I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[valiant]

No, that is not what binding and loosing means. It's a rabbinical term. Look it up on a Jewish site, you won't take my word for it.

look sonny I'm a theological graduate. I know precisely what binding and loosing means. but Peter never commented on the Law or tried to change it. So he didn't see it that way. He saw it as meaning that he and the other Apostles could make clear what men should believe and how the church should be disciplined, a right given ONLY TO THEM

Jesus gave The Keys ONLY to Peter. You are saying Jesus gave out 12 sets of keys, with no scriptural support for your invention.

the keys were stated to be for binding and loosing, a right given to all the Apostles (Matt 18.18). yes in those days keys were given to ALL Jewish teachers.


.

It wasn't failing, God transferred authority to keep it from failing. You simply cannot read. You are just being stupid. No, and I never said they were. Keep reversing everything I say and I will put you in my ignorasium where you can play with the Whore-duh-Babble-on psychos.

my, what big words.

Chapter and verse please. You are saying that Daniel (2:24) and Jeremiah (33:17) are false prophets.

there will be no earthly kingdom God's kingly rule is already established worldwide. It is a spiritual kingdom

I was going to give you one more chance, but I've changed my mind. You cannot read, or twist everything I say. Y

AWWW give me one more chance lol I love debunking you

 

[epostle]

well I for one am Baptist along with all New Testament churches.

Yes, independent and self governing. "with all New Testament churches" assumes that "New Testament churches" are all independent and self governing. How about you give me the name and address of your pastor so I can send him copies of your posts. Never mind, I still have to go to settings and excommunicate you.

 

[Magenta]

You cannot read, or twist everything I say. You have the marks of a bully; you have no manners and are uncivilized. Your replies are irrational and condescending, and you pretend to know what you are talking about when in fact you know very little. Your hateful persecution of what you think Catholicism teaches is based on blind prejudice, not facts, and nothing short of the power of the Holy Spirit can heal it. Good bye.

​

..
​

. .

 

[valiant]

Yes, independent and self governing. "with all New Testament churches" assumes that "New Testament churches" are all independent and self governing.

All New Testament churches were independent and self governing. Both Paul and Peter made this clear in their letters.

How about you give me the name and address of your pastor so I can send him copies of your posts. Never mind, I still have to go to settings and excommunicate you.

LOL why should I? He would agree with me. Oh dear, are you going to excommunicate me? Don't worry. Satan has already done that lol.

 

[Utah]

yeah right. {rolling eyes]



Yes, I'm sure you do..... behind the protection of your computer screen.



Sorry, I no longer wear diapers, I like to boys to swing free.



But you are.... hiding behind your computer screen.
　


Pax Christi

You're indeed right that there is safety afforded people with online anonymity, but I don't need that safety; you can't even begin to imagine who I run with and who trust me with their safety. My homeys are my brothers who welcome me, White as I am, because I'm trustworthy in all facets of life. When a man knows you speak from the heart, as much as he may disagree with you, he knows he can trust you with his life. The same can't be said of double-speak people who cower to political correctness.

 

[Utah]

My apologies to all for this statement, (was having a locker room moment) especally to the women folk, It was inappropriate for this forum.

What I should have said to utah was: "So far,you are the only one within this forum that feels that way."


Again.... my deepest apologies.

Pax Christi

It takes a real man to apologize. Much respect to you, fordman.

 

[Magenta]

What I should have said to utah was: "So far,you are the only one within this forum that feels that way."

In your delusional dreams, maybe. In reality, the fact that you give yourself permission to call people names while erupting in a storm of self righteous indignation when the same is done to you speaks volumes of your lack of integrity, especially since you pretend you were not being derogatory in the first place while calling someone two decades your senior immature.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Mat. 24:10-13 ( And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. ver.11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. ver.12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ver.13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.)

 

[Utah]

Mat. 24:10-13 ( And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. ver.11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. ver.12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ver.13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.)

Amen to this. My faith in Jesus shall always endure, however loving people who are difficult to love is indeed is my biggest shortfall. I pray God will strengthen me with this.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Amen to this. My faith in Jesus shall always endure, however loving people who are difficult to love is indeed is my biggest shortfall. I pray God will strengthen me with this.

I hear ya Utah. Mine is false teachers.

 

[Vdp]

It was the Catholic Church that hijacked the Scriptures and added to them the books written by Satan that backed up some of the Doctrines from the Catholic Church.

God in the 1500's took away the Bible from the Catholics, removed the books written by Satan, and returned the True Scriptures to His Children.

Give it up epostle. Give it up fordman. You Catholics are not fighting against us True Christians, you are actually fighting against the Holy Spirit who IS God. It was the Holy Spirit who Inspired men to write the Scriptures so we can read and study the Word of God.

It was Satan, not the Holy Spirit, who wrote the Apocrypha books that were forced into the Bible by Corrupted Catholics who did not follow God.

Until I am convicted by Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, I do not accept the authority of Pope Francis and the Traditions and Doctrines of the Catholic Church. My conscience is captive to the very Word of God, and I cannot and will not accept anything from the Catholic Church!

 

[GaryA]

The truth is there is NO intercessor between the God the Father and us EXCEPT Jesus Christ. The curtain has been torn, we don't NEED a priest, we can go directly to Jesus, AND ONLY Jesus, to be cleansed of sin.

"A slight correction..."

[ The Bible teaches... ]

Anyone who is a born-again Christian is their own priest - and can go directly to the Father -- because of Jesus.

The only other-than-themselves priest a born-again Christian needs is the High Priest -- Jesus Himself.

Agreed. Sorry. I misspoke.

PennEd, I did not write this to correct you in a "call you out" kind of way. You do not need to apologize.

What you said is true; what I said was intended to clarify the "specific detail" of that particular 'truth'...

I do not believe that you misspoke. You told the truth. Only, I thought that your understanding of this particular point-of-scripture might need a little "refining"...

I thank God for your conversion. You can be a great witness to Catholics who do not yet understand those things which you now do...

My [ main ] intentions for writing that post were two-fold:

~ To help you and others better understand the "finer detail" of this truth in case you did not already.

~ To specifically point out this truth because of, and for the sake of, the subject matter of this thread.

The Bible does, in fact, teach this truth. Everyone, including Catholics, need to understand this truth.

 

[GaryA]

In fact, no, the Bible doesn't teach this, "that any Christian is [his] own priest." If this were the case, then why was there a need for Christian ministers and teachers, the Apostles and the elders and bishops they appointed? There are certainly duties in the bodies of Christ for Christian ministers, for shepherds for His flock, that they should obey (cf. Hebrews 13:17). While it is quite true that Jesus opened the way for all Christians to have a personal relationship with the follower, that does not abrogate the need for Christian ministers or the necessary duties that they perform in the Body.

In fact, yes, the Bible does teach this...

In this context [ of discussion ], we are talking about forgiveness of sin.

Any person can forgive another for a sin against them -- but, no person can forgive another for a sin against God -- only God can do that.

God - and only God - can forgive sin against Him.

No elder / bishop / pastor / minister / teacher can forgive sin against God. It is not in any way in their 'duties' to do so.

( 'bishop' and 'pastor' are identically the same )

A 'bishop' and a 'priest' are not the same.

The Old Testament priesthood - which was never actually able to forgive sin against God ( read the book of Hebrews ) - was done away with at the Cross.

Since the resurrection of Christ, the only valid 'priesthood' exists by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers - with Christ as the High Priest. No other priest is necessary or required - or even valid...

The Catholic priest-system is an attempt by Satan to 'usurp' this 'gift' of God to born-again believers. Indeed, Catholicism as-a-whole is an attempt by Satan to 'usurp' the position of -- to "be" [ a replacement for ] -- the Holy Spirit.

The only valid priesthood is a 'spiritual' one; there is no longer any 'physical' ( worldly ) priesthood.

 

[GaryA]

I explained how Luther and many other Protestants obscure this verse with an overemphasis of literal-ism, rendering 2 Tim 3:16 to mere words on a page.

.
.
.

There is the relationship: the Scriptures are a tool for "teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," but who is to use this tool for these purposes? That is, who has the authority to teach, reproof, correct, and train others in righteousness? The "man of God" has this authority.

I believe that the majority of Christians do not "properly" understand what 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is actually saying:


2 Timothy 3:

[SUP]16[/SUP] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [SUP]17[/SUP] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


In the context of the passage, these verses are actually talking about the "profitability" of scripture for teaching SELF -- not for teaching OTHERS. The proof of this is verse 17. These verses - in the 'grammar of the language' - are indicating that scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness ... for Timothy -- so that he may be "throughly furnished unto all good works"...

It follows that anything that is good for teaching SELF is also good for teaching OTHERS; however, the "point" and "command" of these verses IS NOT teaching OTHERS ( "in particular" ) -- but rather, teaching SELF. ( i.e., allowing yourself to be taught by the scriptures )

The specific focus of these verses is ---------- the scriptures teaching -----> the 'man of God' ---------- NOT ---------- the 'man of God' teaching -----> others...

The "sense and tense" of these verses is that scripture is profitable as:

~ doctrine for SELF
~ reproof of SELF
~ correction of SELF
~ instruction in righteousness for SELF

People who make a claim that these verses [ specifically ] give them the right to instruct others need to understand this...

( I am not saying that no one has the right to instruct others; please understand the context... )


"Food for thought..."

 

[GaryA]

Yes.... So we Catholics are as you say "True Christians" for we are born again, the "bible way", at our Baptisim.

Baptism has nothing to do with [ the 'obtaining' of ] being born-again. It is only an after-the-fact symbolic reference to it.

In case you didn't know.... The greek word in the orginal text for "again" is "anothen", which can more properly be translated as "from above". So if we look at this terminology using "You must be born from ABOVE" instead of "You must be born AGAIN", it takes on a slightly differnt meaning. Verse five gives us a clue when it says..."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, hee cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Exactly: 'born-again' => "born from above" => "born of the Holy Spirit"
　

Born of water 'and' the Spirit is a clarification from Jesus on what it means to be born from above. Water and the spirit, when combined in the bible, means a new beginning. In Gen. 1;1, we see the spirit moving over the water, creating a new earth. Later on, when Noah was trying to see if there was land appering, he sent out a dove over the water, to see if the new earth was ready. And while the dove wasn't the Holy Spirit, it cerntaily was a precursor to the Baptisim of Jesus, where we see the Holy Spirit descend as a dove over the waters of Jesus' baptisim.

No.

born of 'water' => 'physical' birth
born of 'spirit' => 'spiritual' birth

Proof of this is in verse 6:


John 3:

[SUP]6[/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh { 'water' }; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. { 'spirit' }


~


Matthew 3:

[SUP]16[/SUP] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [SUP]17[/SUP] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Mark 1:

[SUP]10[/SUP] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: [SUP]11[/SUP] And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Jesus was no longer in the water when the Spirit / dove descended upon Him.

The 'dove' was all-about-Jesus. It had nothing to do with the water. It was a "mark of identification" / "special annointing" of / from the Father...

Jesus had no sins, and therefore didn't need to be baptized, of course, but His baptisim sanctified the waters of baptisim for us all, and shows us what really happens during our baptisim......... The Holy Spirit descends from heaven to our bodies, His temple. Clearly, being born again, or being born from above, is a reference to our baptisim, which washes away our sins (Acts 22:16) and saves us (1Pet.3:21.)

No.

 

[Vdp]

Excommunication was made up by the Catholic Church to scare people into believing Salvation is found only by being in the Corrupted Catholic Church epostle.

Show us epostle Book, Chapter, and verse where God says being in the Catholic Church is a requirement of receiving Salvation!

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We become SAVED through Faith and By Grace!

So tell me epostle why do you HATE God so much? What has God done to you that deserves your teaching lies of the Catholic Church as Truths from God?

Since Salvation IS received ONLY by Faith and Grace then being excommunicated from the Catholic Church is a JOKE! This proves you epostle do not follow Jesus nor do you have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Every Catholic who teaches excommunication will be thrown into the Fire. The Fire here is the Lake of Fire. Is this what you really want epostle? Keep on the road you are on and you will be tossed into the Fire by God.

 

[ThomistColin]

Excommunication was made up by the Catholic Church to scare people into believing Salvation is found only by being in the Corrupted Catholic Church epostle.

We become SAVED through Faith and By Grace!

First, re-read about how Jesus spoke about casting people out, as did Paul.
Second, "We are saved by grace through faith, and not of ourselves, lest any should boast." And "Faith without works is dead." And "Thus we see we are not justified by faith alone." Every single one of these teachings is truth revealed by God.

 

[ukok102nak]

Luke 17:3
“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:4
“And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day comes back to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

:smoke: and this is not coming from us but unto
our lord jesus christ

God bless us all always


:ty:

 

[Vdp]

Where in the Scriptures ThomistColin did God ever say we are not Justified by Faith?

Have any here noticed most of the answers the Catholics give us are NOT backed up with Scriptures?

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Galatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

You cannot be Justified by Works ThomistColin like you Catholics teach. We ARE Justified by Jesus Christ, not by working for our Faith like the Catholic Church teaches.

Its a Mortal sin ThomistColin to teach the opposite of what God says. From most of the answers I have seen on this chat site proves the Catholics like ThomistColin, epostle, Fordman, do not want the Truth from God, all they want is to Worship Mary as their God.

Do you really think God does not know the state of your Heart ThomistColin?

Matthew 15:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "
Teaching that we are Justified by Works and Faith proves you are teaching the commandments of men as a Doctrine from God. In vain you now Worship God ThomistColin because God refuses to listen to your prayers.

Are you really that blind that you cannot see you are fighting against God? You are not fighting against me, you are actually calling God a liar with your very words that we are Justified by Works!

I would tell you to repent, but I know its a waste of time. Even if Jesus Himself was to bring you the Truth you would still reject it for the teachings of Satan and the Catholic Church.

 

[valiant]

First, re-read about how Jesus spoke about casting people out, as did Paul.
Second, "We are saved by grace through faith, and not of ourselves, lest any should boast." And "Faith without works is dead." And "Thus we see we are not justified by faith alone." Every single one of these teachings is truth revealed by God.

but you have to use discernment' Paul was speaking about being justified before God.. James was talking abut being justified before men.

So we ARE justified by faith alone. God does not have to wait and see if it produces fruit, It is only men who have to wait and see if there is fruit.