RECORD of OSAS

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Perfect love casts out fear :) And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

And to add.

Romans 8:15 [Full Chapter]
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
 
Romans 6:12~~ let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body...........

Paul is talking about our sin nature. our sin nature has 2 sides to it. sin and evil. And the evil side is our own righteousness.

Eating the fruit~~Sin

Fig leaves for our coverings~~Evil.

ALL sin is evil, but not all evil is sin. This is why good and evil are on the SAME tree.

It is a concept totally foreign to us , but trying to follow the law..............is living in sin. We are just living in the evil(human good) side of the flesh. And the law will show us that we ain't Good(Divine good)


Many believers today are living in sin, its just the "good" side of the flesh. They aren't necessarily following "the Law", they are following their OWN righteousness.......evil.

Where do you get your understanding from because it does not come from the Word of God ???

If a person continues to willfully/deliberately sin they still are giving into that sin nature, you can try to reword it as you like but Paul is clearly saying we can not continue to deliberately go on sinning. God forbid he says in emphasizing this point !!!

Where you get fig leaves for covering is evil ???

I do not see this in the bible either as God covering them with animal skin was not saying the fig leaves were evil, but shadowing that which is come through Him.

How do you come by not all evil is sin ???

The bible says anything not of the faith is sin, and evil is not of the faith..........Romans 14:23

Again nobody is saying to follow the law, at least not me, I am however stating the same thing the bible does that by faith we when walking in love establish and fulfill the law.

Grace does not allow lewdness to continue in our lives, those who believe and teach this way that we can continue to be deliberate sinners and have salvation both at the same time needs to reread the epistles.

Apostle Jude in his epistle clearly says teachers that take the Grace of God to allow lewdness are marked for condemnation !!!
 
Also the tree being called the "Tree of Good and Evil," does not mean good and evil are on the same tree.

Lord Jesus clearly disputes this thinking as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit.......Matthew 7:18

The good and evil is the ability to discern between good and evil, not that they reside on the same tree !!!
 
That is the premise you use for supporting OSAS ???

Let's see what the word of God says:

1) There will be those who are drawn away by being deceived......Mentioned all throughout the NT

2) There will those who fall back to perdition............Mentioned in Hebrews

Perdition means one who is headed to the second death in the lake of fire.

3) Jude gives examples to believers to warn them not to fall the same way

Example: He uses those of the Exodus, when it comes to salvation who later, turned their back on God; Exodus 32:33 states they were destroyed and blotted out of the Book of Life.

Blotted out of the Book of Life = No salvation/eternal life

Unlike you, We trust God. To keep us from falling.

Our faith is not in our ability to live up to some standard or to keep ourselves from falling, That wouldl be a faulty and futile faiht, because we do not have that power.

Our faith is in God keeping us in faith, in spite of our selves.



You keep yelling we misrepresent you. But all we do is tell the truth, your the one who can not see it. You teach one thing, then deny it. That is on you, Not us.
 
Also the tree being called the "Tree of Good and Evil," does not mean good and evil are on the same tree.

Lord Jesus clearly disputes this thinking as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit.......Matthew 7:18

The good and evil is the ability to discern between good and evil, not that they reside on the same tree !!!

Ken.........good and evil are the SAME thing in our flesh/sin nature. This is why it takes constant practice and the MEAT of the word for us to discern between good(divine good) and evil (human good).

There is divine Good(Holy Spirit working through us) and human good(Evil/good from our sin nature)


Our sin nature has a SIN side and a good(evil) side or

Our sin nature has a SIN side and a DUNG/menstrual rags side
 
Ken.........good and evil are the SAME thing in our flesh/sin nature. This is why it takes constant practice and the MEAT of the word for us to discern between good(divine good) and evil (human good).

There is divine Good(Holy Spirit working through us) and human good(Evil/good from our sin nature)


Our sin nature has a SIN side and a good(evil) side or

Our sin nature has a SIN side and a DUNG/menstrual rags side

When we are born again we no longer have a sin nature, that is the old self we put off to be new creations in Christ !!!

We now walk by the Spirit not by the flesh, walking by the flesh is the old sin nature that is warned about continuing in in the bible.

This placing good and evil as the same you better be very careful with that, and I see now why some take and call people speaking on doing His righteousness as being self-righteous with this faulty mindset thinking.

Remember taking and attributing His works (righteousness) to that of being evil is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and that is very dangerous as that is unforgivable !!!

The Pharisees accused Jesus of being evil (of the devil) for the works He did to !!!
 
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Why OSAS is true (amongst other reasons)...

Romans 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is the premise you use for supporting OSAS ???

Let's see what the word of God says:

1) There will be those who are drawn away by being deceived......Mentioned all throughout the NT

2) There will those who fall back to perdition............Mentioned in Hebrews

Perdition means one who is headed to the second death in the lake of fire.

3) Jude gives examples to believers to warn them not to fall the same way

Example: He uses those of the Exodus, when it comes to salvation who later, turned their back on God; Exodus 32:33 states they were destroyed and blotted out of the Book of Life.

Blotted out of the Book of Life = No salvation/eternal life
I never said that was the premise I used. One premise I use I already listed in post #50 and is in the pretty blue bubble above.
 
I never said that was the premise I used. One premise I use I already listed in post #50 and is in the pretty blue bubble above.

There is way to many scriptures especially in the epistles of Paul that disputes OSAS as it is taught.

If people would state OSAS as applied to those who once saved remain in the teachings and commands of Jesus then the teaching would be correct.

However the doctrine applies this standard to all believers and makes excuses for those who later fall away or depart from the faith.

The bible is very clear that continuing in His grace and not moved away from the hope of salvation in the gospel, as Colossians 1:22-23 is very clear that being moved away from the gospel is possible. Galatians shows the same !!!
 
Why OSAS is true (amongst other reasons)...

Romans 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This right here crossnote you show the misapplied teachings of the OSAS doctrine, as it pulls scriptures and makes them stand alone.

That is a faulty use of God's word as not even the whole chapter of Romans 5 can be taken without the rest of the epistle, especially that of Romans 6 that follows where Paul warns about allowing sin to continue to reign in our mortal bodies.

Paul is speaking to believers in 6 and tells them if they allow sin to continue to reign that sin is still their true master that will lead to death. The Greek word used for death here is not physical death, but means eternal death (spiritual).
Romans 6:21 (KJV) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

That's only a description of how we lived.

Here's more context to Rom 5 if you need it...Romans 5:8-21 (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice hoe GRACE REIGNS THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST?
 
Crossnote we all know that grace reigns through the righteousness of Christ, which is why the scripture says we are saved by grace through faith. Not grace alone !!!

Also again you take one scripture from Romans 6 to make it stand for the whole chapter, but using scripture does not work that way. All scriptures work together in perfect harmony with each other, if we make them contradict then it is our understand that is wrong not the scriptures.

Apostle Paul clearly is speaking to believers (not people before faith) when he warns about letting sin continue to reign in our mortal bodies. He says if we do that sin is our master that leads to eternal death, but walking/serving His righteousness leads to eternal life.

We can not serve two masters as that makes luke warm individuals that the Lord said he would spit out of His mouth !!!
 
Why OSAS is true (amongst other reasons)...

Romans 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Also the tree being called the "Tree of Good and Evil," does not mean good and evil are on the same tree.

Lord Jesus clearly disputes this thinking as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit.......Matthew 7:18

The good and evil is the ability to discern between good and evil, not that they reside on the same tree !!!
Regarding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil...God didn't say ' trees'.
 
Crossnote we all know that grace reigns through the righteousness of Christ, which is why the scripture says we are saved by grace through faith. Not grace alone !!!

Also again you take one scripture from Romans 6 to make it stand for the whole chapter, but using scripture does not work that way. All scriptures work together in perfect harmony with each other, if we make them contradict then it is our understand that is wrong not the scriptures.

Apostle Paul clearly is speaking to believers (not people before faith) when he warns about letting sin continue to reign in our mortal bodies. He says if we do that sin is our master that leads to eternal death, but walking/serving His righteousness leads to eternal life.

We can not serve two masters as that makes luke warm individuals that the Lord said he would spit out of His mouth !!!
Sure, faith in that grace that reigns through the righteousness of Christ and not our righteousness according to any law we do.

You mentioned death in Rom 6 without the verse reference, so that was the best I could find. Please give references next time you try to build a Scriptural case.

Lukewarmness comes from leaving our First Love, usually after losing site of His great love for us because as the Galatians we revert back to self effort.

Galatians 4:11-17, 19-20 (KJV)
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
 
Sure, faith in that grace that reigns through the righteousness of Christ and not our righteousness according to any law we do.

You mentioned death in Rom 6 without the verse reference, so that was the best I could find. Please give references next time you try to build a Scriptural case.

Lukewarmness comes from leaving our First Love, usually after losing site of His great love for us because as the Galatians we revert back to self effort.

Galatians 4:11-17, 19-20 (KJV)
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.


Yet Apostle Paul shows in the opening of Galatians that they walked in the true gospel of Christ before being lead astray to another gospel.

By doing so Paul did not tell them they are still saved and remain under God's grace, not he said the opposite that Christ have become of no effect to them and they have fallen from Grace.

Without both Christ's redemptive blood covering them and not being under God's grace can easily be discerned that the road they are on does not lead to eternal life unless they change. Both of those are stated as needed to receive eternal life !!!
 
Also the tree being called the "Tree of Good and Evil," does not mean good and evil are on the same tree.

Lord Jesus clearly disputes this thinking as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit.......Matthew 7:18

The good and evil is the ability to discern between good and evil, not that they reside on the same tree !!!

Who used the plural as I didn't in my post as I said the, " Tree of Good and Evil ?" Singular usage not plural....
Oh, I guess I guess you were saying "good and evil are on different 'tree' "?
 
Yet Apostle Paul shows in the opening of Galatians that they walked in the true gospel of Christ before being lead astray to another gospel.

By doing so Paul did not tell them they are still saved and remain under God's grace, not he said the opposite that Christ have become of no effect to them and they have fallen from Grace.

Without both Christ's redemptive blood covering them and not being under God's grace can easily be discerned that the road they are on does not lead to eternal life unless they change. Both of those are stated as needed to receive eternal life !!!
Quite a word twister, I must say...
That false gospel consisted in turning back to the law instead of abiding in the Gospel.
Falling from grace is never described as losing one's salvation but rather their walk is no longer by grace but rather by law.
Those who have received Christ are no longer under condemnation but have passed from death to life...

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The ones who are in danger of eternal hell are those who preached another Gospel than the ones the Apostles were given...

Galatians 1:7-9 (KJV)
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
 
When we are born again we no longer have a sin nature, that is the old self we put off to be new creations in Christ !!!

We now walk by the Spirit not by the flesh, walking by the flesh is the old sin nature that is warned about continuing in in the bible.

This placing good and evil as the same you better be very careful with that, and I see now why some take and call people speaking on doing His righteousness as being self-righteous with this faulty mindset thinking.

Remember taking and attributing His works (righteousness) to that of being evil is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and that is very dangerous as that is unforgivable !!!

The Pharisees accused Jesus of being evil (of the devil) for the works He did to !!!

You should be perfect then, And unable to fall back into sin and lose salvation.

Oh wait, You do not believe any of those things. So what you just stated could not possibly be true.
 
Oh, I guess I guess you were saying "good and evil are on different 'tree' "?

I explained it very clear that the "Tree of Good and Evil" does not mean both good and evil are on that tree, as go read it carefully again as it is about knowing/discernment of good and evil.

Adam and Eve did not know it was wrong to be naked before they ate of the tree because the discernment was not there, after eating the knowledge of what is right and wrong was given to them.
 
Quite a word twister, I must say...
That false gospel consisted in turning back to the law instead of abiding in the Gospel.
Falling from grace is never described as losing one's salvation but rather their walk is no longer by grace but rather by law.
Those who have received Christ are no longer under condemnation but have passed from death to life...

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The ones who are in danger of eternal hell are those who preached another Gospel than the ones the Apostles were given...

Galatians 1:7-9 (KJV)
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;


You are trying to read into what is not there, as it clearly says we are saved by grace through faith, and it is only by Christ's redemptive blood that our sins are forgiven.

Paul tells the Galatians they no longer have either by going back to the law, and we need to take Colossians 1:22-23 into account here as Paul shows will receive that remission only if we continue in the faith. Nowhere does it say you will continue to receive His remission even if you walk away from Him !!!
 
You are trying to read into what is not there, as it clearly says we are saved by grace through faith, and it is only by Christ's redemptive blood that our sins are forgiven.

Case closed then, You must believe in eternal security. Because it is all on Christ as you just said.

But wait, You do not believe this, so again, you contradict yourself.