Christians are not required to keep the law.

[Magenta]

That is because legalists teach that we are saved by works rather than faith
Though I don't see where they got that idea

That would depend on which legalists you were referring to, as the people generally referred to as legalists here do not teach that works save, but are an evidence of being saved. Legalists such as Catholics may say that works save, such as infant baptism etc, and that is different.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People in the old testament, some did actually live out the law, like we see Noah for example or Enoch, they lived accordingly, that is why they were saved.

Jesus himself admitted only God was good. And scripture makes it clear Only Jesus was able to live out the law. So where do you get that these people wer perfect?

 

[james57]

The law is written in the heart in the sense that we now have His nature through the new birth, which is a reflection of His (moral) law.

In 2cor3:3 Paul refers specifically to the law of tablets of stone being on tablets of human hearts.

The major prophecy of Jeremiah 31 repeated in heb chs 8&10 refers to Gods laws being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. I don't see any reason not to accept it as written.

 

[james57]

In other words it's not a check list written on our hearts.

Of course it isn't a check list. As soon as I became a christian I instinctively knew in my mind how God wanted me to live and in my heart I wanted to obey God. I was also immediately conscious of my sin for the first time in my life, only through the law can we become conscious of sin ron3:20

 

[james57]

I think it is love, (gods love not our interpretation of love, which is not love at all)

Since we have Gods ultimate love in us (experienced by the cross) we know anything that falls hsort of this love is a sin.. so in a sense, we have Gods law written.. we can not be like him, where before, all we could do is serve self. even when attempting to serve others.

But that isn't how it is written in the bible.
The penalty of sin is removed from the christian, but not the moral law
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness(rom10:4), not full stop

 

[oldthennew]

That would depend on which legalists you were referring to, as the people generally referred to as legalists here do not teach that works save, but are an evidence of being saved. Legalists such as Catholics may say that works save, such as infant baptism etc, and that is different.

==================================================

great point, Magenta,

so far, since we have come to this site, we have yet to read where 'anyone' has stated that they believe
that 'works' will save them...whether of the Law, or ritual, or good-works,...

yet, the prevailing THEME here is constantly alluding to people believe that 'works' equals 'salvation'....

so, what can we deduce from all of this false assumption???

in our eyes it can only be that people are 'seeing what just isn't there'.....

our Father makes it quite clear what our duties are and that we are saved by 'GRACE', but
rewarded according to 'works'....

REV.14:13. - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead
which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
and their works do follow them.

 

[valiant]

In 2cor3:3 Paul refers specifically to the law of tablets of stone being on tablets of human hearts.

The major prophecy of Jeremiah 31 repeated in heb chs 8&10 refers to Gods laws being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. I don't see any reason not to accept it as written.

I think you have misread 2 cor 3.3 It says nothing about the law written on the heart. It is the letter of Christ which is written on our hearts.

The law in the mind and heart in Jeremiah is a fulfilment not a crude lawgiving. It means we will 'naturally' desire to fulfil all God's requirements. Our righteousness has to be greater than that of lawkeepers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But that isn't how it is written in the bible.
The penalty of sin is removed from the christian, but not the moral law
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness(rom10:4), not full stop

You can not live the moral law. The moral law would condemn you where you stand. If not for thee grace of God you could not go one second apart from condemnation.

Think about what your sayin gbro. I usually agree with you, but I think your a little left here. unless I misunderstand you.

 

[Magenta]

==================================================

great point, Magenta,

so far, since we have come to this site, we have yet to read where 'anyone' has stated that they believe
that 'works' will save them...whether of the Law, or ritual, or good-works,...

yet, the prevailing THEME here is constantly alluding to people believe that 'works' equals 'salvation'....

so, what can we deduce from all of this false assumption???

in our eyes it can only be that people are 'seeing what just isn't there'.....

our Father makes it quite clear what our duties are and that we are saved by 'GRACE', but
rewarded according to 'works'....

REV.14:13. - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead
which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
and their works do follow them.

Thank you and Amen. Ascribing to certain Protestants here the belief/saying that they promote the idea that works saves is simply wrong. It does seem to be a very nuanced point, but one made often. The point being, if we are saved, we wish to do the will of the Father. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commands."

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

"Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."

"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love."

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

 

[james57]

You can not live the moral law. The moral law would condemn you where you stand. If not for thee grace of God you could not go one second apart from condemnation.

Think about what your sayin gbro. I usually agree with you, but I think your a little left here. unless I misunderstand you.

Though the moral law is on your heart that does not mean you perfectly obey it. You only have one righteousness for the whole of your christian life(rom1:17) faith in Christ.
But the christian has to want in their heart not to steal, murder, lie, covet, honour their parents etc. They simply want to live as God desires them to live. That is the point of the law being placed within them. Something supernatural had to happen to cut out a licence to sin by the christian having a righteousness apart from the law. God changed it from being an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts
The christian in their heart wants to obey God, but their righteousness is solely faith in christ

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Though the moral law is on your heart that does not mean you perfectly obey it. You only have one righteousness for the whole of your christian life(rom1:17) faith in Christ.
But the christian has to want in their heart not to steal, murder, lie, covet, honour their parents etc. They simply want to live as God desires them to live. That is the point of the law being placed within them. Something supernatural had to happen to cut out a licence to sin by the christian having a righteousness apart from the law. God changed it from being an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts
The christian in their heart wants to obey God, but their righteousness is solely faith in christ

A christian obeys God by learning to love as God loved.

That was the meaning behind the words. You fulfill all the law and prophets by the two great commands.

God did not write on my heart, "you shalt not murder". He did not have to. He wrote the law of love on my heart, so I do not have to worry about murdering anyone. I would never think of commiting murder on someone I love, and his command says we are to love even our enemy.

The law was written because we did sin, to make us guilty before God.

It was not written (on our heart or on stone) to tell us how to be good moral people. It was never intended for that purpose. nor can it fulfill that purpose.

 

[james57]

A christian obeys God by learning to love as God loved.

That was the meaning behind the words. You fulfill all the law and prophets by the two great commands.

God did not write on my heart, "you shalt not murder". He did not have to. He wrote the law of love on my heart, so I do not have to worry about murdering anyone. I would never think of commiting murder on someone I love, and his command says we are to love even our enemy.

The law was written because we did sin, to make us guilty before God.

It was not written (on our heart or on stone) to tell us how to be good moral people. It was never intended for that purpose. nor can it fulfill that purpose.

The law is fulfilled by love. However the prophecy is
God will write his laws on our minds and place them on our hearts
When I became a christian, I knew it was wrong to have impure thoughts. I didn't think. By having an impure thought I was not loving(though love fulfills the law) The wording of the new covenant in scripture is as I accept it.
I appreciate the scars of the past due to being brought up in strict legalism. By the tine I was 15 I was crushed broken and guilt ridden, and i think in view of an experience like that the word law can set off negative images of the past. But now I know I have a righteousness apart from the law I am fine with accepting the moral law is within me. It simply means in my heart I desire to live as God wants me to live. I'm cool with that

 

[KohenMatt]

The bible is very clear that the Commandments of God were given to the Hebrews, and not christians. I believe if you look in Exodus, or Leviticus. I don't really get the point of heated discussions involving the law, if Christians aren't even meant to keep the law to gain salvation in the first place?

Hi Vital,
Christians don't need to keep the Law, but they should physically and/or spiritually. And I agree that it has nothing to do with salvation. I know where my salvation lies, and it isn't in obedience to anything, including the Law.

But how I live in response to that salvation is where the Law comes into play.

 

[KohenMatt]

==================================================

great point, Magenta,

so far, since we have come to this site, we have yet to read where 'anyone' has stated that they believe
that 'works' will save them...whether of the Law, or ritual, or good-works,...

yet, the prevailing THEME here is constantly alluding to people believe that 'works' equals 'salvation'....

so, what can we deduce from all of this false assumption???

in our eyes it can only be that people are 'seeing what just isn't there'.....

our Father makes it quite clear what our duties are and that we are saved by 'GRACE', but
rewarded according to 'works'....

REV.14:13. - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead
which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
and their works do follow them.

Bingo. Well said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law is fulfilled by love. However the prophecy is
God will write his laws on our minds and place them on our hearts
When I became a christian, I knew it was wrong to have impure thoughts. I didn't think.

Unless you became spiritually mature, I am sorry, I do not buy this, You Already knew you were guilty of sin or you would never have come to Christ in the first place.

While I agree you had a self consciousness of certain sins you never had before. It does not mean you did not know they were sins before.

A chrisitan will spend the rest of their lives being sanctificed by God. Always learning. They did not learn it all in one moment.

By having an impure thought I was not loving(though love fulfills the law) The wording of the new covenant in scripture is as I accept it.
I appreciate the scars of the past due to being brought up in strict legalism. By the tine I was 15 I was crushed broken and guilt ridden, and i think in view of an experience like that the word law can set off negative images of the past. But now I know I have a righteousness apart from the law I am fine with accepting the moral law is within me. It simply means in my heart I desire to live as God wants me to live. I'm cool with that

While I agree here, I see it different. I see living life as serving others. Who does god want me to serve today, That was Jesus frame of mind every day. it should be ours.

This obedience thing is just awful. it puts people under law. When God never wanted it this way.

You do not have to tell a child of God he is a sinner, He knows. You do not have to tell them they have to learn to grow in Christ, they know. You do not tell them they have to obey God. they KNOW.

What they need to do is learn and grow. not be stopped every time they turn around by law.

 

[james57]

Unless you became spiritually mature, I am sorry, I do not buy this, You Already knew you were guilty of sin or you would never have come to Christ in the first place.

While I agree you had a self consciousness of certain sins you never had before. It does not mean you did not know they were sins before.

A chrisitan will spend the rest of their lives being sanctificed by God. Always learning. They did not learn it all in one moment.



While I agree here, I see it different. I see living life as serving others. Who does god want me to serve today, That was Jesus frame of mind every day. it should be ours.

This obedience thing is just awful. it puts people under law. When God never wanted it this way.

You do not have to tell a child of God he is a sinner, He knows. You do not have to tell them they have to learn to grow in Christ, they know. You do not tell them they have to obey God. they KNOW.

What they need to do is learn and grow. not be stopped every time they turn around by law.

I can assure you I did not in my most inward parts have conviction of what sin was in my life before I responded to an altar call at the age of ten, I did afterwards
I agree, you don't have to tell a christian they are a sinner, you don't have to tell them to grow in Christ the know
Where I disagree I the law not being placed within us, for that I the wording used in scripture concerning the new covenant.
I really don't see how it can be objected to that a christian in their heart simply wants to obey God for Tha is where the law has been placed.

If a christian committed adultery what would the conviction be? They have sinned by committing adultery or not loving?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can assure you I did not in my most inward parts have conviction of what sin was in my life before I responded to an altar call at the age of ten, I did afterwards
I agree, you don't have to tell a christian they are a sinner, you don't have to tell them to grow in Christ the know
Where I disagree I the law not being placed within us, for that I the wording used in scripture concerning the new covenant.
I really don't see how it can be objected to that a christian in their heart simply wants to obey God for Tha is where the law has been placed.

If a christian committed adultery what would the conviction be? They have sinned by committing adultery or not loving?

this is speaking to all unsaved people. it spoke of you and I before we came to Christ.

Rom 1: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

So I can not agree with you. Even Gentiles who were not given the law. Know that certain things are sinful.

as for christian commiting adutlry. God knows their heart, and what they are thinking, and he will chasten them as he feels fit. It is not for me to decide what a person will think, I am not god. now would I want to try to be God and assume anything.

I do know this.

If that Christian loved his wife as God loved the church, If he loved that womans he cheated with as God loved the church, The adultry would never have occured. The adultry occured because the flesh was weak. and he did not love as God loved him, and he TOOK what was not his for his own satisfaction.

 

[james57]

The following is the biblical wording of the new covenant, it seems clear to me:

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And i will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws Ezekiel 36:26&27

This is the covenant i will make with them after that time says the lord
I will write my laws on their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb 10:16&17

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If a christian committed adultery what would the conviction be? They have sinned by committing adultery or not loving?

Christians are not judged by the law of Moses.

Thus speak and thus act as those who are going to be judged by the law of liberty. James 2:12​

 

[Blain]

Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments, The law was not given to just the jews it was given to anyone who wants to follow God. The Law was never done away with God's words are eternal, however in Christ instead of being in chains from the law we find joy in the law.

If anyone thinks that they no longer need to obey the ten commandments then by all means be a true believer by killing stealing and having other Gods before him