Christmas Reconsidered, Ralph Woodrow

sparkman · Nov 20, 2015

Scripture teaches that the Old Covenant is done away with. See Hebrews 8 and 9, Galatians 3 and 4, Romans 7:1-7 and Acts 15.

The Sabbath was part of the Old Covenant. So are annual festivals and clean/unclean meat laws. In addition, the Old Covenant was made between God and Israel, not God and Christians.

This is why Colossians 2:16-17 says that they are no longer applicable, just like New Moons. Clean/unclean meats are no longer applicable per Mark 7 and Romans 14 as well.

If you want to claim otherwise, then you place yourself in the camp of the Galatian heretics.

Read "Sabbath In Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff for more detail in this regard.

In addition, why is Sabbath-breaking and eating unclean meats never labeled as a sin in the sin lists of the Gentiles? If it was such an important issue, why was it never mentioned? In addition, why does John call the festival days the "Feasts of the Jews"? And, if the Sabbath was so important, why did Christ choose to appear to the disciples on Sunday rather than Saturday?

We've been through this all before. If you want to continue wearing diapers and sucking on a pacifier, go ahead...that's the mentality which "Torah Observers" and "Lawkeepers" have. Despite their claims to be "enlightened", and part of the elect, and to possess "the Truth", they are in reality following kindergarten-level specific applications given to a carnal nation that would have helped them to recognize their need for a Savior. Gentiles were able to skip this stage and go directly to the New Covenant.

Keep sucking your pacifier and wearing your diapers though...I hope you know Jesus Christ while you're continuing to believe Herbie's religion

If anyone wants more details on my views in this regard as an ex Sabbathkeeper see my profile.

sparkman · Nov 20, 2015

Just so you guys know, prove-all believes he is going to be part of the Godhead in the resurrection. He follows the teachings of Herbert Armstrong in this regard. Herbert Armstrong was the leader of the cult that I belonged to as a young man.

Basically they believe they will literally become God beings, same as Jesus Christ and God the Father. The Christian life for them is about proving themselves obedient so that God can trust them with full Godhood.

It is heretical and blasphemous to claim that you are going to become part of the Godhead.

By the way, prove-all, you need to quit posting from the heretical Armstrongite websites. I have reported you in the past for that and I will continue to do so. It is against the rules to be posting this stuff.

prove-all said:

In the first chapter, the Moffatt translation of the Bible renders the
Greek word translated “all things” as “the universe.”

In other words, for those willing to believe what God says, He says that
He has decreed the entire universe—with all its galaxies, its countless suns
and planets—everything—will be put under man’s subjection.

the next words in the same eighth verse: “But now we see
not yet all things [the endless universe] put under him [man].”
Remember (verse 5), this is speaking of the “world to come”—not today’s world.

But what do we see now, today?
“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [or, “for a little
while lower”] for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour.”

Man, other than Christ, is not yet “crowned with glory and honour.”

But see how Christ is already crowned with glory and honor. Continue:

“For it became him, for whom are all things [the entire universe] and by whom
are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation
perfect through sufferings … for which cause he [Christ] is not ashamed
to call them brethren” (verses 10-11).

In other words, Christians having God’s Spirit are joint-heirs with Christ
to inherit all that Christ already has inherited. He is now in glory! He has
already inherited the entire universe.

He sustains it by His power. Man, if he is converted, having God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:9), is now only an heir—not yet a possessor.

crowned with glory and honor—and is already in possession—has already inherited.
Begin with Hebrews, chapter 1:

“God … hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things [the entire universe], by whom also he made the
worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his
person, and upholding [sustaining] all things [the entire universe] by the word
of his power …” (Hebrews 1:1-3).

The living Christ already sustains the entire universe by His limitless
divine power. The passage continues to show His superiority over the angels:

He is the begotten and born Son of God—
angels are merely individually created beings. Angels are now
administering spirits (invisible to us), ministering to us—

to us who are now in lower status than angels, but who are heirs of salvation,
when we, like Christ, shall become born sons of God (Hebrews 1:4-14).

that he might be the firstborn among many brethren” (Romans 8:29).
Humans having God’s Holy Spirit are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ—
who, alone of all humans, has already been born as God’s Son by a resurrection
from the dead (Romans 1:4). He is the first of the human family to be born
into the Family of God—the Kingdom of God.

We shall follow at the resurrection of the just at Christ’s return to
Earth in supreme power and glory.

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the
sons of God …. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God,
and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we [in this life] suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us …” (Romans 8:14-18).

“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the
sons of God; for the creation [all the suns, planets, stars, moons]
was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who
subjected it in hope;because the creation itself will be set free from its
bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation [stars, suns and moons now in decay and futility]
has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation but we ourselves
[we Spirit-begotten humans], who have the first fruits of the Spirit [the “firstfruits”]
groan inwardly as we wait for the [birth] as sons”.

At His return to Earth in power and glory
those who have been converted and received God’s Holy Spirit
shall be born into the God Family by a resurrection.
Then the entire universe will be put into subjection under them!

Why should the whole universe—the creation—be waiting with eager longing
for the actual birth and appearing of all these sons of God,
to be born into the Family of God?

“Because the creation itself [the universe not now capable of
sustaining life] will be set free from its bondage to decay
and obtain the glorious liberty

“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it,
he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the Lord; and there is none else.”

God says that the universe—not just the Earth—was designed to be inhabited.
It wasn’t created in vain, to be simply an ornament. It was created for a purpose.

In Isaiah 51:16, God says, “And I have put my words in thy mouth,
and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,

that I may (plant the heavens), and lay the foundations of the earth,
and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.”

God intends to “plant the heavens.”Think about what that is saying.
When you plant something, that means you are laying down seeds
that you expect to grow into a crop.

This Hebrew word, nata, is the same word used in Genesis 2:8
to say that God planted a garden in Eden.
Noah planted a vineyard in Genesis 9:20.
Abraham planted a tree in Genesis 21:33.

Isaiah 51:16 tells us that God is going to plant the heavens—
the abode of the stars—the universe! He is going to seed it with life,
expecting that it will grow into a greater, more impressive harvest in time!
governed by God from Jersulam

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality”

We will actually have the same glorious spirit body that God has (Philippians 3:21).

Why did God create us after His likeness—to look like Himself? (Genesis 1:26).
Because He is actually fashioning us into Spirit-born sons of God!
Those who are transformed into spirit essence will look like Christ.
“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Romans 6:5).

“And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear
the image of the heavenly” (1 Corinthians 15:49).

A description of Jesus Christ in His glorified form is given in Revelation 1:14-16.

To be joint-heirs along with Jesus Christ and to actually look as He does,
with our faces shining as bright as the sun, is difficult to comprehend.
But this is exactly what God has promised to give His sons who
overcome! (Revelation 21:7). And God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM;
for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2).

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

ThomistColin said:

I am saying he is only a man, I did not write this,I do not know him.

but this was written about Him, from [many] others that had known him and his works.

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

so you recomend Ralph Woodrow, who by doing a 180 in thinking,

could be labeled a false prophet also, should you post colt stuff?

i telling lol

you slandered several other churches as colts,

but no one is allowed to stickup for them and show there view?

and you demand corprate worship

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

The root of the word Nicolaitans comes from Greek nikao, to conquer or overcome,
and laos, which means people and which the word laity comes from.

The two words together especially means the destruction of the people and refers
to the earliest form of what we call a priestly order or clergy which later on in
church history divided people and allowed for leadership other than those led
by the spirit of the risen Lord.

A good translation of Nicolaitan would be "those who prevail over the people."

This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy
of priests and clergy lording over the flock.

The Council of Trent stated, "If anyone shall say that there
is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination,
consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema."

It is not the question of the ministries but rather in the separation of them into
a hierarchy over the people. This very idea was taken over by the Protestants
with their own corruption of leadership roles and coverings.

The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans.
The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God's sight
and He hates the lust for religious power over others.

There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than
the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion
of the rightful authority of God.

The standard mega pulpit preacher today, any clerical leader or papal type ruling body
and many televangelists are treated as royalty and often are swimming in materialistic pleasures.

You will know them by their fruit.

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

sparkman said:

the bible says we will be sons of God , and we will be like him.

that is not blasphemous to claim , it is all in those verses posted

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

sparkman said:

so I am suposed to be quiet and defenseless, when you post and make fun of me,

and not allowed to counter and show [there view], even though [I am not] in there church

sparkman said:

when by the way, you are in [direct violation] of Chat rules,
advertising books for sale by this false prophet yourself.

13. No unauthorized advertising or soliciting or recruiting.
Please come to our chat rooms and forums for fellowship, not to try to advertise anything (not even in private messages to our chat room visitors) or recruit people for anything. By "anything" we mean anything -- web sites, chat rooms, forums, facebook groups, churches, groups, doctrine, etc.

Also, please understand that many users have joined our chat rooms to try to solicit donations for their own charity (or some other Christian charity). There are so many charities people claim (e.g., orphanages in India, food for Africa, etc.) and we have no way to verify these things. And besides, people don't join our chat rooms to be solicited, so please refrain.

Regarding other sites, understand that we've had too many cases of new and existing chat sites -- even Christian sites -- trying to piggyback on our site. If you are trying to build up your own online fellowship (chat site or forum or facebook group or skype group whatever), leeching off of another online fellowship (by trying to recruit its users) is not the way to do it. Whether the recruiting is done directly or indirectly, the result is the same, and we reserve the right to enforce our rule.

Example of directly using CC to recruit members.
1. While on CC using any method of communication on CC to inform them of your site
or online fellowship/teaching/ministry group or venue.

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

BenFTW said:

Is his warnings sufficient

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people,
that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

we are to try everything to see if it is true, do a search of christmas real origans

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial;
and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

a memorial—not a shadow, a memorial—a feast—to be kept forever,
before the old covenent was ever made.

this feast day is commanded , and was observed in the N.T. also.
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

“And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day,
in which ye came out from Egypt ….” This was the 15th of Abib.

What the law of Moses or the Old Covenant did not bring or institute,
they cannot take away!

the feast of Unleavened Bread, as well as the Passover,
was ordained and established forever, prior to the Old Covenant.

These holy days are memorials, and twice plainly called such.

The sacrifices were typical, and they came with the law of Moses,
and they went with it. But the days on which they were held were not typical,
did not come with the law of Moses, and did not go with it.

These days were not instituted for the purpose of the sacrifices
Jeremiah 7:22-23.

The days are binding forever! As the Sabbath is a memorial,
so are the holy days!

In Acts 20:6: “[W]e sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread ….”
Paul and companions plainly had observed the Days of Unleavened Bread at Philippi.
The Holy Spirit could never have inspired such words otherwise.

also Acts 12:3: “Then were the days of unleavened bread.”
Why this, if those days had, in God’s sight, ceased to exist?

If the Sabbath was done away , why do we see it in the future verses,
everyone is to keep it then, so really it never was done away with.

prove-all · Nov 20, 2015

sparkman said:

nice fruits of [A] spirit, you are showing there.
maybe you should chew on something softer, like milk

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12

If [any man] speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received [the lively oracles] to give unto

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,
that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten
the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

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