Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet
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The problem with Joyce and the other prosperity preachers is they are preaching to those who believe they are entitled to wealth. The wealth we have today is due to technology and science not christianity.
Now any good organisation promotes those who do their job well and are productive to how the company operates. But this is a long way from command theology, or seeing your dreams, visualising them and then claiming them. That is just greed.
There is nothing wrong with aspiring to use your skills to their best advantage, but when you arrive, and have wealth, it is then you decide what you do with it. So many live their lives dreaming of the impossible while throwing away the blessing they have today, in family, friends, church, gifting in the hope that dream will come true. The hard truth is most of us will never achieve the dreams we have, or are able to chase that rainbow, which is often built by our culture, advertising, our family and not reality. Some poor souls get their dreams, and they suddenly realise they lost their souls on the road and literally do not know what to do. The number 1 problem of the rich is to find acceptance, because they have lost their roots and do not fit in with the culture of money, so get exceptionally lonely.
Now the peddlers of these dreams are no different than the advertisers on TV. The wealth they can accumulate by saying give me £10 pounds and you will get back £100, £1000 is just the same as the lottery but even more deceptive because there is no connection between the money you give to the preacher and the money you receive. Now if we condemn gambling as corrupt, how much more is this behaviour corrupt and based on greed, using God as the lottery machine in the sky.
And what is the reality? The majority will prosper no matter what they give to the church, because wealth accumulation really does work in a society where people are naturally progressing up the promotion and responsibility chain.
But to call this christian is to call a turd golden.
I do not care how much wealth or otherwise people have, just what they are connecting between spirituality and blessing, and what they are encouraging in their followers, greed or good works. Before the Lord it is plain to see, greed is there number one ethic, and the more wealthy they are, the more blessed they must be.
Now any good organisation promotes those who do their job well and are productive to how the company operates. But this is a long way from command theology, or seeing your dreams, visualising them and then claiming them. That is just greed.
There is nothing wrong with aspiring to use your skills to their best advantage, but when you arrive, and have wealth, it is then you decide what you do with it. So many live their lives dreaming of the impossible while throwing away the blessing they have today, in family, friends, church, gifting in the hope that dream will come true. The hard truth is most of us will never achieve the dreams we have, or are able to chase that rainbow, which is often built by our culture, advertising, our family and not reality. Some poor souls get their dreams, and they suddenly realise they lost their souls on the road and literally do not know what to do. The number 1 problem of the rich is to find acceptance, because they have lost their roots and do not fit in with the culture of money, so get exceptionally lonely.
Now the peddlers of these dreams are no different than the advertisers on TV. The wealth they can accumulate by saying give me £10 pounds and you will get back £100, £1000 is just the same as the lottery but even more deceptive because there is no connection between the money you give to the preacher and the money you receive. Now if we condemn gambling as corrupt, how much more is this behaviour corrupt and based on greed, using God as the lottery machine in the sky.
And what is the reality? The majority will prosper no matter what they give to the church, because wealth accumulation really does work in a society where people are naturally progressing up the promotion and responsibility chain.
But to call this christian is to call a turd golden.
I do not care how much wealth or otherwise people have, just what they are connecting between spirituality and blessing, and what they are encouraging in their followers, greed or good works. Before the Lord it is plain to see, greed is there number one ethic, and the more wealthy they are, the more blessed they must be.
Nobody's arguing that. The whole point of the op was that lies were being spread about Joyce Meyer. If you watched the video Lance posted, you'd see that Joyce DID NOT PURCHASE a $23,000 toilet. It was a lie.
The whole point of this thread was: DON'T SPREAD GOSSIP
The whole point of this thread was: DON'T SPREAD GOSSIP
L
Well, your conclusions are not coming from someone who has seen this work. You have seen something not work and the connection between God's blessings and mans accumulated wealth are 2 very different things. God's blessings flow from Him and have nothing to do with greed. If a person hogs the blessings the water becomes stagnant and God can't flow through them.
Man in his desire for wealth and security when it is strived for without God, that security and wealth is hard to come by. He has to do as the world does. He has to compete and sweat like the world does. The world has to lie and cheat and steal. Using the world's methods to survive. That man is a self made man not a God made man. And that man's wealth is subject to the terms it was acquired by. So when the market drops, so does he. Not so with the man who knows all he has is from God. His hope is in the Lord, not the things of this world.
Man in his desire for wealth and security when it is strived for without God, that security and wealth is hard to come by. He has to do as the world does. He has to compete and sweat like the world does. The world has to lie and cheat and steal. Using the world's methods to survive. That man is a self made man not a God made man. And that man's wealth is subject to the terms it was acquired by. So when the market drops, so does he. Not so with the man who knows all he has is from God. His hope is in the Lord, not the things of this world.
S
Why would I have a "problem" concerning how another person chooses to live? Seems contrary to Jesus teaching concerning the things we are supposed to care about. For some reason I can't find "get bent out of shape about something you have no control over in the words of Jesus........ love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself.
You obviously are in a position of wealth, and feel this is a gift of grace and are happy to give and share.
That is a good thing, to give and share.
It does not answer the basic problem of preaching the lottery. But you are blind to this heresy, and see zero problem going to the poor and saying sow £100 with me and God will give you a £1,000 back.
It is often this blatent. No to you it is all spiritual and ok.
Have I seen this work? It is not a thing to see work. God is not into flooding people with wealth. Read the temptations of Jesus.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
Matt 4:8-9
God does not give His followers the world and its splendor but you are happy to follow preachers who claim he does. Has it not occurred to you maybe they are not talking about blessing from Jesus, but greed and being sold out for personal gain. The whole book of Job is about questioning why you worship and praise God, and the logic or accusation is because you are wealthy. I have heared too many "christians" who are talking this way.
That is a good thing, to give and share.
It does not answer the basic problem of preaching the lottery. But you are blind to this heresy, and see zero problem going to the poor and saying sow £100 with me and God will give you a £1,000 back.
It is often this blatent. No to you it is all spiritual and ok.
Have I seen this work? It is not a thing to see work. God is not into flooding people with wealth. Read the temptations of Jesus.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
Matt 4:8-9
God does not give His followers the world and its splendor but you are happy to follow preachers who claim he does. Has it not occurred to you maybe they are not talking about blessing from Jesus, but greed and being sold out for personal gain. The whole book of Job is about questioning why you worship and praise God, and the logic or accusation is because you are wealthy. I have heared too many "christians" who are talking this way.
S
God gives greater things than riches...obviously riches that moth and rust cannot destroy....but that doesn't mean He doesn't use people who use earthly riches to spread the gospel. Inanimate objects like money cannot be inherently evil....only mens hearts are evil....and it appears that you are in the business of judging mens hearts based on an outward appearance of "riches".
BTW...I'm not a name it and claim it kinda guy....nor do I seek to be rich. Jesus said....follow me and all these things will be added to you. Earthly blessings come in many shapes and sizes and God chooses who he will allow to prosper financially...whether it be for good reasons or bad. It ALL is working to the Glory of God.
BTW...I'm not a name it and claim it kinda guy....nor do I seek to be rich. Jesus said....follow me and all these things will be added to you. Earthly blessings come in many shapes and sizes and God chooses who he will allow to prosper financially...whether it be for good reasons or bad. It ALL is working to the Glory of God.
S
You aren't talking Bible. You are only repeating your personal doctrine. I agree that we don't seek riches nor do we make wealth our God but God does prosper and you do give to receive. It's in the word of God! Read these scriptures and tell me they aren't true.
Deuteronomy 28:1-13King James Version (KJV)
28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
Luke 6:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Psalm 112:3King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
Read those scriptures and then tell me God doesn't want to bless you with money. I'll choose to believe God instead of you.
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This is what is wrong with your ideas. God blesses us with everything, he meets our needs.
What I have seen in people involved in the prosperity gospel is excessive wealth, massive aspirations above that which most people would ever get.
We are commanded to be content, to be happy with what we have. Jesus is talking focus not power or importance or respect. The pharisees did everything for show, which is what you are talking about.
The tension is simple. If you spend your time seeking wealth you have no time left for anything else.
So the focus is God or money.
You have to realise the whole community cannot be "rich", but average. The real test of your spiritual position is average somewhere you would be content?
Is your gospel message, following the Lord means you will be blessed better than average, and that is where you should be?
That is simple greed and superiority, and sin.
The Lord may bless you, but we have no rights to expect this or to even want it.
A survey of people was done and each group was asked how much wealth would they want to be happy. Time and again each group said twice what they currently had, no matter where they were. This shows an underlying desire in people to gain something which they believe will make their lives better, when they possess it already.
The prosperity gospel is not only saying this aspiration is ok, it is God given and God will meet it, which is all a lie.
God has blessed you with enough today, it is for you to repent and find fulfillment where you are, and put into His hands your future.
What I have seen in people involved in the prosperity gospel is excessive wealth, massive aspirations above that which most people would ever get.
We are commanded to be content, to be happy with what we have. Jesus is talking focus not power or importance or respect. The pharisees did everything for show, which is what you are talking about.
The tension is simple. If you spend your time seeking wealth you have no time left for anything else.
So the focus is God or money.
You have to realise the whole community cannot be "rich", but average. The real test of your spiritual position is average somewhere you would be content?
Is your gospel message, following the Lord means you will be blessed better than average, and that is where you should be?
That is simple greed and superiority, and sin.
The Lord may bless you, but we have no rights to expect this or to even want it.
A survey of people was done and each group was asked how much wealth would they want to be happy. Time and again each group said twice what they currently had, no matter where they were. This shows an underlying desire in people to gain something which they believe will make their lives better, when they possess it already.
The prosperity gospel is not only saying this aspiration is ok, it is God given and God will meet it, which is all a lie.
God has blessed you with enough today, it is for you to repent and find fulfillment where you are, and put into His hands your future.
To those who feel they can cut themselves off from individuals they do not like....
Jesus commands us to love each other. It may appear harsh, but when you dump a brother or sister, you are failing in your walk. You may disagree, may feel frustrated at their approach, but we all have to get to that position were we can love them despite who they are or what they believe.
Very often the issue actually is, we have a problem in our lives which the person represents, and we refuse to face up to it. If this seriously annoys you, or causes you an issue, there is work in your life you need to do.
This is a real test whether you know what love really is, and how spiritual you really are?
It is always easy to say God give me spiritual gifts, but to actually do what we are built to do, I mean that is just toooo much trouble!!!!
One young "christian" was claiming he wanted success and wealth, and how dare God not give him the opportunities, yet he was 100% blind to how selfish and privileged this actually is, and how derogatory to those in poor societies where opportunities are often shut in their faces by other people, no matter how hard they try.
Jesus commands us to love each other. It may appear harsh, but when you dump a brother or sister, you are failing in your walk. You may disagree, may feel frustrated at their approach, but we all have to get to that position were we can love them despite who they are or what they believe.
Very often the issue actually is, we have a problem in our lives which the person represents, and we refuse to face up to it. If this seriously annoys you, or causes you an issue, there is work in your life you need to do.
This is a real test whether you know what love really is, and how spiritual you really are?
It is always easy to say God give me spiritual gifts, but to actually do what we are built to do, I mean that is just toooo much trouble!!!!
One young "christian" was claiming he wanted success and wealth, and how dare God not give him the opportunities, yet he was 100% blind to how selfish and privileged this actually is, and how derogatory to those in poor societies where opportunities are often shut in their faces by other people, no matter how hard they try.
L
Oh well Peter, again., I cannot agree with your assessments of the hows and why's of God's daily wonderful blessings to us. Each day I look forward to yet another day with the Lord and wonder what He will do in it. I look forward to His watch care and His leading. That He is real and constant and my help in any time of need. His love is so warm and secure I have nothing to fear from Him and expect only good from Him. He is our loving Father.
This mornings devotional is something I thought to share with you Peter. It's a good one.
[TABLE="width: 400, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%"]Deuteronomy 28:6
Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]In the Jewish community, the promise, “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out”, refers to being blessed in the affairs of one’s daily life, whether in or outside one’s home.
So here, God is saying that you are blessed in your everyday life. Do you believe it? Do you believe that every day, your family and work life are blessed? Or do you think that you are blessed only during Christmas when you receive your gifts and year-end bonus, or when you get that promotion you have been wanting? Perhaps you think that the blessed life only begins when you meet the man or woman of your dreams!
No, my friend, you are blessed every day and you have God’s Word for it. Psalm 68:19 says, “Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits, the God of our salvation!” And because God’s Word says so, believe that every day of your life is loaded with benefits. Every morning, when you get up, believe that it is a day that the Lord has made, and rejoice and be glad in it. (Psalm 118:24) Start the day expecting it to be loaded with the benefits that God has prepared just for you.
At night, when it is time to sleep, know that you will be blessed when you get up in the morning because there will be another load of benefits from your heavenly Father, who so loves you unconditionally, waiting for you!
You can’t make your blessings happen. But if you will just believe what God has said in His Word and act like it is so, the blessings will manifest in your life. In fact, God wants to bless you more than you want to be blessed! His Word declares it: “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out…Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits, the God of our salvation!”
Beloved, believe God’s Word. Believe Him for the blessings and you will find yourself loaded with His daily benefits!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
This mornings devotional is something I thought to share with you Peter. It's a good one.
[TABLE="width: 400, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%"]Deuteronomy 28:6
Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]In the Jewish community, the promise, “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out”, refers to being blessed in the affairs of one’s daily life, whether in or outside one’s home.
So here, God is saying that you are blessed in your everyday life. Do you believe it? Do you believe that every day, your family and work life are blessed? Or do you think that you are blessed only during Christmas when you receive your gifts and year-end bonus, or when you get that promotion you have been wanting? Perhaps you think that the blessed life only begins when you meet the man or woman of your dreams!
No, my friend, you are blessed every day and you have God’s Word for it. Psalm 68:19 says, “Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits, the God of our salvation!” And because God’s Word says so, believe that every day of your life is loaded with benefits. Every morning, when you get up, believe that it is a day that the Lord has made, and rejoice and be glad in it. (Psalm 118:24) Start the day expecting it to be loaded with the benefits that God has prepared just for you.
At night, when it is time to sleep, know that you will be blessed when you get up in the morning because there will be another load of benefits from your heavenly Father, who so loves you unconditionally, waiting for you!
You can’t make your blessings happen. But if you will just believe what God has said in His Word and act like it is so, the blessings will manifest in your life. In fact, God wants to bless you more than you want to be blessed! His Word declares it: “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out…Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits, the God of our salvation!”
Beloved, believe God’s Word. Believe Him for the blessings and you will find yourself loaded with His daily benefits!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
S
Peter, I've seen people following after money and I agree that's not God's will. That's not what I am talking about though. You can't throw out the baby with the bath water. There is still true prosperity in the Word of God. You can't just reject it because some have misunderstood it. God does want us wealthy, and not just enough to get by because people barely getting by won't do much for anyone else.
The word says God will make me the head and not the tail. He says I will lend to many nations and never borrow. This is prosperity. Money is not evil, only the love of it. The Body of Christ must shrug off the poverty mentality. It's not so we can build bigger barns and put more stuff in those barns. It's so we can be a blessing to the whole world.
The word says God will make me the head and not the tail. He says I will lend to many nations and never borrow. This is prosperity. Money is not evil, only the love of it. The Body of Christ must shrug off the poverty mentality. It's not so we can build bigger barns and put more stuff in those barns. It's so we can be a blessing to the whole world.
I want a toilet with blue ladybugs on it..
I quite certain that there is an artist somewhere who would oblige your desire for that special toilet. If you have the cash you can probably have them made from sapphires.
For the cause of Christ
Roger