Turkey downs Russian Jet

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
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#62
Haha. Maybe! Give us a king....give us a king!
Give us THEE KING...

Revelation 19:16 (HCSB) And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#65
Russia has to return the favor ...with the propaganda they are putting out now, looks like they are going to have to do something to show strength.... Maybe Turkey will apologize..if not ? Russia will get pay-back in my view.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
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#66
She loves me, she doesn't, she loves me, she doesn't. ..

The Jerusalem Post

While US President Barack Obama publicly expressed support for Ankara's right to defend its sovereignty after Turkey shot down a Russian plane it says strayed into its airspace on Tuesday, US officials reportedly believe Turkey needlessly escalated tensions.

CBS News on Tuesday quoted anonymous US officials as blaming Turkey for overreacting to a minor violation of its airspace.

Russia's defense ministry said one of its Su-24 fighter jets had been downed in Syria and that "for the entire duration of the flight, the aircraft was exclusively over Syrian territory," a suggestion Turkey denied.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#68
Russia has to return the favor ...with the propaganda they are putting out now, looks like they are going to have to do something to show strength.... Maybe Turkey will apologize..if not ? Russia will get pay-back in my view.
And if Russia pays back NATO is obligated to step in.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,378
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#69
Not if they attack the Turkey backed rebels in Syria......just across the border.....
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#70
And if Russia pays back NATO is obligated to step in.
I asked a friend of mine in international law about this. Apparently, most NATO provisions are so broad that you could drive a semi through their loopholes.

A central pillar of Putin's foreign policy involves driving a wedge between NATO countries. He knows that Turkey is Islamist outlier of the group that other nations would reject defending should he force their hand. That would also cause people to doubt the viability of NATO as a whole, you see.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#71
Not if they attack the Turkey backed rebels in Syria......just across the border.....
I thought we were talking about payback to Turkey, not the rebels. Putin already has been targeting the rebels.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,378
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#72
Honestly, I don't know why Turkey was ever allowed into the NATO Alliance. I can only speculate it was because they had nuclear weapons and NATO wanted to have some influence over them?

Turkey has pretty much always been a wild card in the region.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,378
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#73
I thought we were talking about payback to Turkey, not the rebels. Putin already has been targeting the rebels.
Not these specific rebels as I understand it........and it is a way for Putin to save face and to launch a strike against Turkey and it's interests in the area. I suspect it will happen fairly soon. We shall see.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#74
Sure, Putin is making a bet with this. All-out war isn't his goal though all-out war could happen. He's a Clausewitzian incrementalist who understands how to manipulate the political conditions and legal framework of his day to accomplish a line of very real-world bound objectives (see blood and iron).

I read this whole spat with Turkey as him saying.

1. You cannot compete with us in the region. Stop.

2. NATO is a sham. Constituent nations might as well throw the idea out the window.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
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#75
Honestly, I don't know why Turkey was ever allowed into the NATO Alliance. I can only speculate it was because they had nuclear weapons and NATO wanted to have some influence over them?

Turkey has pretty much always been a wild card in the region.
Turkey was a fairly benign socialist state like many Muslim countries at the time. They also happened to occupy a strip of land where we could conveniently place nuclear missiles rather than shoot them around the world (think Cuba).

You're absolutely right, though. NATO should have stricter standards for membership and this problem definitely brings that issue to the forefront.

Rather than let this fracture NATO, we could potentially let it reinvigorate NATO with a purpose. I think Turkey is currently getting a pass because it isn't a Western country, but that could change very fast.

Putin knows this too. I think he also knows that he won't get everything he wants, but hey! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,378
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#79
I would like to take this moment to thank everyone for the numerous links to various Media Reports.

As well, I would like to remind everyone that when it comes to people trusting the Media, the Media has about a 9% Approval rating.......... :)

The phrase........ "grain of salt" comes to mind
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#80
Ya but... my media is better than your media.