Rapture= false teaching

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FROM ZILLA
if pre-trib were so important, as all of you pre-tribbers state, God would of not hid it from the church for 1600 years...

INTERESTING
CONSIDERING
JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD
BUT WE TODAY BELIEVE HIM TO BE GOD
 
Zilla64007 said:
common sense?... okay, lets use common sense to answer the question:

in the history of the church, post-tribulation has historical evidence and Biblical teaching starting from the early church in the 2nd Century and found in writings such as Irenaeus, Hippolytus, and Justin Martyr...
where as pre-tribulation only started it's rise in the early 19th century with Edward Irving in the Catholic Apostolic Church in Scotland...

if pre-trib were so important, as all of you pre-tribbers state, God would of not hid it from the church for 1600 years...

common sense says:
there's something wrong with pre-tribulation.
Click to expand...

You really do like twisting people's words. You asked if I have studied the doctrines. I replied, "I'll let Commonsense answer your question." Then you go on with the above. What do you think?! Even a chipmunk can figure out that I'm answering your question. Sheesh! Yes! I have!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
joint-heir said:
FROM ZILLA
if pre-trib were so important, as all of you pre-tribbers state, God would of not hid it from the church for 1600 years...

INTERESTING
CONSIDERING
JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD
BUT WE TODAY BELIEVE HIM TO BE GOD
Click to expand...
are you proclaiming that Jesus is not God in the flesh?

the Bible has something specific to say to that kind of teaching...
 
oopsies said:
You really do like twisting people's words. You asked if I have studied the doctrines. I replied, "I'll let Commonsense answer your question." Then you go on with the above. What do you think?! Even a chipmunk can figure out that I'm answering your question. Sheesh! Yes! I have!
Click to expand...
you are dodging the question I've asked you, and you have resorted to insulting me, which leads me to believe that you have done no research whatsoever.

I'm gonna ask you again:
have you done any historical research on where your secret rapture doctrine came from?
 
Zilla64007 said:
are you proclaiming that Jesus is not God in the flesh?

the Bible has something specific to say to that kind of teaching...
Click to expand...


NO
THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY
AS
JESUS IS WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE BIBLE AS GOD IN FLESH
HIS VERY WORDS IN MATTHEW 24
INDICATE
THAT WHEN THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN PREACHED TO EVERYONE
TRIBULATION WILL BEGIN
AND THAT AT THIS MOMENT AND POINT IN TIME
RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE
AND THOSE WHO GO THRU TRIBULATION
WILL NOT BE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST
 
Zilla64007 said:
you are dodging the question I've asked you, and you have resorted to insulting me, which leads me to believe that you have done no research whatsoever.

I'm gonna ask you again:
have you done any historical research on where your secret rapture doctrine came from?
Click to expand...

You are asking a pointless question because I already answered you with "Sheesh! Yes! I have!" So now you are also blind and too proud to accept that my comments are true and are not insults. :)
 
if you have answered it, oopsies, then point me to the post where you did, and i will gladly shut up.
until then, you have shown me nothing.
 
joint-heir said:
NO
THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY
AS
JESUS IS WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE BIBLE AS GOD IN FLESH
HIS VERY WORDS IN MATTHEW 24
INDICATE
THAT WHEN THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN PREACHED TO EVERYONE
TRIBULATION WILL BEGIN
AND THAT AT THIS MOMENT AND POINT IN TIME
RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE
AND THOSE WHO GO THRU TRIBULATION
WILL NOT BE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST
Click to expand...
oh, okay, so those who suffer for the name of Christ are not part of the church...

so i guess you see yourself as not part of the church, because you believe that you will never suffer tribulation... even though the Word of God says differently...
 
Zilla64007 said:
oh, okay, so those who suffer for the name of Christ are not part of the church...

so i guess you see yourself as not part of the church, because you believe that you will never suffer tribulation... even though the Word of God says differently...
Click to expand...



WE ARE SUFFERING NOW
IN MANY PLACES LIVES ARE BEING TAKEN AS THE RESULT OF LIVING FOR GOD
SO MANY ARE DYING NOW
IN FACT
NOT EVERYONE WILL SUFFER
BUT ALSO REMEMBER
TO SUFFER FOR CHRIST DOESNT ALWAYS MEAN TORMENT AND DEATH

TRIBULATION IS GOD's WRATH

HIS OWN ELECT BRIDE
HAS NO NEED TO SUFFER THRU GOD's WRATH
AFTER GOING THE THRU YEARS OF SATAN AND THE WORLDS WRATH

THE WRATH GOD WILL BE FORCING UPON MAN
WILL BE FOR THOSE WHO OPPOSE GOD
NOT FOR THOSE
WHO LOVE AND LIVE FOR GOD
 
you said read post #1582...

oopsies said:
You really do like twisting people's words. You asked if I have studied the doctrines. I replied, "I'll let Commonsense answer your question." Then you go on with the above. What do you think?! Even a chipmunk can figure out that I'm answering your question. Sheesh! Yes! I have!
Click to expand...

this says nothing about the origin of pre-tribulation, the birth of pre-tribulation, the man who invented it, who supported it, or any historical documents which state that pre-tribulation had a dominant position in the early church.

YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE QUESTION, SO MY QUESTION REMAINS...
if you CAN'T answer it, then simply admit that.

simply saying "Sheesh! Yes! I have!" doesn't prove anything... what it does prove is your lack of knowledge pertaining to the history of dispensational premillennialism.
 
Zilla64007 said:
you ever studied the history of this doctrine, oopsies?
Click to expand...

That is your question. I have already answered it. As for the other ones, I answered them with a different post at the beginning of the thread which you, being a newcomer to the thread, are too lazy to search and read. As I have said, post the verses or your viewpoint and then let God do the convincing.

But I think you like being the "right" person. I think you like the attention. I think you like trying to prove people wrong. So you go on right ahead. You just want an opportunity to continue to throw verses in my face. Sorry, but you're not going to get the satisfaction of doing that. Enjoy. I will not be responding to any of your replies. :) You have fun creating a conversation with yourself.
 
Zilla64007 said:
really, tribulation is God's wrath?... where's that Bible verse?
Click to expand...
Actually the great tribulation is not the wrath of God is is the wrath of satan rev 12:12. God does not make war with the saints, it is satan making war with us. God pours his wrath out on the wicked and the beast and the false prophet. we will see this happen unfortunatley.
This is a doctrine of Christ Jesus said: Matthew 13:36-43 (KJV) 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; (= this age) and the reapers are the angels. (1st) 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2nd) 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The righteous shall see the wicked rooted out of the land of the living - Psalm 52:3-6 3 Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah. 4 Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue. 5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah. 6The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:
Jesus said the wicked & the righteous grow together until the end of this world & (The wicked are gathered first)

This is a doctrine of Christ Jesus tells us: the wheat (children of the kingdom) and the tares (the wicked) grow together until the time of harvest Matt 13: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (children of the kingdom) into my barn.
 
Zilla64007 said:
really, tribulation is God's wrath?... where's that Bible verse?
Click to expand...


IN ORDER FOR THE ANTICHRIST TO COME AND DO WHAT IS WRITTEN
HAS TO BE FROM THE WILL OF GOD
SINCE THE ANTICHRIST WON'T APPEAR UNTIL TRIBULATION
THIS IS DESIGNED SPECIFLY BY GOD
SO TRIBULATION IS GOD's WRATH

THIS IS WHY GOD WONT POUR HIS WRATH OUT ONTO HIS BRIDE


FOR ANYONT TO BELIEVE THIS
YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE
A
SADIST
ONLY SOMEONE SADISTIC WANTS TO CLAIM THE NEED TO SUFFER
TO BE A SADIST IS SINFUL
 
stillearning said:
Actually the great tribulation is not the wrath of God is is the wrath of satan rev 12:12. God does not make war with the saints, it is satan making war with us. God pours his wrath out on the wicked and the beast and the false prophet. we will see this happen unfortunatley.
This is a doctrine of Christ Jesus said: Matthew 13:36-43 (KJV) 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; (= this age) and the reapers are the angels.(1st) 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2nd) 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The righteous shall see the wicked rooted out of the land of the living - Psalm 52:3-6 3 Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah. 4 Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue. 5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah. 6The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:
Jesus said the wicked & the righteous grow together until the end of this world& (The wicked are gathered first)

This is a doctrine of Christ Jesus tells us: the wheat (children of the kingdom) and the tares (the wicked) grow together until the time of harvest Matt 13: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (children of the kingdom) into my barn.
Click to expand...


IGNORANCE COMES IN BIG BRIGHT LETTERING

WHO ALLOWS SATAN TO GO TO WAR...?
GOD

WHY...?
TO DEFEAT SATAN FOR THE FINAL TIME


I HATE TO BURST YA BUBBLE
BUT
SATAN HAS BEEN IN WAR WITH THE SAINTS SINCE THE DAY
HE SINNED AGAINST GOD AND WAS CAST OUT
SO
GET A CLUE
 
oopsies said:
That is your question. I have already answered it. As for the other ones, I answered them with a different post at the beginning of the thread which you, being a newcomer to the thread, are too lazy to search and read. As I have said, post the verses or your viewpoint and then let God do the convincing.

But I think you like being the "right" person. I think you like the attention. I think you like trying to prove people wrong. So you go on right ahead. You just want an opportunity to continue to throw verses in my face. Sorry, but you're not going to get the satisfaction of doing that. Enjoy. I will not be responding to any of your replies. :) You have fun creating a conversation with yourself.
Click to expand...
no you have NOT answered it... and it's not about being the right person... it's about spreading the truth about the Word of God... and all you've done is show how childish you are

I've been in this thread before many, many times, oopsies... i've discussed the fallacies and loopholes of this sick satanic doctrine, and the origins of how it originated in Scotland in 1827, but I bet you didn't know that... like many other dispensational premillennialists, you refuse to do your research because you think you're higher than everyone else... even many of the pastors and preachers who contributed to the creation of the Scofield Reference Bible finally came to realize how unbiblical this doctrine really is...

time for you to grow up.
 
MahogonySnail said:
some people believe God revealed new things to us 1600 years later... "progressive revelation".
Click to expand...
it's more along the lines of "gnostic" revelation... you must go into the word with a preconceived thought, so that you can come to a "new" idea in which all truth will be revealed...

it's a big load of crap.
 
Let me comment on your use of the word "wrath" in Revelation 11:18. Firstly, the use of the word "wrath" in that verse is not the first occurrence of this word in Revelation. Secondly, a subsequent use of the word "wrath" refers to the seven last plagues (bowl judgments), which will complete God's wrath (Revelation 15:1); however, the trumpet judgments will be the initial phase of His wrath.

The first usage of the word "wrath" is in Revelation 6:16,17, at which time the wrath of God will be clearly imminent to those on the earth. This will be known to them soon after the opening of the Sixth Seal (Revelation 6:12,13), which directly parallels Jesus' description in His Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:29). Jesus described the (unbelieving) nations of the earth as mourning (24:30), which I believe will be intense regret that they are about to be left behind to face the wrath of God.
After writing about the Sixth Seal events, John briefly described how the 144,000 Israelites will be sealed for protection. This is followed immediately by his observation of the "great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:9). Here is a picture of the raptured saints in front of the Lamb (Jesus), seated on His throne.
 
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