore He cannot deny Himself. It is said that we cannot put God in a box. Just because you see it that way, doesn't mean it is that way. Again those who say such things reveal their ignorance of God, His will, and how His kingdom operates, when even the devil moved His hand against Job and the people moved Jesus to do what they wanted by healing and delievering them? God has limited Himself in many things because of our faith, not because of a lack of willingness on His part. If God didn't want something or a law a certain way, He is smart enough to know what laws and restrictions to set and what not to set. God has to do what He said He would do in His word. If He doesn't, then He lied.
1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
So if it is His will, whatever we ask for will be given to us, for He will hear us. Since hearing is associated with doing. Isn't that what this verse says? Which means, if you don't know what His will is, then you don't know if He heard you, therefore you will not have any confidence that what you asked for has been given to you or done. At best, it will be the same old wishful thinking or hoping, that I mentioned above. It's not going to happen. God doesn't answer hopeful prayers.
So how do we know if what we desire is His will or not?
If you don't believe what God said in His word, if you don't know if He wants you and your loved ones healthy and/or healed, then you are in for some hard times and big time failures.
Most of you, act like you are in a boat with no powered motor, in a fast moving river. And for some of you, there is a huge waterfall at the end. And you just wait for it.
If you are waiting to see what happens or what the outcome will be after you pray, to see whether or not it was God's will, or to determine what His will was, then again, you are in for the same kind of fall or failures. If this is your method for finding out what the will of God is, then you have seriously and completely missed it. What do you think, "fight the good fight of faith" means? It didn't say fight the fight of THE FAITH, which would refer to the Christian faith. But of faith, which is referring to the thing in which you are/were praying for or desiring. If you don't know what the will of God is before you pray, then you are simply HOPING. Is that what you were doing to get yourself saved? Were you hoping God would save you when you said the sinner's prayer, asking Jesus to come into your heart and to be lord of your life? If you did, then you didn't get saved my friend. Do you find in scripture, that God will give you what you hope for apart from faith? And yet most of you do just that when you pray, because you don't know what His will is. If it is not hoping then it is wishing, when you say, "I will wait and see what happens" or when you stupidly pray in total ignorance, "if it be His will". In most cases, nothing happens, so you say, 'I GUESS it wasn't God's will after all'. Using the outcome to determine the will of God. Which is why most of you had to pervert the word of God to explain away or say why your prayers failed in the first place, and to explain why it wasn't God's will to heal so and so. WHERE IN THE BIBLE DID YOU READ THAT CRAP?! Talk about a doctrine of devils,... that's it! That's what I call stupidity personified! And yet most of you do just that. How do I know? Well first of all, many of you have written that foolishness and argued against the doctrine of WOF, NICI, and BIGI on CC. And secondly, if you don't know that name it claim it, as you like to call it, is a truth of God, then you don't know how faith works, and if you don't know how faith works, then you too will fall to the foolishness of hoping it to be, “His will”. For that IS one form of faith in action.
Where have you read in the bible that the God kind of faith was based on, the uncertainty of knowing God's will, or believing in a particular person, situation, circumstance, the words of a person, like a doctor, hope or wishful thinking, wavering, double minded, medication, treatments, or in any other thing in this world? In short, the God like or God kind of faith is based solely on trusting in God's faithfulness to perform His written word. There are of course, other things to consider. Such as what your attitude is and what comes out of your mouth in the interim period. Once you come to know and act on God's word, then as Jesus said, "nothing shall be impossible to you". If you're not sure what God is going to do for you, or what His will is concerning the thing you asked for, then it is not the God kind of faith, and the chances or likelihood of God moving on your behalf is very minimal, because it will be based on hope, not faith. Also, if you are walking in any kind of fear of bad or evil things happening, or the contrary of what you asked for in prayer, then your faith is in the negative and the law of fear, which is the reciprocal of faith, will cause the bad to come to pass in your life as it did in Job's.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
The reciprocal of faith is called, fear. It too is a law of God, and will cause the bad thing in which you believe could happen, to come to pass when you act on that fear. That was one of Job's sins. Like faith, fear requires corresponding action to that which you are afraid of. The more you act on it, the more of a hold it will have on you, and cause the thing which you fear, to come to pass or to manifest itself in the natural.
Everything in the natural world is subject to change, and it is especially true to God and His word, which is law, for His word is forever settled in heaven.
Again, if you want to know what God's will is, then look at what He said in the bible. For God's word IS His will, and what He said He will do in His word, is exactly what He will do, and nothing short of what is written in His word, because that is what He wanted. The will of God is according to what He wrote/said.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Why do you believe that it is God's will or desire for all men to be saved? Isn't it because He said in His word that He doesn't wish that any should perish?
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Just because you didn't get what you asked for in the past, doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about God, His will, or how the kingdom of heaven operates when you start thinking that it wasn't His will in the first place. Quite the contrary, it reveals your ignorance.
Your pride causes you to pervert scripture by reasoning away or making excuses for your failures to receive, whether it be for yourself or others.
By-the-way, just because you or any other person prays a heart felt prayer with tears and sobings, doesn't mean God will or is obligated to answer. Yes, God is touched by the feelings of our infirmity, but in every case, without faith, God will not and does not move on the behalf of the person praying. God does not watch over our prayers or tears, but over His word. Nor does He move because of our feelings, but because of His faith in us.
This does not however, negate God's love for and toward us. God is love and He still loves us, but He still watches over all His word to perform it. Many people, especially women, don't like to see God this way, and so reject it because they are compassionate and caring, and therefore think God would be the same way.
Mat 23:12 “And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.” The “whosoever” includes you, the so-called child of God. It doesn't matter who you are, for God is no respecter of persons, if you exalt yourself, God WILL humiliate or mortify you.
There are of course times when we need directions, not knowing where to go or what to do. If such is the case, then God tells us to ask Him what to do or where to go in faith, nothing waivering, and He WILL answer. “Nothing waivering” means exactly that,... nothing, not even the slightest doubt. If you waiver any or are double minded even just a little, then God said, “let not that man think that He shall receive ANYTHING of the lord”. That not only means the knowledge you just asked God for, but for anything else that you might ask Him for. Which translates into, you get absolutely nothing, through hoping, wishing, waivering, being double minded, or fearing. Now are you going to try and tell me again that those who have TRIED this WOF stuff, did so without ANY waivering, not even the least bit? And that you know this for certain, like you can see into there heart? So who do you think I'm going to believe, when I am told that so and so believed that way and died? You or that which is written in the bible?
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
If you will notice, the word says, “...and it SHALL be given him”. Did you see a 'maybe' in there anywhere. What about, 'if it be His will', it shall be given him? Well, if you didn't see it there to start with, then why do you continue putting it there, or adding to it, as though it is there or that it's suppose to be there, while condemning those who believe it the way it is written? I thought the bible was suppose to be the source of your faith in which you believe. Well, the bible is no longer God's word if you keep rewriting it, to say what you want it to say, or what you have been taught. Why don't you just believe the pure word of God, just as it is written, instead of turning His word into a lie of the devil.
If God refuses to give you anything you ask for because of your lack of faith, then it would hold true to that which you speak, say, or command as well. Even if you say it in the name of Jesus. Though every knee has to bow at the name of Jesus, without faith, it has no power. The same holds true with the word of God. Without faith, there is no power in it. Same thing with your prayers, without faith, no power in it and nothing will happen.
Have you ever prayed that God brings in suffering to your life? We suffer according to His will.

1 Peter 4:19 (NASB95)
19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
 
S

shotgunner

Guest
#30
WOF is such an old heresy rebuffed by none other than God's Word itself...

1 John 5:14-15 KJVS
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Claim it all you want, but it also has to be according to His will.
Which is exactly what WOF teaches. WOF teaches standing on God's word. When God gives us a promise in his word it is his will. To think that God would make a promise and not mean it is the worst kind of unbelief.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#31
KNOW1..?So if it is His will, whatever we ask for will be given to us, for He will hear us. Since hearing is associated with doing. Isn't that what this verse says? Which means, if you don't know what His will is, then you don't know if He heard you, therefore you will not have any confidence that what you asked for has been given to you or done. At best, it will be the same old wishful thinking or hoping, that I mentioned above. It's not going to happen. God doesn't answer hopeful prayers.
Just the way you turned around the Scripture in your first sentence renders this discussion useless.

1 John 5:14-15 KJVS
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

It simply means God has His will as well. You can claim all you want, Bridgette as your future wife (I've seen this done alot), but if it isn't God's will, it ain't gonna happen.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#32
Which is exactly what WOF teaches. WOF teaches standing on God's word. When God gives us a promise in his word it is his will. To think that God would make a promise and not mean it is the worst kind of unbelief.
Physical health and wealth and a certain wife this side of heaven aren't the promises given us in Scripture.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,951
113
#33
First, the no idea what BIGI means. Something to do with "getting" from God I presume. (What happened to H&W??)

Second. OP, can't read your posts. WALL OF TEXT! Try adding some spaces between the paragraphs.

Third, nothing you could say or post, including scriptures torn out of context could convince me that WoF was true. I read the whole Bible, I do not listen to false teachers. I had friends that fell into this heresy. One was ordained by Kenneth Copeland. She got breast cancer, refused meds claimed healing and died 10 months later when the cancer spread throughout her body.The other had prostate issues. He ended up having surgery and decided that doctors were very good. He also was reduced to poverty by a JW wife who took him for everything he was worth. At 85, he can't get a job, so he is just stuck living on a tiny pension.

So some verses. God says he will use suffering. God says he will be with us in suffering. God says he loves us unconditionally. And God also says to pray according to his will, as dealt with by others already in this post.

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5

"
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." Isa. 43:1b-3a

"
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you." 1 Peter 1:5

"Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." James 1:2-4


"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us." Romans 8:18

"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33


There are a lot more verses that tell us we will suffer, have problems because we are living in a sin filled word. In fact, if everything is supposed to be so healthy, wealthy and wise, why does John tell us in Revelation that we will start living in a world without tears, death, mourning crying and pain? Because if the world was so perfect for Christians right now, we really wouldn't need Jesus to return, would we? Instead, we live in a world with sadness and despair, with death, hurt and injury. And we look forward to the return of Christ, when everything will be set right!

"
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4


We won't even get into the fact that neither Jesus, the apostles or the early church, or even later churches have ever believed you can get through this life without suffering and trials. Or that we somehow deserve to be rich! This whole heresy started with Kenyon; was picked up by Hagin, who at the end swore to his followers he was healed of his heart disease, although that is what he died from; then popularized by others like Copeland; and down to the present apostles of this heresy, like Meyer, Osteen, Hin and others. Although I will say these televangelists have certainly succeeded in the wealth end of things, by fleecing their desperate and often biblically illiterate flock!

 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
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#34
Let's use your example as another example. You 'had' a girlfriend. You obviously at that time really believed in faith; but your faith did not keep you and your girlfriend together. Why?? Was your faith not strong enough at the time, maybe her faith lacked; or do you suppose God had someone else planned for you? It does say you are now married. So who ultimately is in control; God or your faith? You can really use this blind faith for any day of the week and state it works. I have seen prayers work miracles; but I have also seen zero results- it's the will of God; not the lack of character of the person or individual. Instead of trusting in God's will, you are blaming the people for giving in to sin, not believing strongly enough, or lacking some strength in life. It's a very critical stance upon others.
When God's word states that all who don't receive Christ in their heart by faith will go to hell, did God care about the stance of people? I'm not here to be a people pleaser, nor do I care if the gospel offends the so called believer like it does the unbelievers. sometimes, the truth hurts.
What I believed was that my former girlfriend didn't really have a cold, even though she had all the symptoms. Coughing up stuff should be a giveaway. But I was very dense when I had something in my heart.
No, I knew very little about faith at that time. I certainly didn't know how it worked.
But, truth is, God did have someone different for me. He also showed me another girl I had dated, whom I love, that she was not for me, and I cried like a baby when I told her. I just knew it, even though I didn't want it to happen, and it came to pass, even as I said.
Then one day I wanted to find me a woman and get married, and said, "I'm going to get me a wife". Within a few days, I met a woman, and a month later we were married, and have been so ever since. That was more than 26 years ago. I believe that was God directing my life.
I'm not denying God's will in our lives, but His word states that He will cause us to do His will by His Spirit.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#35
James 2:5 KJVS
[5] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Funny here, how the rich in faith are the poor by worldly standards.
If they were rich in faith according to WOF, they should also be rich in the world.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
63
#36
I'm interested in what you don't agree on beyond that point :)
Sin.
I've seen many fall away due to a simple sin.
Saul failed to obey God, and that sin caused Him to go mad when God sent an evil spirit on him. The rest of his acts are a result of that madness.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#37
First, the no idea what BIGI means. Something to do with "getting" from God I presume. (What happened to H&W??)

Second. OP, can't read your posts. WALL OF TEXT! Try adding some spaces between the paragraphs.

Third, nothing you could say or post, including scriptures torn out of context could convince me that WoF was true. I read the whole Bible, I do not listen to false teachers. I had friends that fell into this heresy. One was ordained by Kenneth Copeland. She got breast cancer, refused meds claimed healing and died 10 months later when the cancer spread throughout her body.The other had prostate issues. He ended up having surgery and decided that doctors were very good. He also was reduced to poverty by a JW wife who took him for everything he was worth. At 85, he can't get a job, so he is just stuck living on a tiny pension.

So some verses. God says he will use suffering. God says he will be with us in suffering. God says he loves us unconditionally. And God also says to pray according to his will, as dealt with by others already in this post.

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5

"
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." Isa. 43:1b-3a

"
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you." 1 Peter 1:5

"Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." James 1:2-4


"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us." Romans 8:18

"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33


There are a lot more verses that tell us we will suffer, have problems because we are living in a sin filled word. In fact, if everything is supposed to be so healthy, wealthy and wise, why does John tell us in Revelation that we will start living in a world without tears, death, mourning crying and pain? Because if the world was so perfect for Christians right now, we really wouldn't need Jesus to return, would we? Instead, we live in a world with sadness and despair, with death, hurt and injury. And we look forward to the return of Christ, when everything will be set right!

"
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:4


We won't even get into the fact that neither Jesus, the apostles or the early church, or even later churches have ever believed you can get through this life without suffering and trials. Or that we somehow deserve to be rich! This whole heresy started with Kenyon; was picked up by Hagin, who at the end swore to his followers he was healed of his heart disease, although that is what he died from; then popularized by others like Copeland; and down to the present apostles of this heresy, like Meyer, Osteen, Hin and others. Although I will say these televangelists have certainly succeeded in the wealth end of things, by fleecing their desperate and often biblically illiterate flock!

Well said Sister. In fact suffering is our parent in this life. It provides us the privilege and opportunity to glorify God. Do we handle suffering Gods way or ours?

Ultimately.......we should pray to go through what Job went through. He was a mature believer who had the privilege to suffer and Glorify God through his sufferings.............personally though,I am a LOOOOOOOOONG ways off from that kind of prayer!

But Job is a perfect picture of a mature believer suffering for the Glory of God.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
765
113
39
Australia
#38
Sin.
I've seen many fall away due to a simple sin.
Saul failed to obey God, and that sin caused Him to go mad when God sent an evil spirit on him. The rest of his acts are a result of that madness.
Yes, sin certainly is an issue. But I believe one can both be in a position of wealth and power and maintain good character by the power of Holy Spirit.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
63
#39
First, the no idea what BIGI means. Something to do with "getting" from God I presume. (What happened to H&W??)

Second. OP, can't read your posts. WALL OF TEXT! Try adding some spaces between the paragraphs.

Third, nothing you could say or post, including scriptures torn out of context could convince me that WoF was true. I read the whole Bible, I do not listen to false teachers. I had friends that fell into this heresy. One was ordained by Kenneth Copeland. She got breast cancer, refused meds claimed healing and died 10 months later when the cancer spread throughout her body.The other had prostate issues. He ended up having surgery and decided that doctors were very good. He also was reduced to poverty by a JW wife who took him for everything he was worth. At 85, he can't get a job, so he is just stuck living on a tiny pension.
BIGI, blab it grab it.
Sorry 'bout the "wall of text", but I don't have a program that I can copy and paste as it is written. I hope the small changes I've made helps.
I know about all the people who have tried this "faith stuff" and failed, myself included.

I would like to address the issue of someone refusing medication that's on their death bed, because they are "believing God for" their healing. I have heard more than one story about how someone refused medication or treatments because they were trying to believe God for their healing and then died. (And I strongly stress and emphesize the word, trying.) And how those of the WOF belief said of them that failed to receive, that they didn't have enough or the right kind of faith to get their healing. That may or may not be true. There is more than one factor that could be the root cause for the sickness or disease. Until the root is dealt with, the problem will remain. Take care of the root, and there will not be a reoccuring problem.

My mother died trying to believe for her healing, while taking medication. That was before I discovered some important information concerning how to get one's healing.

As for those who refuse medication and/or treatments. Haven't any of you read about those who built their house on the sand before the storm came and beat against that house and how great the fall of it was? What do you think the house, foundation, sand, and storm represented? What does the rock symbolize? If you don't have the word of God in you to where you believe the word over the situation, then you have built your house on the sand, and you will fall. If you are just acting on the word hoping or wishing, but in fear of the worst, then again, your efforts will fail and you will fall. If you believe and accept what the doctors say and receive the medications and/or treatments over what the word of God says, then again, you have built your house on the sand and not on the rock. If you are looking at the world rather than the word concerning your healing, then again, your faith or foundation to your house, is built on the sand. Trusting in people, such as doctors, and in things, like medication, to fix the unwanted problem, over trusting in God and His written word, is like a rich man trusting in his riches to save him from hell, over trusting in God.


In most cases, faith doesn't come instantaneously or over night for things such as healing, as most would have you believe. It has taken me and many others a very long time to get the word in us enough to know that God will do what He said in His word to get our healing through faith. The seed/word of God that is planted in the heart, has to have time to grow, and if you TRY this before the seed has matured enough to bear fruit, during a trying time, you will fall like all the others who tried it and failed. And if it is something that can kill you, then you will die. God is no respecter of persons, reguardless of who you are. If you don't know your rights as a child of God, and/or if you don't exercise those rights, God will let you take that sickness or disease to your grave.


You don't try faith, you do it. I did the same thing with my finances awhile back, and it almost cost me everything and caused me to lose ALL my possessions, and put my family and I out on the street... literally. I know what it is like for this WOF to fail or not work in my favor. I have been there many time myself. But if you continue in God's word, doubting nothing that is written, then you too will come to know the truth, and then the truth will make you free/healed/delivered/... etc. For many people, it takes diligence and a great deal of time in the word, to acquire.


But If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Joh 8:32 And [then] ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So to those who would like God to heal them but pray, “if it be your will Lord,” not knowing if it is His will or not, or what will happen after they pray, or if they accept the situation as the will of God, then it would behove you or the loved one to take the best medications and/or treatments that medical science has to offer, because God does not and will not move on your behalf because of your hoping or wishful thinking. Neither will He perform His word just because you act on it, or were being a doer of the word. Without God's faith, the actions you take for the word's sake will amount to and be for nothing. Again, God is a repector of no persons, that includes you and your loved one, and will not move on your behalf without and apart from faith, for without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. If faith is the only way to please God, then it is only by faith that will get the job done. I know, because I have acted on the word without faith more than once in the past, like that concerning my finances, and I had a 100 percent failure rate.

Why doesn't the word work when you act on it? If faith is dead without works, as the body is without the Spirit, then it would stand to reason, that doers of the word, need the same said faith to give the body or the thing spoken, life and power to manifest in the natural. Even as the our bodies need the spirit for life to function in this world, so does the spirit need the body.


It is not acting on the word without faith, or faith without works, that causes the hand of God to move. It is the acting on the word in faith, that moves the hand of God. It took me a long time to build my faith up with the word of God to where I know that I have what I say and/or what I say is done in the spirit, and will eventually manifest itself in the natural after the will of God has been accomplished. I know now, when I ask for something, it has been given, and has to manifest in the natural, for it is written. That means, what is written has to be done by God Himself, for He cannot lie, nor can He deny Himself by letting His word fail. And no, this is not us putting God in a box, as so many of you like to say. I'm not the one who wrote/said that God will give me whatsoever I ask for in prayer, believing. God did. God is the one who wrote those promises in the bible for us, just like the promise of salvation, which you love so much. Aren't you putting God in a box with your wicked hearts of unbelief, when you say He can't save a certain person, because of their hardness of heart or because they are so wicked, or heal a person because of the kind of sickness or disease they have, and the like? Aren't you putting God in a box when you tell someone to go to the doctors to get help with any medical situation? You don't believe God will do anything, so either you will go yourself or advise someone else to go to the doctor's office or hospital to get medical treatment?

But when I act on the word in faith, in accordance to what I asked for, God causes the thing to manifest itself in the natural. My family and I have received some of the most impossible things, through of this truth.

As for those who don't have the right kind of faith, well, there may be more than one kind of faith, but there is only one kind of God like faith. You can have faith in the natural, and what you understand through logic or natural reasoning, or faith in bad things happening, which is actually the fear of something bad happening. Or you could have faith in astrology, or in good and bad luck, and so on, but it still is not God's faith. What many believe and have mistaken for true faith, is not the God kind of faith at all, but one of hoping and praying in uncertainty. What most really have faith in and for is the natural and/or the negative or bad things happening, while hoping or wishing, with a strong desire, for God to heal them. But it most assuredly is not the God kind of faith. Faith can be either for good or evil, for blessing or cursing. Just like Jesus cursed the fig tree with his faith, by the word of God, we can do the same to ourselves and/or loved ones.


If you couldn't pass a lie detector test, or if your conscience bothers you when you say something in faith before the face of others, then you really are not believing as you have said. The word of God still hasn't taken root in you.

Another thing I would like to be known for those seeking healing and failed to get it is because they lack faith, knowledge of the ways of the kingdom of God, and how God Himself operates or does things.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Another reason why most Christians don't get their healing is because they failed to deal with what could be the root cause. For most, the reason why they have the problem in the first place is because of sin. Whether is was you yourself, a spouse, or a parent, someone did something that God didn't like and He put a curse on you. Therefore, so long as the sin remains, the curse will remain, and so long as the curse remains, the problem will remain, or continue to reoccur and come back.


Many Christians are told that they are washed in the blood of Jesus so they cannot be under any curse, and because Jesus bore the curse for them on the cross. They are also taught that they are sinners saved by grace. Therefore they have a sinner's mentality. So long as you think that you are a sinner, you will act like a sinner. For it is written, “As a man thinks in his heart, so is he”. They are also taught that they can never lose their salvation no matter what they do. But if they were to get off into some serious sin and fail to return, then they were never really saved in the first place. All of these teachings add to their failure to receive from God and keep them sick and afflicted.


One of the most important lessons I learned is that sicknesses, diseases, weaknesses or infirmities, poverty, trips, stumbles, and falls, braking of bones, failures, and the like are a direct result of a curse or curses that have been placed on that person or that person's spouse, or parents, or children by God. And so long as the curse remains, so will the problem remain. Even though many problems can be fixed, at least temporarily, if you see the same problem coming back or one problem after another, then most likely, either you or someone close to you has a curse on them because you or they did something that God didn't like. And until you who are called believers, repent, then healing will be hard to come by.


God judges and chastens His children if we do not judge ourselves by repenting or turning the other way from the sin that brought the curse and condition on us or our loved ones.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we are washed in the blood and no curse can come on us then how is it that many of God's children are sickly and died early because of their sins that they failed to repent of. Why would a just God chastise His children if they have been permanently and perpetually washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus? And why would God tell His children to repent of their sins so that they can be forgiven of their sins and cleansed of all their unrighteousness?

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
167
63
#40
Yes, sin certainly is an issue. But I believe one can both be in a position of wealth and power and maintain good character by the power of Holy Spirit.
Absolutely sir.